Let me break this post into two parts. Part one is a rant about my favorite race. Part two will be my talk about a new campaigne I am running using Pathfinder.
/Half-Orc Rant on
I like the half-orc race. I always have. Misfits, outcasts, tough folk who need to earn their place in the world though strength, dedication, and skill. I have been playing D&D so long that I own 1st ed books with toys 'r' us price stickers on them so I guess you can call me old school.
Being old school I recall the half-Orc in 1st ed as fighters, assassins, and clerics and of course multiclass combos there of. Way back in the day they and half-elves were the only two races able to be clerics. Later with Unearthed Arcana others could but first there was the half races. Another improtant part was Orcs used to be lawful evil, they were tyrants and bullys. Not chaotic engines of destruction they become in 3.X. But out comes 3.X and it was good, the games were fun and the system solid. But my half-orc was left changed and angry about it. His favorite class was barbarian, clearly signifying his anger over the changes he raged against his fate.
Now though in Pathfinder they are allowed to chose between Barbarian and Druid. See I am ok with Barbarian, I would prefer rogue or fighter, but ok. But that I would assume would be for half-orcs raised mostly by orcs. But for half-orcs raised by humans wouldn't they be more inclided to either Cleric or fighter with their stats being what they are? I mean who else would take them in but the church, sure druids might, but much more likely would be clerics.
I would like to see their classes become barbarian and cleric. The first class a nod to the anger over their change to chaotic and the second to honor their traditional place in the game. I ask this because too much of what is wrong with 4e is a lack of respect to the orginal game, let Pathfinder blaze it's path showing it's respect to the classics with this simple yet I think well needed change.
Thanks for listening to my little rant. I do love the Pathfinder system, I really like what it has done to each class and race. But why not aim for perfection I figure.
/Half-Orc Rant off
Panjara is my own world. They are starting in the far north area and simply looking to make a little money. They hired on for a troll hunt and then things got complicated.
I am looking to convert it over from 3.5 to pathfinder. Right now we have a paladin, fighter, rogue, druid, bard, and ranger in the party. Each seems like they will be improved with the change of editions. What if any issues do you think I should look for? (party level is 4 right now, the ranger is a dwarf, the bard a grey elf, the druid a half-elf, the others are all humans.)
From here on my posts will detail how things are going. We will begin play this coming saturday 4/18/2009 and I will keep a running log to explain what rules we found issues with, what rules we really liked, and maybe even a little bit of the story as it unfolds. Thanks for taking your time to read this, and please input anything you think might help.
Way back in the day they and half-elves were the only two races able to be clerics.
Thank the gods that has changed :P
Now though in Pathfinder they are allowed to chose between Barbarian and Druid. See I am ok with Barbarian, I would prefer rogue or fighter, but ok. But that I would assume would be for half-orcs raised mostly by orcs.
Or halfies raised by humans who don't fit in. They go savage. They're not accepted in the fancy fighter schools. But they know about being angry at things. Try be an outcast for a while. In our world, half-orcs would play counter-strike and do killing sprees in schools.
But for half-orcs raised by humans wouldn't they be more inclided to either Cleric or fighter with their stats being what they are?
Barbarians - fighters. Both need wisdom equally. In fact, I'd say barbarians need it more. They do things like get survival ranks and weird stuff like that.
Same with druids and clerics. They both need strength and wisdom, and neither really needs intelligence. But druids might just get more wis-based skills.
I mean who else would take them in but the church, sure druids might, but much more likely would be clerics.
Only good and/or chaotic churches. And even then, they might prefer not to, when the community is too much plagued by orcs and doesn't need reminders of what they do around.
Druids don't care about that stuff. They care about nature. All humanoids are bad to them.
I am looking to convert it over from 3.5 to pathfinder. Right now we have a paladin, fighter, rogue, druid, bard, and ranger in the party. Each seems like they will be improved with the change of editions. What if any issues do you think I should look for? (party level is 4 right now, the ranger is a dwarf, the bard a grey elf, the druid a half-elf, the others are all humans.)
Well, druids' wild shape works differently now, but the 3e druid doesn't have it at that level yet, so it's not a problem.
The rest will get a lot of nice new options, and the playing field will be a lot more level.
There's no official PF stats for grey elves, so I suggest using standard elf stats (+2 int, dex, -2 con), which means he'll become a bit stronger.
Or halfies raised by humans who don't fit in. They go savage. They're not accepted in the fancy fighter schools. But they know about being angry at things. Try be an outcast for a while. In our world, half-orcs would play counter-strike and do killing sprees in schools.
Now though in Pathfinder they are allowed to chose between Barbarian and Druid. See I am ok with Barbarian, I would prefer rogue or fighter, but ok. But that I would assume would be for half-orcs raised mostly by orcs.
Savage only if somewhere that makes sense. Doing so in a city isn't wise. If nothing else half-orcs possess a low cunning of sorts, they look for places their skills will make them survivable and successful. Either a militant church, mercanary band, thieves guild or other places that prize strength. The only way to assume all half-orcs are either barbarians or druids is to assume they all grow up in a wild areas. It pre-supposes that half-orcs can only be successful in the wild. That seems like quiet a leap.
But for half-orcs raised by humans wouldn't they be more inclided to either Cleric or fighter with their stats being what they are?Barbarians - fighters. Both need wisdom equally. In fact, I'd say barbarians need it more. They do things like get survival ranks and weird stuff like that.
Same with druids and clerics. They both need strength and wisdom, and neither really needs intelligence. But druids might just get more wis-based skills.
Wisdom is being able to adapt to your surroundings. Thus in the wild barbarian, but in an urban area a fighter. But f we are only talking about a warrior class that needs wisdom well clearly they should be rangers or paladins. Neither fit but both really more on wisdom then the barbarian or fighter. So are you suggesting half-orcs should be paladins and/or rangers instead?
I mean who else would take them in but the church, sure druids might, but much more likely would be clerics.Only good and/or chaotic churches. And even then, they might prefer not to, when the community is too much plagued by orcs and doesn't need reminders of what they do around.
Druids don't care about that stuff. They care about nature. All humanoids are bad to them.
Druids then would be least likely to take them in since they all hate humanoids....not that I think that is true but it seems your arguement against druids taking them in.
Lawful, Chaotic, Good all would have orphanges and likely all take him in. Never mind neutral ones that just on a whim do so, or evil ones looking for strong soldiers to raise.
The half-orc thing is up for debate, surely you can write them to suggest barbarian and druid, I would however ask that they be written to honor the past, and remember where D&D came from. Cleric or Fighter instead to represent their being raised in human society also makes more sense I think. Thus I would say let barbarian and cleric be their choices, barbarian implies raised amoung the orcs, cleric means amoung the humans.
Well, druids' wild shape works differently now, but the 3e druid...
I am looking to convert it over from 3.5 to pathfinder. Right now we have a paladin, fighter, rogue, druid, bard, and ranger in the party. Each seems like they will be improved with the change of editions. What if any issues do you think I should look for? (party level is 4 right now, the ranger is a dwarf, the bard a grey elf, the druid a half-elf, the others are all humans.)
Will read that over a few times to make sure I have it down.
One problem one of the players is having in 3.5 is that his rogue can't seem to be effective in combat. He misses so much he is getting frustrated. The bard seems more capable in melee then he is and it's driving him nuts.
My suggestion to him was try weapon finess(he has a 16 dex). I also suggested TWF but so far he's thinking weapon focus short sword. The bard who is also high on dex uses TWF and weapon finess in the end having about the same bonus to hit as the rogue but at level 4 twice the attacks. ((Ok he hits for low damage but still he hits, the rogue hits for high damage when he hits, but he never seems to in his mind.))
So any suggestions in Pathfinder that can help my player along?
((Specifics of the rogue are
Human level 4
str 12
dex 16
con 14
int 12
wis 10
cha 10
))
The only way to assume all half-orcs are either barbarians or druids is to assume they all grow up in a wild areas. It pre-supposes that half-orcs can only be successful in the wild. That seems like quiet a leap.
I'm not assuming that all half-orcs are either barbarians or druids. That would only work if all other classes were restricted and unavailable to them. 3e doesn't restrict classes.
They're more likely to be barbarians or druids than other classes, but it's not even a huge difference, much less an exclusive deal.
Wisdom is being able to adapt to your surroundings.
Actually, wisdom is awareness and willpower.
Thus in the wild barbarian, but in an urban area a fighter.
Dwarves get a bonus in wisdom, too. And there's other races in other sources, too, like avariel (those winged elves). None get more favoured classes.
But f we are only talking about a warrior class that needs wisdom well clearly they should be rangers or paladins.
Actually, that is not really true:
First, paladins don't need wisdom - not anymore. They use charisma for their casting, and with strong will saves (and charisma on will saves in addition to wisdom), they don't need that much wisdom in that area, either.
Second, Barbarians are the wilderness survival types, and get both perception and survival - twice as many wis skills a fighter gets.
Druids then would be least likely to take them in since they all hate humanoids....not that I think that is true but it seems your arguement against druids taking them in.
My argument is that they hate everyone equally - or just don't care. They don't have to deal with social preassures or stuff like that.
It's a Vimes thing.
The half-orc thing is up for debate, surely you can write them to suggest barbarian and druid, I would however ask that they be written to honor the past, and remember where D&D came from.
There's also the place they have in recent D&D to remember. PF is 3.5e revised.
Orcs won't be turned lawful (there's goblinoids for LE, and hobgoblins are the millitant, tyrannous types.), and I don't think they will get cleric back as favoured classes.
Or, rather, they don't get any fixed FC - if I remember correctly, everyone will get to choose any one class (and humans getting two).
One problem one of the players is having in 3.5 is that his rogue can't seem to be effective in combat. He misses so much he is getting frustrated. The bard seems more capable in melee then he is and it's driving him nuts.
My suggestion to him was try weapon finess(he has a 16 dex). I also suggested TWF but so far he's thinking weapon focus short sword. The bard who is also high on dex uses TWF and weapon finess in the end having about the same bonus to hit as the rogue but at level 4 twice the attacks. ((Ok he hits for low damage but still he hits, the rogue hits for high damage when he hits, but he never seems to in his mind.))
So any suggestions in Pathfinder that can help my player along?
((Specifics of the rogue are
Human level 4
str 12
dex 16
con 14
int 12
wis 10
cha 10))
Definetly weapon finesse. Note that there's a rogue talent, Finesse Rogue, that grants you weapon finesse as a bonus fat. There's also Combat Trick, which gives you one combat (i.e. fighter bonus) feat, which could be used for weapon focus. (But take a look at the other rogue tricks first, there's some really nice ones among them.
I'd take the weapon finesse first, and later weapon focus is it is still needed.
Other than that, how well did he roll?
On a personal note: Weapon finesse doesn't exist in my games - it's something everyone can do.
Or, rather, they don't get any fixed FC - if I remember correctly, everyone will get to choose any one class (and humans getting two).
See that alone fixes my issue with the half-orc favored classes being limited to barbarian and druids. I'm then totally ok with the races.
See I'm easy, and I can play my half-orc as lawful and choose cleric as FC and be just plain happy.
As an aside where do I find the most up to date form of Pathfinder? I am just using the downloadable PDF right now. I find it rather excellent, I truly do with only small issues I figure I might as well post about just incase it resonates with others.
Weapon finess for everyone? That's pretty powerful. Do you allow strength added to damage when dex is being used to hit? I do but am leary of it.
Speaking of small things. How about moving great club to a simple weapon. It's stats are poor compared to other twohanded martial weapons but they would fit in well with simple two handers and it would fill the void that simply two handers have, no big dice weapon only a large crit multiplier one. Plus really, it's a big club, not exactly the most difficult or complex weapon alive there.
His die rolls have been poor to inconsistant. He is comparing himself to the fighter with weapon focus, a master crafted longsword and a 16 strength, and the paladin with pretty close to the same set up. The bard getting in a few nicks is just adding to his grief over always missing.
As an aside where do I find the most up to date form of Pathfinder? I am just using the downloadable PDF right now.
There is not an "official updated version", other than what you'll find in your "My Downloads" section at the top (specific web enhancements).
However, some things have been posted to the boards, and some things have been inferred from comments (the change to favored class is among those - we'll see the final version in August).
Here's a thread that has compiled most of the official playtest material though: Beta Reference Thread
Weapon finess for everyone? That's pretty powerful. Do you allow strength added to damage when dex is being used to hit? I do but am leary of it.
Yes, it's not overpowered. Overpowered is allowing *Dex* to damage when finessing.
As an aside where do I find the most up to date form of Pathfinder? I am just using the downloadable PDF right now.There is not an "official updated version", other than what you'll find in your "My Downloads" section at the top (specific web enhancements).
However, some things have been posted to the boards, and some things have been inferred from comments (the change to favored class is among those - we'll see the final version in August).
Here's a thread that has compiled most of the official playtest material though: Beta Reference Thread
I've already pre-ordered the final version, I am so in love with the beta version I am just juiced waiting for the hardbook to be in my hands. Thanks though I will look it over.
Weapon finess for everyone? That's pretty powerful. Do you allow strength added to damage when dex is being used to hit? I do but am leary of it.
I don't really think it's that powerful. You still don't get dex to your damage (but yes, you do get strength - which only means if you want to do a bit more damage, you have to increase strength as well, and you can't completely dump it - unless you use a crossbow, but that has worked before).
I also think it makes sense like that. I think it's only natural to wield a dagger with speed rather than brute strengh, and that you don't even need special training for it.
But then again, I'm also allowing everyone to use power attack and similar feats without the feat (albeit at half strength)
Speaking of small things. How about moving great club to a simple weapon. It's stats are poor compared to other twohanded martial weapons but they would fit in well with simple two handers and it would fill the void that simply two handers have, no big dice weapon only a large crit multiplier one. Plus really, it's a big club, not exactly the most difficult or complex weapon alive there.
Agreed. Its weak as a martial weapon, and I'd say it doesn't really require much in the way of martial training either.
His die rolls have been poor to inconsistant.
That explains a lot then.
I still remember Zed Kopp - a fellow player's Blackguard - who actively sought his own death, since he was just useless. Not because his stats sucked or anything like that (they were decent enough), but because the player just couldn't get the dice to love him.
He tried to build a character that gets by without rolling dice himself for some time after that ;-)
Well things took a harsh turn for our group.
Druid...dead
Bard.....dead
Rogue...dead(player was frustrated so we called him dead though he could have survived.)
Fighter and Ranger joined now by
Human Cleric of St. Cuthbert
Human Paladin of Roa
Dwarven Wizard
Half-Orc Fighter/Rogue
(most people are around level 4 some are 5 though)
Druid got killed by a troll, bard got killed heroically trying to save the party, which he did.
The group is now exploring the haunted Ruins of the City of Xim. An ancient city with a reputation as dark as they come. And so far it has lived up to the rep. But the group has managed to find and secure a base of operations from which to move out and sercet the city for information reguarding an anceint cult that seems to be active in the area again.