Solid Fog too absolute?


Magic and Spells


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I know this one might be silly, as its really just some annoying fog, but what I mean is that this is another one of those "absolute" spells, in that it doesn't matter what strength a target of this spell has, no matter what, your movement is reduced to 5. If you had a creature with a 500 Strength and a 10,000 mile per round movement, he is reduced to 5' movement, just the same as my dear old Aunt May, who is 94 years old, has a 5 strength, and a base 10 movement rate.

Does anyone see any gain in tweaking this spell?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

jreyst wrote:

I know this one might be silly, as its really just some annoying fog, but what I mean is that this is another one of those "absolute" spells, in that it doesn't matter what strength a target of this spell has, no matter what, your movement is reduced to 5. If you had a creature with a 500 Strength and a 10,000 mile per round movement, he is reduced to 5' movement, just the same as my dear old Aunt May, who is 94 years old, has a 5 strength, and a base 10 movement rate.

Does anyone see any gain in tweaking this spell?

Actaully... I'd quite like to see this spell toned down. Mabye even something down to "Reflex Negates" or something. I've seen far too many Gargantuan and Colossal creatures frozen in place by this spell.

Scarab Sages

And be sure to put all effects in the spell description, rather than referencing another spell.

Our Shackled City game used to stop dead every time something dropped Acid Fog...

"Acid Fog (see Solid Fog), OK, let's see. Solid Fog (see Fog Cloud)...gguuuhhh"


I'ld run it something like entangle. Maybe a higher difficulty since its a higher spell though.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would also vote for a "one fog effect in a place at a time" - the Acid Fog + Solid Fog + Cloudkill combo is getting old fast.


I'd think that the CMB/Maneuver mechanic makes the most sense for "physically restraining" effects, with graduated effects based on especially bad or good Saves/ Maneuver Rolls.

If not that, FORT Saves seem more appropriate than REFLEX:
Low FORT save Targets would more or less be in the same boat as now, but the big FORT save Targets would be more likely to only suffer a partial movement/action penalty.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Quandary wrote:

I'd think that the CMB/Maneuver mechanic makes the most sense for "physically restraining" effects, with graduated effects based on especially bad or good Saves/ Maneuver Rolls.

If not that, FORT Saves seem more appropriate than REFLEX:
Low FORT save Targets would more or less be in the same boat as now, but the big FORT save Targets would be more likely to only suffer a partial movement/action penalty.

Yeah I see big strong things able to power through it, still at a reduced speed, but better able to push through than quick/dexterous targets.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

The combo that was killing me (thanks a lot, Jason Nelson!) was to do a solid fog on a large creature and then start dropping blade barriers into the fog. More or less autodamage, since the larger the creature gets, the more difficult it is for said creature to be able to escape the blade barriers. Lame.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
The combo that was killing me (thanks a lot, Jason Nelson!) was to do a solid fog on a large creature and then start dropping blade barriers into the fog. More or less autodamage, since the larger the creature gets, the more difficult it is for said creature to be able to escape the blade barriers. Lame.

Umm... OW?

Scarab Sages

James Jacobs wrote:
The combo that was killing me (thanks a lot, Jason Nelson!) was to do a solid fog on a large creature and then start dropping blade barriers into the fog. More or less autodamage, since the larger the creature gets, the more difficult it is for said creature to be able to escape the blade barriers. Lame.

Doesn't necessarily work. Blade barrier gives a Reflex negates save if you drop it on top of a creature; if they make the save, they get automatically moved to one side or the other of the barrier (their choice). As long as they make their initial saves, they're not subject to any damage from blade barrier.


My favorite combo fog-wise since way back when is solid fog and stinking cloud and web and what is now called sleet storm. Cloudkill being a generally self-propelled effect is less-than-ideal for the combination, better suited to use as an extermination agent.

The trick of course is that it is readily dispellable - one area dispel with decent die rolls can wipe out the whole package. Freedom of Movement completely does not care about the speed restriction - whether or not you can discern orientation is another matter altogether. Control Winds readily shreds any fog, and Gust of Wind to a lesser degree. Air elementals' vortex should shred a fog in a matter of seconds.

Solid Fog is potentially unpleasant in combination, but in its own right is not undefeatable. Not moreso than most other spells at any rate.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

James Jacobs wrote:
The combo that was killing me (thanks a lot, Jason Nelson!) was to do a solid fog on a large creature and then start dropping blade barriers into the fog. More or less autodamage, since the larger the creature gets, the more difficult it is for said creature to be able to escape the blade barriers. Lame.

At your service, good sir. Don't forget using time stop and Quicken Spell to lay on several essentially simultaneously. Well, until the Demogorgon battle anyway. But hey, it was a hell of a death scene!!!

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

William Senn wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The combo that was killing me (thanks a lot, Jason Nelson!) was to do a solid fog on a large creature and then start dropping blade barriers into the fog. More or less autodamage, since the larger the creature gets, the more difficult it is for said creature to be able to escape the blade barriers. Lame.
Doesn't necessarily work. Blade barrier gives a Reflex negates save if you drop it on top of a creature; if they make the save, they get automatically moved to one side or the other of the barrier (their choice). As long as they make their initial saves, they're not subject to any damage from blade barrier.

The tactic was actually to criss-cross several BBs, so that even a creature that avoided or moved away from one would find itself in another, and the save DCs were sufficiently high that a big creature, with Ref as generally its weakest save, would rarely save vs. more than one.

Also, it's ambiguous as to whether the creature is actually MOVED by saving vs. BB, much less how far they would move. They "end up on one side of it" by rule, and take no damage from it as long as they don't re-enter it, but are they squeezing? Do they actually move? Do they not change their position but just "take no damage from it" as long as they move out of it on their next turn?

Anyway, the favored pattern for laying it on was basically a tic-tac-toe cross-hatch of four, with a solid fog over the whole thing (the trick requires a combination of time stop and/or Quicken Spell to really work), so no matter which direction a creature moves it'll still be inside of at least 2 BBs on the second round unless it has freedom of movement or can teleport or whatever. If you move into/within a BB that already exists, there is no save; the save only comes up at the moment the spell is cast onto your space.


Turin the Mad wrote:
The trick of course is that it is readily dispellable - one area dispel with decent die rolls can wipe out the whole package. Freedom of Movement completely does not care about the speed restriction - whether or not you can discern orientation is another matter altogether. Control Winds readily shreds any fog, and Gust of Wind to a lesser degree. Air elementals' vortex should shred a fog in a matter of seconds.

Sure, but most BDMs (big, dumb monsters) have access to none of those. Even BMIMs (big, moderately intelligent monsters) are usually out of luck.

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:
Actaully... I'd quite like to see this spell toned down. Mabye even something down to "Reflex Negates" or something. I've seen far too many Gargantuan and Colossal creatures frozen in place by this spell.

What about making the movement of the critter caught in the fog a function of its strength?

...the solid fog is so thick that any creature attempting to move through it progresses at a speed of 5 feet for each 10 points of strengh (rounded down)...

That would put a cloud giant at a movement of 15' and a bulette at 10' shile restricting most medium and smaller creatures to 5'. Math might need adjusting but you get my point.


jreyst wrote:

I know this one might be silly, as its really just some annoying fog, but what I mean is that this is another one of those "absolute" spells, in that it doesn't matter what strength a target of this spell has, no matter what, your movement is reduced to 5. If you had a creature with a 500 Strength and a 10,000 mile per round movement, he is reduced to 5' movement, just the same as my dear old Aunt May, who is 94 years old, has a 5 strength, and a base 10 movement rate.

Does anyone see any gain in tweaking this spell?

I think a STR check that gives an improved movement speed as a full-round action would be fair. Your size could also give a bonus to the check.

My reasoning is thus: If you can't at least buy yourself a round vs. a barbarian horde with this spell, you're wasting a spell slot. If you attempt to cast this spell on a Purple Worm, however, it's your own damn fault for wasting your spell slot.

Also, keep in mind that the adverse effects of this spell can be countered with a Gust of Wind spell. Our group has come to a reasonable assumption that this form of dispersal is instantaneous, as opposed to normal wind dispersal which takes 1 round.


hogarth wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
The trick of course is that it is readily dispellable - one area dispel with decent die rolls can wipe out the whole package. Freedom of Movement completely does not care about the speed restriction - whether or not you can discern orientation is another matter altogether. Control Winds readily shreds any fog, and Gust of Wind to a lesser degree. Air elementals' vortex should shred a fog in a matter of seconds.
Sure, but most BDMs (big, dumb monsters) have access to none of those. Even BMIMs (big, moderately intelligent monsters) are usually out of luck.

Um - yeah, and? ^_^ That requires re-tooling the spell why? If it is done 'officially' then I have no problem with it. I just don't have a problem with it as it stands now either.


hogarth wrote:
Sure, but most BDMs (big, dumb monsters) have access to none of those. Even BMIMs (big, moderately intelligent monsters) are usually out of luck.

I don't see that as a problem. The fact that they're dumb is their drawback. A wizard should be able to exploit that drawback.


Turin the Mad wrote:
Um - yeah, and? ^_^ That requires re-tooling the spell why? If it is done 'officially' then I have no problem with it. I just don't have a problem with it as it stands now either.

I don't really have a problem with the spell (other than the fact that I find it slows down combats). I just roll my eyes a little bit whenever I see a statement along the lines of: "X is not overpowered because there is a particular wizard/cleric spell that counteracts it." (I hear this argument repeated ad nauseam on various WotC message boards.)

It just sounds a little like people are saying: "If you're not a wizard or a cleric, the fact that you suck is a feature, not a bug." :-)

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Jason Nelson wrote:
If you move into/within a BB that already exists, there is no save; the save only comes up at the moment the spell is cast onto your space.

From the SRD:

Any creature passing through the wall takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 15d6), with a Reflex save for half damage.

Seems pretty clear to me...


hogarth wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Um - yeah, and? ^_^ That requires re-tooling the spell why? If it is done 'officially' then I have no problem with it. I just don't have a problem with it as it stands now either.

I don't really have a problem with the spell (other than the fact that I find it slows down combats). I just roll my eyes a little bit whenever I see a statement along the lines of: "X is not overpowered because there is a particular wizard/cleric spell that counteracts it." (I hear this argument repeated ad nauseam on various WotC message boards.)

It just sounds a little like people are saying: "If you're not a wizard or a cleric, the fact that you suck is a feature, not a bug." :-)

Kind of like saying "if you don't have a full BAB and a feat every character level, the fact that you suck is a feature, not a bug." :-)

Attack roll only has to worry about an AC, then DR (maybe) and damage dealt. Spells excepting when quickened can only throw down once a round, often are resistable, often permit saving throws (that far more often succeed than not) and become less useful at higher levels while the melee dude generally gets MORE effective at higher levels. YMMV

As GMs we can always house-rule things to suit our table's tastes better - and of course the collective bickering/discussions/whizzing contests/arguements/perspectives are hopefully all going to contribute by the end of February to an awesome Pathfinder RPG Core Book!

Given the time of general release, I believe the "MM 1" for PFRPG has probably already been sent off to the printer...

Rules "discussions" FTW!! For everyone, more or less. :)


My DM just through a maze of Solid Fog at us this past week. And the parts that weren't solid fog were filled with regular fog.

And in the middle he put a minotaur which he decided would not be slowed by the fog.

We lost half the party. Now, he told us afterwards that it wasn't his goal to knock half the party down. I think he vastly underestimated the effect this would have though. Now, some of this can be attributed to use not playing the encounter meta-gaming, so our characters didn't always know what they were doing exactly.

In any event, might be good to look at the spell.


DougyP wrote:

My DM just through a maze of Solid Fog at us this past week. And the parts that weren't solid fog were filled with regular fog.

And in the middle he put a minotaur which he decided would not be slowed by the fog.

We lost half the party. Now, he told us afterwards that it wasn't his goal to knock half the party down. I think he vastly underestimated the effect this would have though. Now, some of this can be attributed to use not playing the encounter meta-gaming, so our characters didn't always know what they were doing exactly.

In any event, might be good to look at the spell.

Ouch - a minotaur with freedom of movement and apparently blindsight ... I like it. Sorry half of you got whacked though. What levels were you at?

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