RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
aka Tarren Dei
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When mighty Hecataeus discovered an abandoned colossus with the eroded features of a long-forgotten ruler of ancient Thassilon half-sunken and lopsided in the Varisian Mushfens, he felt a peculiar sense of kinship. He returned the colossus to its feet and began to refashion the worn stone to bear an even more noble visage—his own. He believes that through continued research he will be able to animate the colossus and use it to lead his army of constructs against Korvosa and Magnimar. Although it pains Hecataeus to do so, he has hid the head and shoulders of the half-buried colossus in solid fog obscuring all vision beyond 5 feet.
The folds and symbols on the robes of the colossus provide footholds making it easier to climb than most exterior walls (Climb DC 15). Climbing the colossus may attract the attention of the harpy in area 7.
All doors within the colossus are strong wooden reinforced doors (hardness 5; 20 hp; DC 25 strength check to break). Walls are made from hewn stone. Interior walls are usually 3 feet thick but exterior walls vary depending on the location within the construct. Throughout most of the torso, they are at least 20 feet thick. Sconces are placed throughout the structure but torches will only be lit when Hecataeus is working in the room.
Hecataeus enters and exits this chamber through the 3 foot diameter iron doors built into the irides of the colossus. Both of the doors are locked and trapped. Hecataeus carries the keys, but the locks can be picked with a DC 25 disable device check.
Visible creatures near the face of the statue may attract the attention of the harpy who nests on the hand (in area 7).
Traps: Any creature attempting to move through either iris without first disabling the trap or speaking the password ‘Sueataceh!’ triggers a blast of chain lightning that crackles out from Hecataeus’s eyes.
Chain Lightning Trap CR 7
(DMG 73)
Hecataeus uses the circular domed room in the colossus’s head as a study and bedroom. The entire volume of this chamber is permanently protected from scrying by a mage’s private sanctum spell.
Hecataeus enters and exits this room invisibly by flying through the 3 foot diameter irides. The door to the north wall opens to reveal a solid stone wall and triggers the Black Tentacles Trap.
The walls of this chamber are magically treated increasing the Break DC to 70 and hardness to 16, and hp to 1080.
Creatures: A clay golem Hecataeus liberated from a temple in Wartle guards this room. Unlike most of the golems in this colossus, it does not resemble Hecataeus. The clay golem attacks anyone entering the room. Hecataeus is often found in this room, particularly during the daytime when he usually sleeps. The CR for this encounter is 15 if Hecataeus is encountered here and 11 if he is not.
Traps: Opening the reinforced door reveals a solid stone wall that suddenly bursts with rubbery black tentacles that attack anyone within 20 feet of the door.
Clay Golem CR 10
hp 90 (MM 134)
Black Tentacles Trap CR 7
(DMG 73)
Hecataeus uses only the left shoulder to enter and exit the body of the colossus.
Creatures: The trapped door summons one large air elemental, which, taking the form of a whirlwind, attempts to lift any creatures that are not already flying and drop them off the 100 foot high balcony.
Traps: The door on the balcony over the right shoulder is trapped with a Summon Monster VI trap.
Large Air Elemental CR 5
hp 60 (MM 96)
Summon Monster VI Trap CR 7
(DMG 73)
Creatures: The stone golems attack anyone other than Hecataeus who lands on or flies close to the balcony. The golems do not attempt to bullrush anyone off the balcony unless Hecataeus is there to order them to do so.
Stone Golems (2) CR 11
hp 107 (MM 136)
The room is empty.
When any living creature moves within 15 feet of the throne a magic mouth appears on the painting of Hecataeus and a sonorous voice commands, “Kneel, supplicant, and be heard!”.
Creatures: Unless otherwise commanded by Hecataeus, the shield guardians remain stationary until they are attacked or living creatures attempt to move past the throne without first kneeling. Each shield guardian stores a shout spell and emits an ear-splitting command to ‘Kneel!’ before moving forward to attack.
Shield Guardians (4) CR 11
hp 112 (MM 223)
The metal scroll rack contains 31 scrolls, each sealed and inscribed with Hecataeus’s personal arcane mark. Each scroll bears the name of a different Korvosan merchant, wizard, or noble and a full account of the wrongs committed by the named individual against ‘Emperor Hecataeus’ and, invariably, a judgment of guilt and a suitable punishment.
Hecataeus keeps the door barred to keep the harpy in area 7 from bothering him while he writes.
Hecataeus reattached the broken right hand of the statue after raising it from the marsh. Before he could finish resculpting the stone, however, a harpy took up residence on the balcony over the hand. While he does not welcome the interruption to his work, her obvious infatuation with him is understandable and makes him reluctant to forcibly remove her. He enters and exits the colossus invisibly by the left shoulder so as to avoid any amorous intentions she might have towards him.
The reinforced wooden door is barred from the inside of area 6 (break DC 25).
Creatures: The harpy attacks anyone approaching the colossus other than Hecataeus. She attacks from the air, flying around the colossus to separate opponents with the capability to fly from those without. She attacks flying opponents first, and then picks off flightless opponents at her leisure. She has no personal interest in Hecataeus but finds the colossus allows her an impressive view of the marsh and any possible prey.
Harpy Archer, 7th-Level Fighter CR 11
hp 103 (MM 151)
Hecataeus works in this area in the nighttime building his army with the clumsy assistance of three stone golems. If the alarm has not been raised elsewhere, he will be encountered here. The stone blocks and sculpted, but unanimated, statues are works in progress.
Creatures: Three stone golems work at the forge under the direction of Hecataeus during the night. If the alarm has been raised, or if the lair is entered during the day, the golems will be standing amongst the unanimated golems. If encountered in this area, Hecataeus sends his golems and figurine of wondrous power to fight for him. He flees to the area 2 if caught off guard. The CR is 16 if Hecataeus is encountered here.
Stone Golems (3) CR 11
hp 107 (MM 136)
Hecataeus added cells to this room in order to imprison all those simpletons who failed to recognize his genius. The prison is currently occupied only by four flesh golems that Hecataeus has grown tired of looking at. No matter how hard he tries, he cannot craft their faces to suitably reflect his own handsome visage. The cell doors are unlocked.
The floor slopes slightly towards the center ensuring any bodily fluids will drain into the oubliette (area 10).
Creatures: The four flesh golems lie under the blankets and only respond if anyone enters the area protected by the shocking floor trap, at which point they immediately attack.
Traps: Hecataeus has placed a shocking floor trap near the center of this room to punish any future prisoners who try to escape from their cells and to bolster the flesh golems he plans to have stand as guards.
Flesh Golems (4) CR 7
hp 79 (MM 135)
Shocking Floor Trap CR 9
(PRPG 311)
Hecataeus designed this 20 foot deep oubliette to punish the most impertinent of his enemies. He is pruning a list of names now but has yet to decide on an appropriate victim. He will gleefully test his trap on anyone who invades his home and interrupts his work. Lifting the iron grate requires a DC 25 strength check. Hecataeus never stoops to lift the grate himself but commands his golems to do it for him.
Traps: Climbing into or, more likely, being dropped into the oubliette activates the Ratcatcher Trap. The first spell, baleful polymorph, turns the victim into a small rat and the second, summon monster ii, summons a lemure.
Rat CR 1/8
hp varies (see baleful polymorph spell text) (MM 278)
Lemure CR 1
hp 9 (MM 57)
Ratcatcher Trap CR 13
Type magic; Search DC 30; Disable Device 30
===== Effects =====
Trigger proximity; Reset none
Effect spell effect baleful polymorph (one creature within 10 ft.); DC 22 Fortitude negates, will partial, see spell text; and summon monster ii.
Initial Review
Ugh. The "fortress in the statute" gag is so overdone. I think that really holds this back. Not that creative. Particularly when compared to the other Hecataeus submission. I think the other Hecataeus submission is better than this one. I'll have to think about these two. More to come...
Initially not in my Top 4.
Final Thoughts
I wanted to sleep on all of these and really digest them. I didn't want to rush my comments. So having read them all and thought about them, I feel the same way as I did initially on this submission. It is unfortunate that you are being compared to another submission. But I tried my best to simply pretend that one didnt exist and judge this entry in a vaccuum. Even doing so, I still dont think this one merits Top 4.
But that said, having come this far it is certainly fair to take your body of work into account. Trevor, your horn and Bracht were very, very good. I have enjoyed your submissions and I have also enjoyed watching you grow. You clearly have the chops. It is too bad a better version of Hecataeus' lair was submitted. It will be up to the voters to make their decision.
I, however, still feel this submission is not Top 4 and thus is NOT RECOMMENDED
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Kobold Press
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The "lair in a statue" element doesn't bother me, but the comparison to the other Hecataeus lair isn't always favorable. This has less constructs and a different sense of Hecataeus's massive ego. The traps are perfectly in keeping with what Hecataeus should be setting up, and yet I'm not convinced by some encounters (the harpy seems odd, and the elemental just seems a bit tacked on).
It's a good lair, and Monte's right that all the elements needed to run the game are there. But little things are missing. I'd love to have at least one solid role-playing encounter in this, but constructs don't lend themselves to that. And the text flow is pretty choppy.
Any one of the little problems alone might not be so bad, but in RPG Superstar the bar gets higher every round, so...
Not recommended.
I don't mind the "dungeon in a colossus" angle... except that it's the same concept that won RPG Superstar last year (and is now a published adventure, Clash of the Kingslayers). So you've hamstrung yourself by not only using an idea that's been done before, it's an idea that everyone submitting for this contest should be familiar with because it won the contest last year.
Stylistically, there are things here that you need to train yourself to write correctly. Ability scores, feats, and skill names are always capitalized. So it's Strength check, Disable Device, and so on. Spell names are not capitalized, so it's summoned monster IV (the Roman numeral is capped, of course, as is the spell name when it's part of the trap), magic mouth, and so on.
Inconsistent use of italics for spell names.
Spelling errors that a spell-check would catch ("irides," the European spelling of "smolder," "bullrush" rather than "bull rush," "dias").
The backwards-Hecateus-name password is cheesy (appropriate for the original, laughingstock version of this villain, but not for the more serious reboot). I don't even know how to pronounce "Sueataceh"... if you're going to reverse a word, you might want to spell it phonetically so at least the GM has an idea of how to say it if the PCs use magic to discern it (su-ee-ah-taw-keh?). Gygax used reversed-names all the time, but they were much easier to pronounce (Xagyg, Drawmij, Norebo, etc.).
Altogether, I think this is a decent encounter site... just not up to par with what we expect for RPG Superstar this round. That, and that it's similar to last year's entry, and has simple formatting and spelling problems, makes me inclined against advancing it.
Rec: do not advance
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I like this one but I don't think I love it. "This dungeon is full of constructs so rogues and wizards cry boo hoo" is not a problem for me - every adventure CAN'T cater to every character. We have to assume that a decent DM has given the rogues and wizards plenty of other times to shine, and this time around those characters are going to have to work a little harder and/or focus on a support role.
I even like the basic concept of Hec inhabiting a super-megazord-shogun warrior statue and stomping around - it fits (though a bit better with the campy 1st iteration of Hec)... but it also feels a lot like Christine's Transformer-Temple from last year.
It's good, but it's not quite enough for me.
This made it into my last four for this round, and (unlike some of those posting above) I actually preferred it to the other Hecataeus lair. But not, in the end, quite enough. I like it, it's clever, and well done... but it doesn't quite have as much as some of the others. So, sorry, and I wish you the best... but no vote from me this round.
Hey uh maybe I missed something but since (As far as I know) This was made using the PFRPG rules then rogues can sneak attack constructs? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes they can.
Wizard vs. magic-immune golems is still a problem, though. Fortunately, not everything in this lair is a magic-immune golem.|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
aka Tarren Dei
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Spelling errors that a spell-check would catch ("irides," the European spelling of "smolder," "bullrush" rather than "bull rush," "dias").Not if you're using a spell-checker set to Canadian English! ;)
This looks pretty cool, though, admittedly, I haven't seen all the other entries yet!
Thanks, but this was for Pathfinder; I should have used a U.S. English spell-checker.
First off, congratulations on making the Top 8!
Clarification for all, I also thought that IRIDES was a typo, until I saw it again, then I looked it up ... and found that it is the proper plural for IRIS ... knock me over with a feather! Two new words in three submissions ::shaking head::
Yes, there are some typos, and questions, but I felt that this was sooo Hecataeus. Find a giant statue and move right in, making it home and working to figure out how to make it walk again.
Again, please don't answer until you're allowed, but:
Where is Wartle? and in Area 8, what is that black smudge supposed to be?
Only my third read, so on to the next, but congrats, Trevor, I like this :) Now to see if it earns one of my two votes!
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Thanks, but this was for Pathfinder; I should have used a U.S. English spell-checker.Spelling errors that a spell-check would catch ("irides," the European spelling of "smolder," "bullrush" rather than "bull rush," "dias").Not if you're using a spell-checker set to Canadian English! ;)
This looks pretty cool, though, admittedly, I haven't seen all the other entries yet!
Oh, I agree. That post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. But this is the Intertron, so should probably avoid making vague posts!
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Hecataeus reattached the broken right hand of the statue after raising it from the marsh. Before he could finish resculpting the stone, however, a harpy took up residence on the balcony over the hand. While he does not welcome the interruption to his work, her obvious infatuation with him is understandable and makes him reluctant to forcibly remove her. He enters and exits the colossus invisibly by the left shoulder so as to avoid any amorous intentions she might have towards him.
The reinforced wooden door is barred from the inside of area 6 (break DC 25).Creatures: The harpy attacks anyone approaching the colossus other than Hecataeus. She attacks from the air, flying around the colossus to separate opponents with the capability to fly from those without. She attacks flying opponents first, and then picks off flightless opponents at her leisure. She has no personal interest in Hecataeus but finds the colossus allows her an impressive view of the marsh and any possible prey.
This part was very well done. Very humorous. Especially the juxtaposition of the parts I bolded. Such dry humor.
- Section 9's comment about his face on the flesh golems was a nice touch, but I'd really have appreciated a councilmember in distress to be rescued from the room.
- Re: Clark's comment about colossi-fortresses being overdone... The only one I can think of is the one he mentioned and I didn't realize it was a colossi-fortress until Mr. Reynolds mentioned it here. I suppose I've been missing out on all the colossi adventures? What other adventures have buildings inside a statue?
- I like this entry. Comparing it to Eric Bailey's it's a hard decision which one to vote for. Both have their charm- Your harpy and flesh golems; his Animated Chandelier, and command words, and more variety of monsters. Both of you displayed very nice maps, but yours appeared more navigable with its tight spaces. The trap also seems pretty nice. Shoot. It's tough to decide. Based on this work, I'd like to see you both advance.
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I don't have too much problem with the fortress-in-a-statue thing. It may be a little cliché, but it certainly presents an exotic locale that doesn't let you forget that you're in a fantasy game. That's very useful in providing a dynamic action scene against a memorable villain.
I like the way you've arranged the map elements in a vertical order; it makes it easy to see how the floors align to one another. Unfortunately, the shading on the staircases in areas 4 and 5 don't seem to match the direction indicated. It's a minor quibble, but one that could lead to a confusing error when the finished map is created. More problematic to me is that the color and thickness of the lines on the map don't differentiate between physical walls and the edges of exterior areas, leaving the cartographer to guess were the walls end and the balconies begin. This could be remedied a bit if each floor of the map also included an outline of the statue's edges at that elevation, showing how thick the stone is around each area. Beyond that, I question the boxy shape of the lower two levels...it seems like they could stand to flow with the contours of the statue a little.
The cross-section is a very good idea anytime you have a vertical dungeon like this, and it helps a lot to have it included. I like that you put a spot illustration of the statue without the dungeon level overlay. Every bit of detail like that can be useful reference for the cartographer. Some of the details were confusing, though. For example, I couldn't tell the difference between the "Block" and the "Iron parts" in your map key. I also question the placement of the "Ratcatcher Oubliette", even though I do like the concept of it. I don't think I've got a particularly sophomoric mind, but it seems conspicuously positioned to me in the cross-section. I'll leave it at that.
I do like the idea of the dungeon level built in/on the outstretched arm. That's a nice touch and something I don't remember seeing in one of these before. However, the overall design doesn't satisfy to the extent that other entries have; I feel that I'd have my work cut out for me in developing this map to a publishable state.
In Trevor's defense, "irides" is the plural of iris.
Actually, "irises" is the plural of "iris" the eye-part, and that's plural that most people use, and "irides" is marked as a spelling error in my spellchecker, so I'm going to go with "irises," even though "irides" is also listed. Insisting on "irides" is all well and good if you're an optometrist.... but in common usage, well, next thing you know, people are going to insist on pluralizing "octopus" as "octopodes." :p
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- Re: Clark's comment about colossi-fortresses being overdone... The only one I can think of is the one he mentioned and I didn't realize it was a colossi-fortress until Mr. Reynolds mentioned it here. I suppose I've been missing out on all the colossi adventures? What other adventures have buildings inside a statue?
- Queen of the Demonweb Pits by David Sutherland with Gary Gygax
- Earthshaker! by Zeb Cook
- Demon God’s Fane by Monte Cook.
- Clash of the Kingslayers by Christine Schneider. This was the winner of last year's RPG Superstar.
There may be many others that I've forgotten or have never seen.
[Edit]I in no way hold that against this entry. The lair stands[heh] on its own.
Sam
Whether or not it's cliche (and I don't think it is) this particular fortress in a statue, at least, allows the DM a once in a lifetime opportunity to inform any subdued or captured PCs: 'And then he imprisons you in his colon.'
Ahem. Okay, seriously I do like this... your interpretation of Hecateus' megalomania is different from what I personally had in mind when I read either version of him, and Eric's is slightly more in line with what I see from him, but this isn't out of the running for my vote yet.
I do love the harpy, however.
Trevor,
It is extremely cool to see someone else take Hecataeus and run with him. Very nice work, and good luck!
Thank you for the list!
Lots of things to check out; including several famous modules I've never read.
Still, as to Clark's comment I don't think 4 make it a cliche, but perhaps there are others he has seen as Necromancer's editor.
Much appreciation.
-LD.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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In Trevor's defense, "irides" is the plural of iris.Actually, "irises" is the plural of "iris" the eye-part,
With respect, Sean, that's just not true. I'm looking at Dorland's Medical Dictionary, 28th Edition, p. 860, right now, (yeah, I have a copy right by my desk, go figure!) and irides is the plural of iris, the eye part. This medical dictionary has separate entries for iris the "genus of perennial iridaceous herbs" and for iris "the circular pigmented membrane behind the cornea, perforated by the pupil." For the latter, the only plural listed for iris the eye part is irides. Irises is not listed at all.
and that's plural that most people use,
That may very well be true, but lots of people say nukular and misuse "me" and "myself" and "lay" and "lie" and "i.e." instead of "e.g." and "imply" vs. "infer" and a jillion other spelling, usage, and grammatical errors. Maybe the most similar example still is "regime" vs. "regimen" (when used to describe a program of exercise) - is one a misspelling of the other, or just using the wrong word?
Common usage that is incorrect may eventually change the language, but until that change is made it's still incorrect no matter how common it is.
and "irides" is marked as a spelling error in my spellchecker, so I'm going to go with "irises," even though "irides" is also listed.
Wait, so you're admitting it is also listed as a plural, but it's not the one you prefer so that makes it actually objectively wrong? The information in the spellcheck is only as good as the person writing the software. I run spellchecks all day long in medical transcription and I frequently come up with words that simply aren't in the spellchecker
Besides, given that it is an alternate word, it's not a spelling question at all; it's a word usage question. Spellcheck can't tell you whether "their" or "there" is the correct word. If the correct word to use is "there" and you use "their," have you misspelled "there" or have you chosen the wrong word. Spellchecking would be relevant if a person trying to type "irises" had typed it with a 'd' instead of an 's' and ended up with "irides." That's not what happened here.
Insisting on "irides" is all well and good if you're an optometrist.... but in common usage, well, next thing you know, people are going to insist on pluralizing "octopus" as "octopodes." :p
It's funny, Todd Stewart had a similar argument on his thread about the Osirion: Land of the Pharaohs supplement, when someone said he had misused "till" instead of "until" but he whipped out some grammar/usage-fu to prove his point.
In this case, irides is not only perfectly valid, common misusage notwithstanding, but in fact the preferred and more correct (and if you are talking medical terminology the ONLY correct) usage for the plural of iris the eye part.
Wow... I feel like I'm back on rec.games.frp.dnd with this kind of discussion... :)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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- Re: Clark's comment about colossi-fortresses being overdone... The only one I can think of is the one he mentioned and I didn't realize it was a colossi-fortress until Mr. Reynolds mentioned it here. I suppose I've been missing out on all the colossi adventures? What other adventures have buildings inside a statue?
- Queen of the Demonweb Pits by David Sutherland with Gary Gygax
- Earthshaker! by Zeb Cook
- Demon God’s Fane by Monte Cook.
- Clash of the Kingslayers by Christine Schneider. This was the winner of last year's RPG Superstar.
There may be many others that I've forgotten or have never seen.[Edit]I in no way hold that against this entry. The lair stands[heh] on its own.
Sam
There's also the giant dragon statue in Foghaven Vale in DL7 Dragons of Light - it's not a colossus that moves, but it is a dungeon inside of a giant statue.
The information in the spellcheck is only as good as the person writing the software. I run spellchecks all day long in medical transcription and I frequently come up with words that simply aren't in the spellchecker
This is true, I see red lines all the time when I write work documents in English, because so many relatively obscure technical words just don't show up in spellchecker (no "ligand"? Or "siderophore"? "Granitic"? Just to pick couple of examples from the last document I was writing...)
There's also the giant dragon statue in Foghaven Vale in DL7 Dragons of Light - it's not a colossus that moves, but it is a dungeon inside of a giant statue.- Re: Clark's comment about colossi-fortresses being overdone... The only one I can think of is the one he mentioned and I didn't realize it was a colossi-fortress until Mr. Reynolds mentioned it here. I suppose I've been missing out on all the colossi adventures? What other adventures have buildings inside a statue?
- Queen of the Demonweb Pits by David Sutherland with Gary Gygax
- Earthshaker! by Zeb Cook
- Demon God’s Fane by Monte Cook.
- Clash of the Kingslayers by Christine Schneider. This was the winner of last year's RPG Superstar.
There may be many others that I've forgotten or have never seen.[Edit]I in no way hold that against this entry. The lair stands[heh] on its own.
Sam
Dungeon also had its share of them over the years- I recall one that was set inside a giant moving, stomping, iron colossus controlled by an evil wizard (or maybe cleric). Sort of what you'd expect would be the case if H-Man here ever gets his plans off the ground.
Still, saying something isn't original because it appearned in Dungeon isn't fair, since you could likely find an adventure located anywhere over the course of its run. For the record, I don't hold that or any other 'statue' adventures against this entry at all, myself.|
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I once worked on the maps for a Chris Perkins adventure in Dungeon, called "Tears for Twilight Hollow", that had a dungeon built into a colossal statue. In that adventure, the colossus had long since fallen into ruin and lay half-buried in a swamp; a creature had built a lair inside the head, which could only be reached by swimming down into the swamp and up through an eye socket, if I recall correctly. That was a pretty original use of the dungeon-in-a-statue shtick, but certainly not the first and that was about eight years ago.
I still don't think that's necessarily something that should be held against this entry, but the labels of cliché and overdone do have some basis in the body of work that has come before.
The summon monster VI trap in 3a should tell me what monster appears and should give me some tactics it will use.
The trapped door summons one large air elemental which, taking the form of a whirlwind, attempts to lift any creatures that are not already flying and drop them off the 100 foot high balcony.
Or did you want more tactics than that?
I think that citing Christine's is a little misleading, as
But if it works, it's classic and archetypal; if it doesn't it's cliche and overdone. Citing that it's been done before, and done well, is not evidence that this submission doesn't work. It's evidence that this approach has worked in the past.
With respect, Sean, that's just not true. I'm looking at Dorland's Medical Dictionary, 28th Edition, p. 860, right now, (yeah, I have a copy right by my desk, go figure!) and irides is the plural of iris, the eye part.
Which, as I said, is all well and good if you're among optometrists.
My American Heritage College dictionary lists "irises" and "irides" as possible plurals for the eye-part called iris. Both are correct. And considering that I'm a pretty well-read person with a science background and a history of eye problems and I've NEVER heard anyone, not even eye professionals, pluralize it as "irides," I think it's okay for me to call this one out as an error. And, considering that the S and D keys are adjacent on most peoples' keyboards, it's easy to see why seeing "irides" in this context as a typo, especially when the word "irides" is so uncommon that it doesn't even appear in a standard computer spell-checker (a spell-checker which recognizes "shillelagh," "bludgeoning," "praseodymium," and "triskaidekaphobia").
That may very well be true, but lots of people say nukular and misuse "me" and "myself" and "lay" and "lie" and "i.e." instead of "e.g." and "imply" vs. "infer" and a jillion other spelling, usage, and grammatical errors. Maybe the most similar example still is "regime" vs. "regimen" (when used to describe a program of exercise) - is one a misspelling of the other, or just using the wrong word?Common usage that is incorrect may eventually change the language, but until that change is made it's still incorrect no matter how common it is.
The change is made. It's in several dictionaries--American Heritage, Random House, Webster's, Merriam-Webster, American Heritage Science. "Irises" is as correct as "irides," and in more common usage. To insist on using "irides" instead of "irises" is like insisting on using "hither and thither" instead of "here and there."
Wait, so you're admitting it is also listed as a plural,
I looked it up when someone said I was wrong. Yes, the dictionary lists both. It doesn't make my initial statement that "this is something a spell-check would catch."
The information in the spellcheck is only as good as the person writing the software. I run spellchecks all day long in medical transcription and I frequently come up with words that simply aren't in the spellchecker
Sure, and the spellchecker also doesn't recognize "dweomer" and a bunch of other words I use every day, but the readers of our books know the meaning of that (obscure in the mainstream) word. Does the typical reader of our books "know" that the "correct" plural of "iris" is "irides"? Everyone in this thread other than you who has commented on this issue has said, "at first, I thought it was wrong...."
It's funny, Todd Stewart had a similar argument on his thread about the Osirion: Land of the Pharaohs supplement, when someone said he had misused "till" instead of "until" but he whipped out some grammar/usage-fu to prove his point.
The use of "till" is MUCH more common than the use of "irides." And yet less common than "octopodes."
In this case, irides is not only perfectly valid, common misusage notwithstanding,
Except it's not a misusage. ;)
but in fact the preferred and more correct (and if you are talking medical terminology the ONLY correct) usage for the plural of iris the eye part.
Fortunately, Paizo books are not medical books, they're game books, and we don't have to use the terminology that medical professionals use; being a stickler for such things would give me a cardiac infarction. In fact, insisting on the precise medical term might confuse people used to the common (yet still correct) term. :)
But if it works, it's classic and archetypal; if it doesn't it's cliche and overdone. Citing that it's been done before, and done well, is not evidence that this submission doesn't work. It's evidence that this approach has worked in the past.
My point was if you're trying to show your creativity-chops as an RPG Superstar, doing what a previous Superstar winner did may not be the best way to do it.
But if it works, it's classic and archetypal; if it doesn't it's cliche and overdone. Citing that it's been done before, and done well, is not evidence that this submission doesn't work. It's evidence that this approach has worked in the past.My point was if you're trying to show your creativity-chops as an RPG Superstar, doing what a previous Superstar winner did may not be the best way to do it.
Using a process of smurfy logic it seems to me that in that case in some years' time Paizo will be forced to terminate this contest, since the flying accusations that 'the winning entry back in 20xy did that' will make it impossible for contestants to display any creativity-chops. ;)
Yes that was a joke, but I'm trying to make a serious point.
Given the length and breadth of the canon of human story-telling, most concepts will probably have been done before by someone else - and possibly even done better. In the here and now I think we should be looking at (in no particular order) 'does this entry display attention to detail and careful craftsmanship', 'does this entry conform approximately to the laid-down guidelines', 'does this entry successfully convey a sense of character/occasion', and 'is there a novel and original spin to this entry'?
Edit:
Gah! Somehow I left 'Do I like this entry?' off the list of questions, which seems as if it should have been the most obvious one.
I think I need a break....
<Wanders off to cause some havoc at the foot of the Paizo forums; back later.>
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I really enjoyed "The Lonely Colossus"! I think there's a lot of subtle brilliance in this submission, and I love the idea of Hecataeus having a lair inside a colossus. It is so far removed from Christine's walking monastery that the comparison doesn't hold water for me in the least. Yes, the colossus might walk someday, but not in this adventure. It's just a cool and appropriate place for a golem master's lair.
The names of each area are fantastic. Oh, and the Ratcatcher Oubliette makes me chuckle with uninhibited DM glee. Nice job!!
Let me also point out that I've been wrong before--in this contest and elsewhere. ;)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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With respect, Sean, that's just not true. I'm looking at Dorland's Medical Dictionary, 28th Edition, p. 860, right now, (yeah, I have a copy right by my desk, go figure!) and irides is the plural of iris, the eye part.Which, as I said, is all well and good if you're among optometrists.
We're ophthalmologists here, thank you very much; we work on eyes, not glasses. So nyah.
My American Heritage College dictionary lists "irises" and "irides" as possible plurals for the eye-part called iris. Both are correct.
I think this is the sticking point - if both are correct... then what exactly is the problem with using EITHER WORD? Why call it out as an error, as something that should be corrected, when it's already correct?!?!?!??!?!?!
and some more ?!?!?!?!?!? :)
And considering that I'm a pretty well-read person with a science background and a history of eye problems and I've NEVER heard anyone, not even eye professionals, pluralize it as "irides," I think it's okay for me to call this one out as an error.
I think this is the point where I make some lame, tired strawman argument about personal experience vs. ineffable objective truth. That, or insult your netiquette. Or your ancestry. Or talk about freedom of speech or censorship or something. I forget which...
More to the point, a dozen years of medical transcription tells me that you could fill many volumes with what doctors and nurses don't know or routinely get wrong about medical terminology and usage (to say nothing of everyday grammar).
And, considering that the S and D keys are adjacent on most peoples' keyboards, it's easy to see why seeing "irides" in this context as a typo, especially when the word "irides" is so uncommon that it doesn't even appear in a standard computer spell-checker (a spell-checker which recognizes "shillelagh," "bludgeoning," "praseodymium," and "triskaidekaphobia").
I think you have an extraneous "why" (bolded) in the above sentence; that, or an entire missing clause at the end of the sentence to tell us to what the why refers. I think I need to be bludgeoning you over the head with my praseodymium shillelagh. 13 times should do be enough to inspire fear, I think...
The change is made. It's in several dictionaries--American Heritage, Random House, Webster's, Merriam-Webster, American Heritage Science. "Irises" is as correct as "irides," and in more common usage. To insist on using "irides" instead of "irises" is like insisting on using "hither and thither" instead of "here and there."That may very well be true, but lots of people say nukular and misuse "me" and "myself" and "lay" and "lie" and "i.e." instead of "e.g." and "imply" vs. "infer" and a jillion other spelling, usage, and grammatical errors. Maybe the most similar example still is "regime" vs. "regimen" (when used to describe a program of exercise) - is one a misspelling of the other, or just using the wrong word?
Common usage that is incorrect may eventually change the language, but until that change is made it's still incorrect no matter how common it is.
Oh, I don't think anyone outside of ophthalmological circles would really have a cow to say you SHOULD or MUST use irides instead of irises; I think I'm simply standing in the breach in defense of irides-lovers everywhere to ensure that they are accorded the full rights and privileges of free and rational linguists to use an equally (if not more) correct word in favor of the debased vulgate of the flower-eyed rabble.
IOW, to not be called WRONG for using irides, when you yourself and all those non-medical dictionaries say they are RIGHT, even if they are being old-fashioned about it.
Wait, so you're...
You're...
you're...
yo...
And then the body of text contained in the auto-reply reached its sad and bitter end and I'm too lazy to go back and get it. Nooooo... I'm sure I had some devastating zinger to conclude with but now it's lost Lost LOST I tell you!!! Alas, cruel fate!
But seriously, I'm happy Paizo is making game books not medical books. The first time I saw the term myocardial infarction was in X-Men comic books, when Nimrod the super-sentinel was fighting the X-Men and the Hellfire Club, and Harry Leland, the Black Bishop, who had been using his power to increase Nimrod's mass and keep him paralyzed ended up overtaxing himself and busting his ticker, which was clinically analyzed by Nimrod as being a "myocardial infarction; colloquial referent: heart attack."
If the goal is accessibility for the widest audience of gamers, then obviously you go with common usage over strict rectitude when you edit for final pub. All I'm sayin is, don't cap on a guy for a "mistake" when HE'S the one using the right word!
P.S. Smurf.
But if it works, it's classic and archetypal; if it doesn't it's cliche and overdone. Citing that it's been done before, and done well, is not evidence that this submission doesn't work. It's evidence that this approach has worked in the past.My point was if you're trying to show your creativity-chops as an RPG Superstar, doing what a previous Superstar winner did may not be the best way to do it.
Well, yes, if you're going to go classic style, you better make a REALLY FREAKING GREAT classic encounter 'cause you're competing with a ton of gamer memories. I largely agree with you in this particular case, if not with this as a general principle. (Sorry, Trevor. I haven't finished the entries yet, and I already have three that I'm more excited by. Good luck, though!)
...analyzed by Nimrod as being a "myocardial infarction; colloquial referent: heart attack."
...
This is a good point. Nimrod would not use the colloquial as a robot. Similarly H would know the technical word and--to show his superiority--use it. Not only can he construct the things, but he can grammar them as well!
H enters through the irides, though your party will probably enter through the irises (or the party will enter through an iris, I doubt they will use both :)
This does allude to one of my favorite parts of this entry: the names of the various rooms. It just shows off H's ego so well.
I wanted to see more false doors/traps. It will keep a party on their toes after the first one, and the second one. It may get boring but if the PCs find a door that they can not discover a trap on after establishing this pattern, they deserve to spend their time and resources looking.
Kudos Trevor!
Jason, I'll tell you what I tell Wes: "Baby, let's not fight."
:)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Thank you Jason, Sean, and all for the extensive feedback on 1 of the 2000 words in my entry. I heartily encourage you to provide equally extensive feedback on the 1999 remaining words. ;-D
Ummm... I really liked your use of the word "the." Very retro. Every time it came up, it gave me chills. In fact, it was smurftastic... :)
