Challange Rating and Encounter Level problems


Playtest Reports


Hello everybody!
First of all I'd like to say hi to all writers, game masters and players. Also, I'd like to thank for Pathfinder rules set, which revitalized my campaign. Me and my group are under big impression.

Forgive me if I try to blow an opened door and that topic was mentioned earlier. There is way to much threads to quickly read them all.

I have a problem with Encounter Level and challenge rating system, as they are presented in beta rulebook. Perhaps it's my fault (maybe I read the rule in a wrong way or misunderstood them) or there is flaw in rules. Let me explain with an example.

My group consist of four characters: cleric level 6, monk/sorcerer levels 5/1, fighter level 5 and wizard level 3. Their Average Party Level is 5 (6+6+5+3=20/4=5). I wanted to create a Challenging encounter which would have CL 6. Looking at Tables I have found that it would be four 2nd fighters. With all due respect but those four soon-to-be-suicide-maniacs would be dead in one or two rounds (depending on that if party has time to buff themselves or not). Moreover, it is not probably, they would even scratch PC's. Definitely this is not an challenging encounter.

So, here is may question. Is it a system's flaw, or have I messed with rules?

Best regards
Martin

P.S.
If somebody is interested, : here is my campaign blog

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Czesc Marcin ;)

Aren't NPCs with Class level at CR = (Total CR - 2) in Pathfinder RPG ? Or am I confuzzling here ? :)


Gorbacz wrote:

Czesc Marcin ;)

Aren't NPCs with Class level at CR = (Total CR - 2) in Pathfinder RPG ? Or am I confuzzling here ? :)

Cześć Gorbacz!

Are you from Poland?

Going back to topic, yes, you are right! I overlooked that detail!

Best regards

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yes I'm from Poland (and Polish too), Poznan to be precise and I run Rise of the Runelords under PF Beta Rules. We're playing since one year and it's a blast.

Anyhooo...here's my shot.

CR 2 -2 = CR 1/2

It means we are 7 steps away from CR 6 so ... it would take ... approx. 12 CR 2 PFRPG Fighters to have a challenging encounter (it gamerspeak, an encounter which will force the party to blow some resources and bring them one step closer to the end of gaming day).

Any ideas ?


Gorbacz wrote:

Yes I'm from Poland (and Polish too), Poznan to be precise and I run Rise of the Runelords under PF Beta Rules. We're playing since one year and it's a blast.

Anyhooo...here's my shot.

CR 2 -2 = CR 1/2

It means we are 7 steps away from CR 6 so ... it would take ... approx. 12 CR 2 PFRPG Fighters to have a challenging encounter (it gamerspeak, an encounter which will force the party to blow some resources and bring them one step closer to the end of gaming day).

Any ideas ?

That cool with me. I thought of similar solution, when you pointed me that rule out. Thanks a lot.

BTW I'm from Warsaw and I'm DM'ing campaign loosely based on Forgotten Realms setting. We converted character while ago from 3rd edition set and it's a blast. PF is what fourth edition should be.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

No problem. 12 lvl2 thugs should hit a lvl 6 PC once in a while and force them to blow some AOE spells/abilities.

OFFTOPIC (sorry guys, lack of forum PMs is a pain):

Byc moze chcialbys sie zrzucic na koszty wyslyki PFRPG ? Do jednej paczki za 45 USD wejda 3 ksiazki. moj mail to jaraczewski(malpa)gmail.com


Marcin Roszkowski wrote:

Hello everybody!

First of all I'd like to say hi to all writers, game masters and players. Also, I'd like to thank for Pathfinder rules set, which revitalized my campaign. Me and my group are under big impression.

Forgive me if I try to blow an opened door and that topic was mentioned earlier. There is way to much threads to quickly read them all.

I have a problem with Encounter Level and challenge rating system, as they are presented in beta rulebook. Perhaps it's my fault (maybe I read the rule in a wrong way or misunderstood them) or there is flaw in rules. Let me explain with an example.

My group consist of four characters: cleric level 6, monk/sorcerer levels 5/1, fighter level 5 and wizard level 3. Their Average Party Level is 5 (6+6+5+3=20/4=5). I wanted to create a Challenging encounter which would have CL 6. Looking at Tables I have found that it would be four 2nd fighters. With all due respect but those four soon-to-be-suicide-maniacs would be dead in one or two rounds (depending on that if party has time to buff themselves or not). Moreover, it is not probably, they would even scratch PC's. Definitely this is not an challenging encounter.

So, here is may question. Is it a system's flaw, or have I messed with rules?

Best regards
Martin

P.S.
If somebody is interested, : here is my campaign blog

Actually if the EL matches the party level the fight should be easy the first time, and get slighter harder each time. Somewhere around the 4th or 5th fight the party should be resting. I have never used the 4,5, or 6 day fight rule, but theoretically somewhere in that area is where the last fight should be.


For a streamlined encounter building for PFRPG rules, try Trailblazer Encounter Design by Benjamin R. Durbin (aka Wulf Rathbane from ENWORLD boards). The forums are down now, but if you check collected teasers and read PDFs there, you won't be disappointed.

For example, at this moment I am running Your OpenOffice Calc (Your OpenOffice is a branch of OpenOffice with support for VBScript macros and somewhat optimized speed features) sheet with macros, which allows me to handle a lot of encounter design stuff and subsequent experience awards.

My own playtest (6-7 underequipped characters at 12th to 13th level) indicates that formulas for encounter design are pretty accurate, though Challenging often means (for bigger PC parties) that the most exposed characters (frontliners, usually) will die. My advice is to build encounters around Easy to Average level with Hard being a rare occurrence.

Regards,
Ruemere

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Roleplaying Game / Playtest Reports / Challange Rating and Encounter Level problems All Messageboards
Recent threads in Playtest Reports
Rangers