I'm cross-posting this here, as it has been floating on the Rise of the Runelords AP board for a few months now but I haven't had a thread dedicated to it here, and it's possible there are people who don't traffic one or the other.
I've been converting Paizo's Rise of the Runelords adventure path for a few months now, running my players through it from start to finish and posting the conversion as I go to a blog. It contains lengthy information on how to run the adventure path in 4th Edition D&D, and makes only slight adjustments to the adventures where necessary. The entire bestiary of each adventure path module will be converted as well.
So far, the entirety of Burnt Offerings (the first adventure in the series) has been converted, as well as its bestiary. The majority of The Skinsaw Murders is also converted. Work will begin soon on converting The Hook Mountain Massacre, and I hope to completely convert the entire adventure path.
If you'd like to follow along or draw from the conversion for your own game, you can find the blog at Tales from the Rusty Dragon. Questions, comments and suggestions can be made either here or on the blog.
This is very good work, I only wish I had seen it earlier!
I have only just started looking at it but did you find any problems in translating the smaller 3E encounters into challenging/interesting 4e encounters? I tried my hand at converting some of age of worms but some of the environments and monsters did not seem as compelling in 4e.
Thanks for all the hard work!
This is very good work, I only wish I had seen it earlier!
I have only just started looking at it but did you find any problems in translating the smaller 3E encounters into challenging/interesting 4e encounters? I tried my hand at converting some of age of worms but some of the environments and monsters did not seem as compelling in 4e.
Thanks for all the hard work!
No real problems, no. The biggest obstacle (and one that I ultimately decided not to tackle for the sake of maintaining the original adventure's integrity) is that there are a handful of traps which simply do not play well under 4th Edition design philosophy. Most traps in D&D 3.5 are, frankly, boring. They involve a single member of the party, are often a single-check encounter, and are not actually challenging in any way. 4th Edition traps are designed to challenge the entire party, and to integrate closely with other encounter elements. Things like trapped chests and collapsing floors simply do not make for really interesting encounters, but are everywhere in 3rd Edition adventures.
Other than that, it's been pretty smooth sailing.
The Seven's Sawmill is now completely converted and has been added to the blog. I'm now caught up to my own game, which means that The Skinsaw Murders will be totally converted within a couple weeks' time.
Also, I've done the math and I'm on track to have the PCs hit 8th level by the end of the adventure. This is within the target range to hit mid-epic tier by the conclusion of the adventure path.
Scott,
how are you finding the encounter balance? Running my own games and using the details from the DMG i've noticed the APL+4 encounter, especially if its vs a Solo can be a real party killer.
Scott,
how are you finding the encounter balance? Running my own games and using the details from the DMG i've noticed the APL+4 encounter, especially if its vs a Solo can be a real party killer.
I've had no real snags. There have been a few occasions where the party has been in bad shape, but so far there have been no PC deaths. Solo monsters are always difficult to predict, since their effectiveness depends a great deal on how good the party is at locking the monster down.
What experience has taught me is that the difference between a healthy, breathing party and a rotting pile of corpses at the end of an encounter is the use of some solid tactical thinking. A party that coordinates well with one another can survive some tremendously hard fights, and a party where every character operates independently can be brought low by a group of push-over monsters.
I'm sure this a dump question, but what do you use to make the stat blocks?
Haha, I've been asked that a few times. I use a truly heinous process to create each stat block in a word processing program. I just put together a short step-by-step of what my stat block creation process looks like, for anyone with enough free time on their hands to care. It's on the blog (Tangent: How I Make Stat Blocks).
Thanks alot Scott!
After seeing this I'm really thinking about running a 4e RotRL game, or converting Second Darkness.
Glad to hear it. If you make use of my conversion please let me know how it goes.
RE: the stat block formatting tangent.
http://www.critical-hits.com/2009/02/05/chrome-compendium/
this may help.
Scott, your stuff is awesome on toast. My wife has used some of it for her game and it was lots of fun. I'm temporarily converting my Pathfinder game to 4E because a good friend of mine is gonna have to stop gaming in a few months and really wants to play some 4E, so I did up channel divinity feats for the Golarion gods. I'll either post a link here or send them off to you to see if you'd wanna use them in your game.
Scott, your stuff is awesome on toast. My wife has used some of it for her game and it was lots of fun. I'm temporarily converting my Pathfinder game to 4E because a good friend of mine is gonna have to stop gaming in a few months and really wants to play some 4E, so I did up channel divinity feats for the Golarion gods. I'll either post a link here or send them off to you to see if you'd wanna use them in your game.
Cool, I'll be anxious to see them.
RE: the stat block formatting tangent.
http://www.critical-hits.com/2009/02/05/chrome-compendium/
this may help.
That is VERY awesome to know, but unfortunately it looks like it creates stat blocks that are too wide for my tastes. What I'm holding out for is an actual stat block generator akin to the one Wizards has created, but ideally far more robust (and that spits out formatting the way I like it).
A few of the Shadow Clock encounters are up now, too.
Scott, could you shoot me an e-mail at Snyderman.37(at)gmail.com. I can't seem to find your e-mail on your blog.
I played around with stat block creation today and I think I've come up with a new format/template that is ever so slightly easier on me as well as being more faithful to the way they appear in splat books.
A few changes have taken place, including the addition of unique Channeled Divinity feats for all non-evil Golarion gods - credit goes to Golarion Goblin/NChance for the excellent feat write-ups.
The remainder of the Shadow Clock is now live on the blog, and with that The Skinsaw Murders is completely converted. Enjoy!
Next week, The Hook Mountain Massacre.
I'm a little surprised that I'm still excited about this project two whole adventures into it. Fingers crossed that my interest will hold strong for another four.
Apologies for a lack of updates this week - my party spent the entire session trying to hunt down the Sandpoint Devil and put an end to its intermittent tyranny over the local farms. We'll start in on The Hook Mountain Massacre in earnest next week.
The first pieces of The Hook Mountain Massacre are up! The adventure's exposition, along with a couple encounters for the party to happen across on the journey to Turtleback Ferry, has gotten the conversion treatment. I've also posted the Ogrekin template stat block, which I'll be making heavy use of during the first half of the adventure.
The conversion blog now also operates under Paizo's Community Use Policy. Enjoy!
EDIT: How cool is it that the recent Art of the Kill article in Dragon magazine includes a Black Arrow Style technique feat? I'm going to use it to structure the remaining Black Arrows' powers when I stat them up. Then, if a member of the party wants to learn their fighting style from them, the feat is already designed for them!
A few notes about plans for the future of the adventure path:
Stone giants figure pretty heavily into the middle of the adventure path. The updated System Reference Document indicates that they'll probably be making an appearance in the Monster Manual 2 on May 19th. We'll see how swiftly my game progresses through The Hook Mountain Massacre, but I just did some rough math and it may arrive just in time for their appearance near the end of the adventure.
I spent a significant chunk of today going through all the old stat blocks I built for Burnt Offerings and reformatting them according to the new style I'm using. In the process I had the chance to make a lot of (mostly minor) changes to the monsters - I feel like I have a pretty good handle on monster construction at this point, but when I started doing this in July of last year I really didn't. My spring break comes up in a week, and I'll finish the rest of the reformatting then. I'll probably upload all the new stat blocks in one big go, so expect them in a couple weeks.
I'm really excited to start conversion work on Fortress of the Stone Giants, even though it's an entire adventure ahead of where my group is now. It makes me feel a little guilty, because The Hook Mountain Massacre is such a great piece too but I've found my mind jumping ahead.
I'd love to hear suggestions on what you think would make an interesting way to develop the Keeping the Keep article. I'd like to turn it into a 3-4 encounter optional side-trek but I haven't decided what direction to take it in.
A few notes about plans for the future of the adventure path:
Stone giants figure pretty heavily into the middle of the adventure path. The updated System Reference Document indicates that they'll probably be making an appearance in the Monster Manual 2 on May 19th. We'll see how swiftly my game progresses through The Hook Mountain Massacre, but I just did some rough math and it may arrive just in time for their appearance near the end of the adventure.
I spent a significant chunk of today going through all the old stat blocks I built for Burnt Offerings and reformatting them according to the new style I'm using. In the process I had the chance to make a lot of (mostly minor) changes to the monsters - I feel like I have a pretty good handle on monster construction at this point, but when I started doing this in July of last year I really didn't. My spring break comes up in a week, and I'll finish the rest of the reformatting then. I'll probably upload all the new stat blocks in one big go, so expect them in a couple weeks.
I'm really excited to start conversion work on Fortress of the Stone Giants, even though it's an entire adventure ahead of where my group is now. It makes me feel a little guilty, because The Hook Mountain Massacre is such a great piece too but I've found my mind jumping ahead.
I'd love to hear suggestions on what you think would make an interesting way to develop the Keeping the Keep article. I'd like to turn it into a 3-4 encounter optional side-trek but I haven't decided what direction to take it in.
I too find myself looking forward to Fortress of the Stone Giants. The adventure feels like someone used a heavy metal concept album for inspiration and I know my players are going to love it. I mean, just look at the Taiga Giant. Ho-ly crap!
When I was thinking of how to convert Keeping the Keep myself (having pulled ahead of your conversion at the time) I was thinking it would be fun to try it as some sort of massive skill check that encompasses a few smaller skill checks and combat encounters based on the scenes in the article. I never really got down to "crunching the numbers" so to speak, so I don't know how doable that really is, but the recent Dungeon articles expanding skill challenge design seem to suggest that its not impossible.
If I were going to run it as a side trek, I'd probably take a slower "day in the life" pace to it to break from the story driven heart of the adventure. Spend a few days getting to know the NPCs, find a secret passage, the next day some bandits show up, the next there's a fire, the next trouble from visiting adventures, end it with the holiday tournament deal giving them some NPCs they could possibly leave the keep to once their gone.
Turtleback Ferry, the encounter with Kibb and Rukus, and the first couple encounters of the Graul farmstead have been added to the blog! Pounding out the traps on the first floor of the farmhouse was interesting. Though each of them is a miniature challenge in itself to overcome, they don't combine well into a single tactical encounter. In that sense, they're pretty uninteresting. On the other hand, I think their primary purpose here is not necessarily to seriously impede the party but to flavor the experience of wandering through a house that could be taken straight out of a Halloween freak show maze. Enjoy!
This upcoming week is spring break, so my game won't continue until the following week. Instead of adding new encounters and such, I'll be replacing all the old stat blocks with the new version. I have made a couple minor revisions to the mechanics of some stat blocks (mostly for the sake of consistency). Double-check to make sure you're using the most recent version once they go up.
All the Burnt Offerings stat blocks have been updated. Some monsters have seen significant revisions (Nualia got an extra ability, Koruvus is now elite), some have seen minor changes and others have been left mechanically intact.
I'll be finishing the rest of them in the next couple days.
My secret spring break project has seen its first draft!
The entire conversion of Burnt Offerings, plus the conversion information for the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide, can now be downloaded in a PDF format designed to mirror the original adventure.
There's still a little editing work that needs to be done, and it might be worthwhile for me to go back and revisit a couple of the earlier skill challenges, but the current draft is very usable.
Give it a look, and let me know what you think!
Scott,
Thanks for the compiled pdf. I have read through about half it now and I must say you put a lot of work into this, and the community as a whole owes you for it. Your introductions and explanation to the planning where great. I look forward to the Skinsaw Murders which other then the almost TPK on the top of the clock tower, is one of my favorite mods.
I personally ran this AP in 3.5 and had a blast but reading this compiled file makes me want to re-run the whole thing again in 4th. I hope more AP get a full treatment like this. I never played the Crimson Throne, and haven't even looked at Second Darkness.
Thanks again.
PS. OOC, Why isn't Lone Wolf +1 Fort instead of the Reflex?
Scott,
Thanks for the compiled pdf. I have read through about half it now and I must say you put a lot of work into this, and the community as a whole owes you for it. Your introductions and explanation to the planning where great. I look forward to the Skinsaw Murders which other then the almost TPK on the top of the clock tower, is one of my favorite mods.I personally ran this AP in 3.5 and had a blast but reading this compiled file makes me want to re-run the whole thing again in 4th. I hope more AP get a full treatment like this. I never played the Crimson Throne, and haven't even looked at Second Darkness.
Thanks again.
PS. OOC, Why isn't Lone Wolf +1 Fort instead of the Reflex?
You're welcome, especially if you manage to get some use out of it!
I'm going to be re-examining the background feats (it's been suggested - and rightly so - that they be turned into actual backgrounds a la Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, Scales of War or Player's Handbook 2). Don't worry too much about the state they're in now. That won't hold for too long.
The blog has been updated up through the encounter with Mammy Graul (which was awesome when I ran it earlier tonight). Enjoy!
Also, the Burnt Offerings conversion is up to 128 downloads. What the heck? I figured maybe a couple dozen people were following this. I find it hard to believe that well over a hundred people are even remotely interested in this project.
With the release of the new Player's Handbook II, I'm now ready to suggest switching to 4E to my players. I'm running an introduction module next week to convince them that 4E is more dynamic.
I found your blog and I was amazed by the dedication and quality of conversion. You can be sure I'll use your work.
So keep up the good work. If you accept contributions, I'll be happy to oblige.
- Zorg
With the release of the new Player's Handbook II, I'm now ready to suggest switching to 4E to my players. I'm running an introduction module next week to convince them that 4E is more dynamic.
I found your blog and I was amazed by the dedication and quality of conversion. You can be sure I'll use your work.
So keep up the good work. If you accept contributions, I'll be happy to oblige.
- Zorg
I'm glad you think it will be useful!
I won't be accepting contributions for the project, but thank you anyway. That's very kind.
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Also, the Burnt Offerings conversion is up to 128 downloads. What the heck? I figured maybe a couple dozen people were following this. I find it hard to believe that well over a hundred people are even remotely interested in this project.
Why are you surprised? 4e isn't exactly rich to excess in quality adventures yet (but that should change with the revised GSL), and I'm sure people are starved for quality. You did all of the work of converting a solid adventure to the new system.
WotC is good with writing rules systems, but they've never been the kings (or even the stable boy, really) of scenario writing. Even their generally accepted best effort (Red Hand of Doom) was written by a guy who works here now, and the only dude they've still got that can write decent scenarios (I'm ambivalent about his novel writing, but there's no denying Baker is a talented RPG writer).
Pat yourself on the back, you've done well :)
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Scott
I have a question about converting adventures (I'm running D0 and D1 with 4e rules). When you run across masterwork weapons/armors in the orignal module do you leave them as mundame items or make them magical weapons in 4e. Also magical ammunition, on page 232 of the phb it says, "Ammunition does not come in magical versions". How would you handle this? Just convert the ammunition or in place of the that put a magical bow, sling, etc?
According to the Treasure Parcels, adventurers can't find +1 items. So I'd suggest that you use those +1 weapons (and focus) instead of Masterwork items.
Furthermore, D&D 4E encourage GMs to put magic items that the player will actualy use. So you might want to tweak the treasures a bit. Unless they are very specific to the adventure (like the Sihedron medaillon, or the Lamia Matriarch polearm).
- Zorg
Scott** spoiler omitted **
Unless the treasure is critical to the plot, don't worry too much about it. First, your players usually won't have any reason to tell the difference if you make a sword that was magical in the original adventure into a non-magical weapon in your conversion. Second, as was pointed out above, it's more important to make the magical items that are found useful for the party. Magic items aren't supposed to feel "necessary" at any particular point - the party has them, because they come across a fair number in their travels, but even powerful monsters might not necessarily employ magical gear. The days of every 6th-level orc having a +1 axe are no more.
The days of every 6th-level orc having a +1 axe are no more.
Thank you Cthulhu Jeebus!!!!!
A buddy is talking about doing a 4E campaign, and I'm trying to talk him into doing this! I have read Rise of the Runelords in bits and pieces, but it was a long time ago, and I think I can play it without too much bias. This is awesome, and I hope you keep it up!
A buddy is talking about doing a 4E campaign, and I'm trying to talk him into doing this! I have read Rise of the Runelords in bits and pieces, but it was a long time ago, and I think I can play it without too much bias. This is awesome, and I hope you keep it up!
Thanks! I hope so too.
The Graul farmhouse has been completely converted. Next week will finish up the barn and then we'll be on to Fort Rannick.
Working on a replacement for the tendriculous was especially fun. I like the concept of creating a monster with abilities that work in concert to pose a challenge to an entire party. When I first read the 4th Edition write-ups for creatures like Tiamat, I immediately thought of how cool it would be both to run that monster and to fight it. I originally designed Muck as an elite monster, but it didn't provide much in the way of an obstacle for the party to overcome when I ran my game. I spent a couple days mulling over how to modify it, and you can see the end result in the encounter write-up. Let me know what you think!
The Burnt Offerings compiled conversion has been updated to version 0.2. I fixed all the errors I could find and added the missing quest cards. All background feats are now character backgrounds a la PHB2.
I did not know you planned on compiling this into one document, excellent work again! I will be starting a new campaign soon and was dithering on what to run, you have made up my mind.
I did not know you planned on compiling this into one document, excellent work again! I will be starting a new campaign soon and was dithering on what to run, you have made up my mind.
That's wonderful! Please let me know how it turns out.
The Graul farm is complete, including the barn. You can also find stat blocks for the remaining Black Arrows on the blog. Onward to Fort Rannick!
Scott - I ran my group through the barn and ground floor of the Graul Homestead using your conversion notes this past weekend. It was absolutely amazing!
The brothers' abilities worked really well to communicate their nature. And Mammy Graul herself was perfect - the players were completely appalled. Oddly, at first about half the party ignored her to deal with her "boys" in the room (later one player mentioned that she seemed slow, so they thought that one or two melee types would be able to lock her down, and the rest wouldn't have to worry about her). But then she started Dominating PCs, and things got a lot more serious.
I made one addition of my own - I played music during the session. Details spoilered so those who are interested can check it out:
*In my campaign, Lyrie was sent to the Black Arrows, and the PCs escorted her there earlier, so I had her as a recent escape from the Grauls in this scene, with Rukus hunting her.
The barn playlist included:
The Overweight Lover's In The House
Get Down On It
Get Up Offa That Thing
Superman Lover
Freakshow On The Dancefloor
Shake Your Groove Thing
Funkytown
Freak to Freak
Play That Funky Music
Pumpin' It Up
Pull My Strings
And Mammy Graul's playlist included:
Da Butt
You Sexy Thing
Baby Got Back
Brick House
A Real Mother For Ya
Give It To Me Baby
Momma's Boy
Super Freak
Freak of the Week
So, any idea when you'll be posting your next update? (grin)
Scott - I ran my group through the barn and ground floor of the Graul Homestead using your conversion notes this past weekend. It was absolutely amazing!
The brothers' abilities worked really well to communicate their nature. And Mammy Graul herself was perfect - the players were completely appalled. Oddly, at first about half the party ignored her to deal with her "boys" in the room (later one player mentioned that she seemed slow, so they thought that one or two melee types would be able to lock her down, and the rest wouldn't have to worry about her). But then she started Dominating PCs, and things got a lot more serious.
I made one addition of my own - I played music during the session. Details spoilered so those who are interested can check it out:
** spoiler omitted **
So, any idea when you'll be posting your next update? (grin)
Glad to hear it! I regularly have music playing during my game (usually a Lord of the Rings soundtrack). It does add a nice touch, especially if you select music to match the encounter.
The next update will be posted tonight. I just got back from running my game a few minutes ago. The secret tunnels of Fort Rannick and portions of the keep will be updated, and I'll be adding rules for using Lyrakien (from The Skinsaw Murders) as familiars now that Arcane Power has been released.
Everything should be posted within a couple of hours.
Updated! The secret tunnels of Fort Rannick, the fort's courtyard, and the first floor of the keep itself are all converted. Also, Arcane Power was released last week. I promised that once it came out I would include rules for lyrakien familiars, and so I have. You can find it in the bestiary post for The Skinsaw Murders.
The Burnt Offerings conversion document has been updated again. All the skill challenges have been retooled to the stat block format presented in the SRD, and the layout of the columns has been shifted to make the document easier to read. v0.3 of the compiled conversion can be found here.
And Mammy Graul herself was perfect...
I've played some of your conversion and done some myself. I found Mommy Graul to be among your worst conversions. She is typed as a brute, but is an obvious controller. She seriously lacks damage. With her high hp, defenses, and control powers, she becomes very grindy without really posing a credible threat.
This is one of the few fights where I had to handwave things and say "pay X healing surges and win" - it got that grindy. The other such fight was against the end boss in Burnt Offerings.
And Mammy Graul herself was perfect...I've played some of your conversion and done some myself. I found Mommy Graul to be among your worst conversions. She is typed as a brute, but is an obvious controller. She seriously lacks damage. With her high hp, defenses, and control powers, she becomes very grindy without really posing a credible threat.
This is one of the few fights where I had to handwave things and say "pay X healing surges and win" - it got that grindy. The other such fight was against the end boss in Burnt Offerings.
You're right, she should be roled as a controller. Her brute role was a by-product of her being an ogrekin, but even with its application she remains a much more obvious controller than brute.
I find it odd that this fight became so grindy for your group. This fight went very smoothly for my own group. Were the undead listed in the encounter used in the fight? Mammy isn't designed to be her own threat. She's supposed to keep the party in disarray while her undead tear them apart. Those undead are quite strong on their own and Mammy herself should be reasonably assured of having at least one PC dominated per round, unless she's being controlled to a standstill. How did her dominate ability work for your group? My group had a rogue and barbarian, and the strength of their at-will attacks led me to keep them dominated as much as I could. I also dominated the party paladin at one point and had her use lay on hands on Mammy to give her a little extra staying power.