How to begin STAP - Looking for advice and suggestions


Savage Tide Adventure Path


This has probably been addressed in another thread before, but I could not find it.

My players are entering the last tier of AoWAP, and at the moment I think I will run STAP as their next campaign.

What are the suggestions of those who Dmed or played through the path ?

What would you change, redo, emphasize, suggest... to players or DM alike ?

The Exchange

Egocentrix wrote:

This has probably been addressed in another thread before, but I could not find it.

My players are entering the last tier of AoWAP, and at the moment I think I will run STAP as their next campaign.

What are the suggestions of those who Dmed or played through the path ?

What would you change, redo, emphasize, suggest... to players or DM alike ?

Spoilers follow of course. :)

I'm running STAP, my PCs are about level 19-20 right now, so we're nearing the end. We put additional emphasis on the seafaring and nautical aspects of the game. I bought the "Ravaged Pride" 4-level boat on here and it got a TON of use, taking turns as the Blue Nixie, Sea Wyvern, and a half dozen other boats along the path as well.

I warned players of this focus ahead of time, and what it entailed. I said people wearing heavy armor would be at a serious disadvantage on a ship (if ou fall overboard, your 5 ranks in swim is not going to save you if you're in 40 pounds of armor) - that sort of thing. I also encouraged people to play some of the alternate races out of Stormwrack and such, when else would you.

I started the PCs off at 2nd level and added a "prelude" adventure to the beginning. They were all hands aboard a small coastal merchant ship run by a small dwarven captain...for reasons that are too complicated to go into here, their ship was attacked by sahuagin and a shark and sustained damage, barely able to limp into port at Sasserine thanks to lots of bailing and bilge pumping. The captain decided he was retiring from the business, sold his ship, gave his crea (the PCs) an extra bit of pay as a severance stipend, and sent them on their way. SO they're standing on the dock thinking "what next?" when Kora Whistlegap approaches them, and the fun begins. That all went well. Can give more details on that prelude adventure if anyone cares.

As a result of starting at higher level, I amped up some of the early material a little (this would have been necessary anyway, my party had 8 pcs), but over time, the fact that they were getting less XP than another party made it such that over time I was able to just run the adventure largely as written. Mostly my adjustments consisted of adding a few extra mooks to each encounter, and adding a CR or 2 to every BBEG, in addition to playing the bad guys ruthlessly, which I tend to do anyway.

I expanded Sea Wyvern's Wake quite a bit...we used the Stormwrack rules for rolling up the weather twice a day, and I kept a log of it every day for the entire 90 days. There were lots of encounters at sea, and when they finally reached the Isle of Dread, they REALLY felt like they'd spent months without stepping foot on dry land.... just in time to be welcomed by not one by a mating pair of T-Rexes. :)

Speaking of their landfall, I expanded the hurricane situation and gave the party rolls to attempt to avoid crashing into the reefs. Given that I had a party where lots of the characters had a good prof(sail) score, it would have been possible for them to avoid it, or at least minimize their damage taken and such. However, they botched the listen checks to hear the waves crashing on the reefs over the noise of the storm. Full details of that and lots of other good info are in a thread on here titled "minor questions and quibbles re: sea wyvern's wake" or something like that. I highly recommend you read that for lots of good input.

I removed the "Tamoachan" bit from SWW and replaced it with a ruined temple complex, which was largely stolen from the FR supplement "Serpent Kingdoms". (Oh yeah, we played in the Realms, mostly because I had tons of source material that I didn't want to have go to waste, and because I know it better) It revolved around the Sarrukh, aka "the old ones", the reptilian creator race, and some khaasta that were trying to hunt them. Again, more info on that to anyone that cares. The only important plot piece from Tamoachan was the bat idol, and I just put that in with the Mother of All.

After that, I've mostly ran the adventure straight out of the books, with minor adjustments and additions here and there, and of course the players have plenty of ability to drive changes as well... for instance I think I'm the only STAP I know that's had Gut Tugger as a cohort. Wasn't my idea, but it worked so we ran with it (till he tragically died in the Sargasso), along with a lot of your standard character driven backstories and subplots.

We've had a few PC deaths, and too many close calls to count. We have a Dragon Shaman PC, and his "Healing aura" stabilized a number of dying characters at -8 or -9 where otherwise they would certainly have died. So it could have been way worse - the AP is certainly not for the weak. I allowed a very powerful dice rolling array (4d6, reroll all ones, take best 3, repeat 7 times, take best 6, leads to average stat around 13), and my players have often needed every bit of that. And my group, while not all "powergamers" in the traditional sense, have certainly maximized the potential of their character builds too, so it's not like we're playing with a bunch of fruitcakes or something.

All in all, it's been a GREAT ride and I'm anxiously looking forward to the big conclusion. We're almost done with Enemies of my Enemy, so on to the final issue.

Hope that helps. :)

Sczarni

played for about 24 months, with a steady group of 6 players, with a sit-in-girlfriend druid for about 3 or so sessions.

with the larger group, i tended to up the mook #'s by 1 or 2 per fight, and typically advanced any single-boss monsters by about 2-3 CR. Khala, Emraag, and big D all were not tough enough for my likings...

as far as starting off, I used the Challenge of the Champions from the Dungeon issue right before There is no Honor. That brought the group together, and gave them about 900 XP and a few gp's with which to gamble.

proceeded pretty much as written, with the following group:

Olan, Pelor cleric of ultimate turning doom. no undead in the entire path lasted more than 2 rounds with his turning, greater turning, and eventually quickened greater turnings.

Z, and later Escher. Rogue/Elocators of movement and teleportation shenanigans. 1 of 3 total Leadership characters, mostly there for plot development and party movement (5 PP teleport -equivilant of 3rd lvl spell with extended capacity and range is just sick.)

Hiro, and later Lerris. Ranger/Extreme Explorer/Pyrokineticist and Conjurer cohort. From 2 weapon fighting to lots of fire damage, these are the party item-building-factory and front-line-damage soak. Eventually the ranger's running around as a fire-giant with a big 'ol scythe of doom.

Aly, a straight warmage...all the way to lvl 21 as warmage. More direct damage than you can shake a stick at. Also eventually packing the "get out of jail dispel magic ring" magic item, saving herself and the party from doom a couple of different times.

Redgar, the drunken dwarf monk/drunken master super grappler. Anything smaller than Huge was in serious trouble towards the later adventures.

and the last player had 3 total characters:

A bard who picked a fight with Drevoraz, AFTER talking him into letting them upstairs to release their friends.

A TWF ranger/Dervish, actually who replaced the bard, based off the NPC in the Jade Ravens, whose name I forget.

and finally, Wulfgar, the dwarven Warblade. He was disgustingly effective, especially when he got custom weaponry and all kinds of backup-support.

Things I would have changed over the 20 levels:

Beefed up Khala significantly, and use his SLA's in the first fight with the Wastrilith. (City of Broken Idols)

Skipped SWW pretty much in its entirety, instead having lots of pirate sea time later, after the IoD stuff. Spend levels 1-5 kicking around Sasserine, really using all that backgound info.

Lose the weird Candle/Mirror/Seat puzzle room in the Temple of Fogmire. that was not fun for the 45 or so minutes it took to resolve it. A simpler puzzle may work, but not as it's written.

A lot of other smaller changes will come up as you run for your particular group. For mine, undead were a non-challenge, due to the Radiant Servant's abilities. Teleportation and the like were also inordinately available. Towards the end, everyone could be placed anywhere on a plane pretty reliably as a swift action.

Really read up on the monsters, especially the boss guys, and run em nasty like. They're all very solidly designed, and for the most part easy enough to run in actual combat.

Finally, if Igg. needs to make her play against the party, be utterly ruthless. I hesitated for 1 round and they got all kinds of stuff that made the endgame so much easier. Strive to not allow that, and you should be golden.

-t


Slight Spoiler...

Yeah, I ran the first half of this AP. Ongoing. Used a few of the ideas posted here aswell.

I ran a prelude adventure to intorduce the PC's to Lavinia. Can't remember it now but it was a dungeon adventure involving a wererat and some sewers. I just made Sasserine the setting and went from there. Lavinia heard about the PC's exploits from her minions and made contact.

I think a good idea at the outset is to get the thieves active early in the story. Really enhance the urban part of the story, you know?

This is one of the best AP's I've seen and has a totally unique flavour. Really, this AP is a massive extension of the old school Isle of Dread and me and the players are really enjoying. The ideas posted above are great too - I might yoik a few of 'em myself! :)


More savage-critters!

...though I have said that in many a thread (if you want details I can let you know all the places I added them.)

Oh yeah I would de-emphasize the pirates with my beginning folks, or add more naval encounters. Later I think the pirates are more prevelant, but until half-way through I feel like I mislead my players *grin*


If you are interested in world cohesion, consider that a part of Savage Tide involves the Wormfall Festival, a celebration of Kyuss defeat, in which many people dress up as the heroes that defeat the Wormgod.

So consider that they could be seeing people dressing up as their old PCs.

Take it a step further, and instead of putting ST only 1-2 years after AoW, put it 15-20 later, and they could be the children of the AoW PCs (human at least, elves would be harder).

My group recently wrapped SC and started AoW, and the two players who were "returning" played a native of the new and improved Cauldron, and the son of the warlock from SC. Its good times, and makes for great world investment.


We have not finished the path yet, but I will tell you what I have done so far.

I changed the introduction. The PCs were walking along the harbor after arriving in Sasserine by ship. They overheard the discussion between Soller Vark and Lavinia in the harbormaster's office. Since my players are the meddling type, this worked very well, since they interfered at once.

I elaborated on the plot with the Lotus Dragons and added extra criminal elements in Sasserine.

I added some treasure hunter NPCs to breathe more life in the plot line of the Olman artefacts they can find on the Isle of Dread. I added a lot of extra Olman stuff to give the Olman more screen time, e.g. they could read some vague prophecies in the calendar stone with a knowledge (religion).

I also added a lot of stuff to make the campaign fit in my own campaign world. I used other organizations and chose some other deities that my players were more familiar with.

I elaborated on SWW a lot. I worked out the whole sea voyage in the form of a log, just as discussed earlier. I used 1st edition Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan with a lot of adaptations to accomodate some individual story lines linked to the PCs. I added extra NPCs to the two ships. I added some extra encounters, one with pirates and one with a ghost ship. I added Tammeraut's fate on an island in SWW.

I am going to add the adventure Torrents of dread as well, as one of the missions in TOD.

I beefed up some encounters, since I have six players. Usually I add more mooks.

So far this campaign has been great fun. I hope it will be the same to you.


One of the things I emphasized with Sasserine was the affiliations. It turned out these did not play much into the STAP (we are on adventure 5). The PCs are too low level to have an influence in the first two adventures, are stuck on a ship the 3rd adventure and lost in the jungle for the 4th. I am trying to work these more into Farshore, but so far no bites.

Sasserine as a whole was so well developed that I wanted to see more of it. In fact I included War of the Wielded (did I mention that already?). I moved some of the things from the area around Sasserine (Dragon #??) to jungles along the way of SWW and ToD.

Dark Archive

STAP was a lot of fun. For groups starting off I recommend the DM award 4 additional skill points for each character that are earmarked for Profession, Knowledge, Craft skills. If they're aware of the nautical focus most will pick up some ranks in Sailor, Knowledge (geography) and other nautical skills. When they've done that most will include some sailing experience, pirate stuff in their background and presto the party has a reason to be on the high seas.


Many thanks for the feedback so far. Very rich and good food for thoughts!

I think I will hint at the sailing thing for character generation (may be even at the "wide scope of adventuring beyond the initial place"), use Stormwrack and push for Professional skills (giving bonus skill points may be, yes).

Several of you seem to have developed Sasserine... I did not want to expand or tie-in other adventures as I did in Age of Worms but... This has to be examined. Also I have always wanted to DM the Shrine of Tamoachan... Argh

Any other posts on your game welcome!

The Exchange

Egocentrix wrote:


Several of you seem to have developed Sasserine... I did not want to expand or tie-in other adventures as I did in Age of Worms but... This has to be examined. Also I have always wanted to DM the Shrine of Tamoachan... Argh

Yeah, I didn't do any more with Sasserine than the AP did really, but the potential is definitely there. It's a very good setting and if I hadn't already had all my sailing stuff in mind, it would have definitely been considered more in my game as well. One could easily have a whole campaign centered there.

The Exchange

I don't think I'd just hand out bonus skill points - that seems a little heavy-handed and is also not conducive to class balance. Just mention that those skills might be more important than usual, and if people choose not to take them with the skill points they're given, then that's their own fault.

Same with the point I made about the armor. I mentioned that wearing heavy armor on a ship might be a bad idea... I didn't forbid people from doing it by any means. If some dude wants to play a paladin in full plate, then they're welcome, but again, don't say you weren't warned when you get knocked overboard.

But then, that's just me. If handing out free skills works for you, then go for it. :)

Sovereign Court

I haven't long started myself. My PC's are just now encountering savage pirates. Everyone in my group was so excited about Savage Tide that they all wrote backgrounds involving Sasserine and all of these crossed over with at least one of the other players (with very minor adjustments) so getting started was not issue for me. Launched into "There is no Honor" straight away.

Egocentrix wrote:
Several of you seem to have developed Sasserine... I did not want to expand or tie-in other adventures as I did in Age of Worms but... This has to be examined. Also I have always wanted to DM the Shrine of Tamoachan... Argh

Sasserine is very easy to fill out if your lazy. "War of the Wielded" from Dungeon 149 is written with Sasserine as the back drop and fits in well with the adventure path. With the Lotus Dragons gone, thanks to the PC's, the older thieves guilds come back to the fore wielded magic weapons that they hoped would be useful against the Lotus Dragons...

If your party is a bit into blood sports I seem to remember looking at a Dungeon adventure involving a Gladiatorial arena. Cant think which one...

I'm running a large group and I have used "Salvage Operation" from Dungeon 123 to introduce the Sea Wyvern as part of a shakedown cruise. In my AP Lavinia's parents comissioned two ships. The one they died on and the Sea Wyvern, finished just in time for the PC's to try out (and get them into Blood Bay and "The Bullywug Gambit").

See the "C1 in Wyverns Wake" thread if you want to expand the Tamoachan encounter which I certainly will be doing.

Good luck and have fun.

Tony.


The gladiatorial adventure is called "Pandemonium in the veins" and is in Dungeon 96.

As far as paladins or LG cleric PCs are concerned, this might not be a good idea for the STAP. If you want to know why, then read "Enemies of my enemy". There are some groups with paladins and LG clerics that ran into trouble with this adventure.


Setting-wise, does it work well in the FR and Eberron ? I mean, can it exploit the potential and specificities of the settings as well as Greyhawk's ?

The adaption guidelines given on Paizo website for Eberron seem to discard any Dragonmarked houses involvement, for instance. Have any of you adapted further than changing location and names ?


I think there are comments somewhere in the adventure about adapting the campaign to FR. I also remember that there is a thread about it somewhere on this forum, but I do not remember what it is called. I do not know about Eberron, however.

I did some heavy adaptation, because I play the STAP in my own campaign world.


Converting the campaign to FR and using the specifics of that setting shouldn't be too hard at all. I don't know Eberron as well though. That said, I would think that you could use the dragonmarked houses as affiliations in the campaign like those presented in the companion Dragon articles.

Sean Mahoney

The Exchange

Yeah, mostly though, the adaptation is about changing names and locations. Other than that, it's all just about opening up races, dieties, prestige classes and other material that's available only in the Realms.

I did add a little bit of realms-specific material (see above long post where I referenced my "Serpent Kingdoms" addition), but mostly, the story is already told for you. You can add parts here and there, but with the campaign already largely written, what's left to "convert"?


Egocentrix wrote:

This has probably been addressed in another thread before, but I could not find it.

My players are entering the last tier of AoWAP, and at the moment I think I will run STAP as their next campaign.

What are the suggestions of those who Dmed or played through the path ?

What would you change, redo, emphasize, suggest... to players or DM alike ?

Burnout killed my campaign.... Both for the players and myself. Make sure that they know they are in for the long haul.

Schedule breaks between "Episodes" have somebody DM a one off or two before you plough on..

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