Paladins - 'Lay on hands' wording - 'Faith Points'


Open Comments

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I posted this in the Paladin forum, but it was after that section of the playtest ended, so it wasn't really discussed.

I think that the current 'Lay on hands uses' should be replaced with 'Faith points'.

This is not a functional change. I simply feel that the slightly altered wording would
1) Bring Paladins in line with Barbarians and Monks in having 'point' based abilities
2) Make wording slightly less awkward.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

It may be wise also to either make 'Smite Evil' and 'Aura of Justice' use 'Justice Points' or make them also use Faith Points.

Dark Archive

I could see this working and I agree it fits with the flavor of the other class point systems.


Taking your idea a step further, a cool variant paladin would roll spellcasting into those mechanics as well. Essentially, he'd be a spontaneous caster (like a bard or sorcerer); lay hands (cure) would be replaced by CLW as a spell known; later lay hands abilities would simply be spells known; smite evil would become a 1st level spell with a swift-action casting time. Instead of calling them "spells" (which annoys many people when applied to paladins and rangers), you could call them "faith abilities" or something, but the mechanics would be the same as for spontaneous spells.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Hmm.. although I did see this in the Paladin forum, I had already moved on to other issues.

I will revisit this concept.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
I will revisit this concept.

Thanks! I would like to stress that this is just a wording change, not a rules change. Consolidating Smite into the same points pool would be a rule change, though.

Scarab Sages

I have no problem with point pools; they're a standard mechanic in lots of games.

'Faith Points' are also a lot more self-explanatory and intuitive to new players than clumsy references to 'turning', which is a concept I've always had to explain to every new player.

"I've got this pool of points, okay, and if I'm a good boy, and prove how faithful I am, I get more? Yeah, that figures. What can I do with them?"

"Here you go...(hand out list)"

It also opens up the possibility of customising the class to different faiths, without having to rewrite the base class mechanics, by reintroducing many of the closed-content Divine Feats under new wording.

I can see certain relics, actions or circumstances that increase the Faith Pool, without being 'magic items' per se, so can't be traded.

Kill undead or fiend of CR (PC level -4 to PC level) - gain 1 Faith Point

Kill undead or fiend of CR over PC level - gain 2 Faith Points

Unit of at least 10 flagellants within 30' - gain 1 Faith Point (oh, hang on, I'm channeling Warhammer Sigmarites again...Be Pure, Be Vigilant, BEHAVE!...)

Dark Archive

Nice save Ross!

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

I would be interested in seeing channel energy also use Faith Points. That way, both clerics and paladins would have Faith Points. Clerics use them to channel energy. Paladins use them to channel energy, lay on hands, smite evil, or whatever other paladin abilities you tie to Faith Points.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Epic Meepo wrote:
I would be interested in seeing channel energy also use Faith Points. That way, both clerics and paladins would have Faith Points. Clerics use them to channel energy. Paladins use them to channel energy, lay on hands, smite evil, or whatever other paladin abilities you tie to Faith Points.

I like this in concept, but I wonder about the problems of letting a multiclass Paladin/Cleric use points from one class for the other.

Plus, clerics have no other use for Faith Points than Channel Energy. Does it still cost two points? If it does, that's confusing. If it doesn't, then multiclassing looks messy, since the character can spend one point to channel as a cleric and two to channel as a paladin.

It does, however, make for a good way to implement the 'Divine' type feats from previous editions, where turning attempts were used.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Ross Byers wrote:
I wonder about the problems of letting a multiclass Paladin/Cleric use points from one class for the other.

I wouldn't have a problem with that, assuming the point totals of each class were balanced to handle that sort of thing. But then again, it's too late in the playtest to start fiddling with stuff like that, so I guess paladins should be the only ones with Faith Points.

Liberty's Edge

One of the best things (IMO) to come out of the playtesting was losing the Rage Points mechanic for the alternate version posted by Jason.

In essence, it eliminated the "middle-man", the dreaded "X per day."

The way the Alternate version works, a Barbarian can Rage a number of rounds per day, instead of X per day for X amount of rounds. This allows the use of "micro-rages" that the points system allowed, but without the major bookkeeping of Rage points. Rage powers work whenever a PC rages, with some only usable on a per round basis, while others are constantly on if a character rages.

I would love to have seen a version of Smite that worked similar, and to have been able to playtest it as well. The idea of Smite powers, that can be chosen as a character advanced would allow some degree of customization, as well as a reason to continue to advance toward the endcap ability.

Scarab Sages

Ross Byers wrote:

I like this in concept, but I wonder about the problems of letting a multiclass Paladin/Cleric use points from one class for the other.

Plus, clerics have no other use for Faith Points than Channel Energy. Does it still cost two points? If it does, that's confusing. If it doesn't, then multiclassing looks messy, since the character can spend one point to channel as a cleric and two to channel as a paladin.

All the more reason for it to cost 1 for both classes!

:)


I like the idea.

I dislike the term "Faith Points."

"Conviction" or something similar would be better. "Faith Points" cheapens it somewhat.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

"Faith Points" was simply the first phrase that came to mind. I'm not exactly set on it, except to say that 'lay-on-hands uses' is clumsy and awkward, so something akin to the 'Ki point' would be preferable.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Arnim Thayer wrote:

One of the best things (IMO) to come out of the playtesting was losing the Rage Points mechanic for the alternate version posted by Jason.

In essence, it eliminated the "middle-man", the dreaded "X per day."

The way the Alternate version works, a Barbarian can Rage a number of rounds per day, instead of X per day for X amount of rounds. This allows the use of "micro-rages" that the points system allowed, but without the major bookkeeping of Rage points. Rage powers work whenever a PC rages, with some only usable on a per round basis, while others are constantly on if a character rages.

I would love to have seen a version of Smite that worked similar, and to have been able to playtest it as well. The idea of Smite powers, that can be chosen as a character advanced would allow some degree of customization, as well as a reason to continue to advance toward the endcap ability.

I'll agree that the new version of Rage works more cleanly and without a big pool of points. However, it only works because a round of rage has exactly one use: A round of rage. Imagine the system in the printed beta, using 'rounds of rage' instead of rage points to fuel rage powers. It's very awkward.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Roleplaying Game / Design Forums / Open Comments / Paladins - 'Lay on hands' wording - 'Faith Points' All Messageboards
Recent threads in Open Comments