WorldWorksGames and Legacy of Fire


Legacy of Fire

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Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

We posted this press release yesterday...

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

Vic Wertz wrote:
We posted this press release yesterday...

Very exciting!

Will these count as Paizo or non-Paizo pdfs for subscriber discounts?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

yoda8myhead wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
We posted this press release yesterday...

Very exciting!

Will these count as Paizo or non-Paizo pdfs for subscriber discounts?

These are non-Paizo PDFs.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:

We posted this press release yesterday...

Cool stuff..

Anyone know how difficult it is to put this stuff together?

Vic will they cover all the maps in the quest?.. or just area you think will have the most likely combat?

Will you be making maps for the other APs that are already complete?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Dragnmoon wrote:

Vic will they cover all the maps in the quest?.. or just area you think will have the most likely combat?

Will you be making maps for the other APs that are already complete?

For now, the plan is to do the most significant area for each volume, and see how it goes...

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:

Vic will they cover all the maps in the quest?.. or just area you think will have the most likely combat?

Will you be making maps for the other APs that are already complete?

For now, the plan is to do the most significant area for each volume, and see how it goes...

Ok.. I will check them out.. I will give you my ideas once they are out...


I also will check them out. The photos look good and the 3d factor makes them too good to pass up. I just it's time to buy a lot of toner for the old color laser printer!

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
doppelganger wrote:
I also will check them out. The photos look good and the 3d factor makes them too good to pass up. I just it's time to buy a lot of toner for the old color laser printer!

I just am worried about the difficulty of putting them together...

My kindergarten teacher did a poor job on teaching the use of scissors ;-).

I still would just prefer 1 inch scale battle maps.


Dragnmoon wrote:
I still would just prefer 1 inch scale battle maps.

I feel like you do on this. Although I'm sure I'll still check at least one of them out.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Dragnmoon wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:

We posted this press release yesterday...

Cool stuff..

Anyone know how difficult it is to put this stuff together?

Vic will they cover all the maps in the quest?.. or just area you think will have the most likely combat?

Will you be making maps for the other APs that are already complete?

I'm working with them to do one map for each adventure in the Legacy of Fire Adventure Path to pick a map that has the right combo of appearance, size, and importance to the AP. It won't cover all the maps for each adventure, but just one per adventure. At this point, there are no plans to go back to make maps of other Adventure Paths.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Dragnmoon wrote:

I still would just prefer 1 inch scale battle maps.

While it'd certainly be fun to do 1-inch-scale battle maps for every map in an AP... that'll probably never happen, simply because it's FAR to expensive.

We can't just "blow up" an existing map to that scale, for one; the pixels would show and the maps would look sparse and ugly. We'd have to go back to have the cartographer redraw all the maps, make them huge, and then re-pay him for maps. Since we pay for maps by the page (an eight panel poster map costs eight times the size of a full page), that'd very swiftly drive Paizo out of business as we pay for dozens, if not hundreds (depending on the scale of the map) of pages of battlemaps to be drawn... and then printed... and then shipped. And we would STILL have to have a cartographer do the maps for Pathfinder as they are already anyway.

There's no time, no money, no room, and no capacity to do 1-inch-scale battlemats for every map in an AP. Not right now, at least.

These upcoming WorldWorks maps are going to be pretty cool, though, and for now they're as close as we'll be able to get. Who knows what the future might bring! (And for those who prefer 2D maps... you can still use these in that way, I believe!)


This is an exciting development!


Bleh, I want battle maps in a pdf form I can print myself. I know it can be done, all you need is the art to be created at higher resolutions to begin with.


Hot diggety!

Two of my favorite things, packed together!

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
James Jacobs wrote:

I'm working with them to do one map for each adventure in the Legacy of Fire Adventure Path to pick a map that has the right combo of appearance, size, and importance to the AP. It won't cover all the maps for each adventure, but just one per adventure. At this point, there are no plans to go back to make maps of other Adventure Paths.

Sorry..I have no interest in buying this for just one map per adventure..

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Eric Tillemans wrote:
Bleh, I want battle maps in a pdf form I can print myself. I know it can be done, all you need is the art to be created at higher resolutions to begin with.

This is what I am looking for...

Lantern Lodge

Dragnmoon wrote:


This is what I am looking for...

WorldWorks 3D maps do look cool, but you're paying for the PDF plus your own card-stock and printer inks. You'll use the encounter once, and dispose of it because you don't have room to store these. I'm also dubious of the practicality of having 3D walls getting in the way of overhang from miniatures (weapons, tails, wings etc.) in an already crowded battle-field.

As cool as these look, I'm with others here who are looking more for one inch scale battle-mats. I've found Paizo flip-mats to be ideal for this purpose! I think co-ordinating flip-mat designs with Paizo's adventure path and Pathfinder Society scenarios is currently the best solution.

As luck would have it, the newly released Theatre flip-mat arrived in my letterbox only two days after I ran Among the Living at Arcanacon, but I hope to run it again at Conquest over Easter.

I've also used the Ship flip-map for both The Hydra's Fang Incident and Slave Pits of Absalom, the Desert flip-map for The Third Riddle (would also be good for Murder on the Silken Caravan), the Cathedral flip-mat for Silent Tide, etc. I'm looking forward to the new Water-front Inn flip-mat, as the original Inn is no longer available, and this is a much-used location.

So I'd like to see flip-mats featured more, as they're easier to store, require no assembly or post-purchase costs, and have a higher re-use factor.

I wish Paizo and WorldWorks well with this new endeavour - it's certainly has appeal from a novelty factor, and I'm sure a lot of players enjoy this sort of thing. Personally, I think it has more appeal than the online 3D mapping feature offered by Wizards, at least until Microsoft Surface table-tops or something similar become more affordable and common-place.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Dragnmoon wrote:
Eric Tillemans wrote:
Bleh, I want battle maps in a pdf form I can print myself. I know it can be done, all you need is the art to be created at higher resolutions to begin with.
This is what I am looking for...

Did either of you read James' response just a few posts up from yours?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

James Jacobs wrote:
(And for those who prefer 2D maps... you can still use these in that way, I believe!)

Yep—they're designed that that you can skip building the walls altogether if you like, and just use the floorplans and accessories.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

4 people marked this as a favorite.

So I just looked at Pathfinder #18 and, out of curiosity, decided to figure out how much it would cost us to pay a cartographer to rebuild all of the maps in the adventure to a 1-inch per square scale. This doesn't even touch the logistics of how we'd print and ship a map that could measures more than 4 by 5 feet in size (or how much color ink you'd use up printing it out) , or how much additional time this would take the cartographer to do (and thus make sticking to Pathfinder's monthly schedule even more difficult).

What I found out: It would cost us less to pay someone to write and illustrate a module than it would to pay for battlemat scale maps for an average volume of Pathfinder. The combination of paying for all the maps, illustrations, text, and cover for a 32 page module is less than what it would cost to print the six maps in "Descent Into Midnight."

It gets even more exciting for a volume with really big maps. Paying a cartographer to do the maps from Pathfinder #11's "Skeletons of Scarwall" would cost the the same as paying for 3 32 page modules—that's more money than a Pathfinder's entire art/text budget.

If someone out there wants to tackle the job of creating battlemat-scale maps for Pathfinder, and can maintain the quality of map we'd require AND can put out something like 60-square-feet of map per month AND was willing to do it as a licensor, then we might be on to something. Until that occurs, though, we don't have the budget or the manpower or the time to provide high-resolution copies of maps for every Pathfinder.

It's tough enough to keep the things on schedule as it is, honestly! I don't want to get into the business of wrangling bedsheet-sized maps on a monthly as well! :-)

Liberty's Edge

How about a pre-painted scale model kit of Fort Rannick? ^^

Scarab Sages

James Jacobs wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:

I still would just prefer 1 inch scale battle maps.

While it'd certainly be fun to do 1-inch-scale battle maps for every map in an AP... that'll probably never happen, simply because it's FAR to expensive.

We can't just "blow up" an existing map to that scale, for one; the pixels would show and the maps would look sparse and ugly. We'd have to go back to have the cartographer redraw all the maps, make them huge, and then re-pay him for maps. Since we pay for maps by the page (an eight panel poster map costs eight times the size of a full page), that'd very swiftly drive Paizo out of business as we pay for dozens, if not hundreds (depending on the scale of the map) of pages of battlemaps to be drawn... and then printed... and then shipped. And we would STILL have to have a cartographer do the maps for Pathfinder as they are already anyway.

There's no time, no money, no room, and no capacity to do 1-inch-scale battlemats for every map in an AP. Not right now, at least.

What if you don't pay by the page? There are several artists out there that would love to map for Paizo. I'm one, and I'm mapping Misgivings (from RotR: Skinsaw Murders) just for my own pleasure. You might find that with an updated pricing scheme you might be able to afford some fresh blood for the battlemaps. Besides, they might sell as additional products. I would pay about the same as a module for a full set of battlemaps. Another thing to consider would be whether you want to keep these digital, in PDF or in high-res JPG format for Virtual Tabletops, like d20pro or Maptools.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
Eric Tillemans wrote:
Bleh, I want battle maps in a pdf form I can print myself. I know it can be done, all you need is the art to be created at higher resolutions to begin with.
This is what I am looking for...
Did either of you read James' response just a few posts up from yours?

I think it's both of you who don't understand what we want. Get the same maps you already do at a higher resolution and making a battle map that looks good would be easy (see tintagels post above). Sell the PDF's of the battle maps to your customers and we do the rest. No printing costs for you, that way you only have to sell enough PDF's to cover the relatively small production fees.

Scarab Sages

I did these a while back too. Your fans are clamoring for this kind of product, and I'm a firm believer in solutions. They might just require some paradigm shifting, that's all.

Ghost of Mistmoor: Redux

The Temple of Elemental Evil (up to Dungeon Level 1


Eric Tillemans wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
Eric Tillemans wrote:
Bleh, I want battle maps in a pdf form I can print myself. I know it can be done, all you need is the art to be created at higher resolutions to begin with.
This is what I am looking for...
Did either of you read James' response just a few posts up from yours?
I think it's both of you who don't understand what we want. Get the same maps you already do at a higher resolution and making a battle map that looks good would be easy (see tintagels post above). Sell the PDF's of the battle maps to your customers and we do the rest. No printing costs for you, that way you only have to sell enough PDF's to cover the relatively small production fees.

I think it is a strong possibility that if the cartographer knows that the maps that he is creating will be sold at a scaled up resolution, he will likely want to do more work to make them not look bad at that resolution.

I imagine that prior to turning in the map, that they are looking at how the map looks at the intended size. If the intended size goes up to the battle mat size, that would mean that they are looking at making it look good at that large of a size. So they would be doing more work, and because of that I would not think it would be strange that they would want to be paid more for it.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

tintagel wrote:
I did these a while back too. Your fans are clamoring for this kind of product, and I'm a firm believer in solutions. They might just require some paradigm shifting, that's all.

Our fans are clamoring for all sorts of product. One of the realities of Paizo Publishing is that we can't give our fans everything they want. We just don't have the manpower. We have to pick our battles and focus our resources on the things that we feel are the most important.

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but what it comes down to is this: on the schedule we produce adventures, we simply Can Not take the time to do full scale battlemats for every adventure... even if we only release them as PDFs. Cutting out the printing step of a product actually doesn't impact the editorial pit or the artists at all.

Again; there's nothing preventing anyone from taking the maps we DO provide in our PDF versions of our products and resizing them up to the proper scale. They'll pixellate and they might not look GREAT, but for now that's the only real option. When we get our fan kit guidelines up, it'll be even easier for fans to redo maps and post them if they want.

In the meantime, the really cool-looking maps that Worldworks is doing will have to do for now. If that takes off, maybe they'll do more.

For now, though, we've got bigger fish to fry than making big maps.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Blazej wrote:

I think it is a strong possibility that if the cartographer knows that the maps that he is creating will be sold at a scaled up resolution, he will likely want to do more work to make them not look bad at that resolution.

I imagine that prior to turning in the map, that they are looking at how the map looks at the intended size. If the intended size goes up to the battle mat size, that would mean that they are looking at making it look good at that large of a size. So they would be doing more work, and because of that I would not think it would be strange that they would want to be paid more for it.

I guarentee you that'll be the case. We already DO projects like this: whenever we do a poster map of a city in a Map Folio, as we did for Magnimar and Sandpoint and Zirnakaynin and Varisia, we had to have Rob redraw and rebuild the map files. He had to clean them up so they'd look good at the larger size, and that meant more time. It's not a simple matter of hitting the "resize image" button, unfortunately. And more work means more cost.

And if he takes more time building those maps, that's less time he has to do maps for us for Pathfinder and our other projects. We could certainly hire other cartographers to build these extra maps, but again... we have a lot of plates spinning now already.

Rest assured, I'm sure the subject of battlemats will be a topic of discussion at Paizo... you've certainly got our attention. I'd be curios to know, of course, what percentage of the people who buy Pathfinder would be interested in buying battlemats as well...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

tintagel wrote:
What if you don't pay by the page? There are several artists out there that would love to map for Paizo. I'm one, and I'm mapping Misgivings (from RotR: Skinsaw Murders) just for my own pleasure. You might find that with an updated pricing scheme you might be able to afford some fresh blood for the battlemaps. Besides, they might sell as additional products. I would pay about the same as a module for a full set of battlemaps. Another thing to consider would be whether you want to keep these digital, in PDF or in high-res JPG format for Virtual Tabletops, like d20pro or Maptools.

"Updated Pricing Scheme" sounds like "Pay less for more" to me, alas. I'd rather not get into the habit of asking cartographers to work harder on projects (by building MUCH higher resolution maps) while paying them less (or even the same) for that same map produced at smaller scale for use in a book.

That said, the map of the Misgivings you're working on looks really nice. Just to satisfy my own curiosity... do you feel that you could produce battlemat scale maps like that for an entire volume of Pathfinder in less than a month?


I don't know what your requirements are when you decide which map for WorlWorksGames to do, but I would prefer if you selected to do maps that really benefited from the 3D treatment. One such example is The Wreck from STAP.

Lantern Lodge

James Jacobs wrote:
I'd be curios to know, of course, what percentage of the people who buy Pathfinder would be interested in buying battlemats as well...

I'm already buying all the Paizo flip-mats I can get my hands on.

I used to buy WotC's Fantastic Locations for the battlemaps and then pay for them to be laminated.

I also buy a pack of each Dungeon Tiles set WotC release, you can't beat them for quality, but I find I use the larger tiles the most, finding the smaller tiles you need for a game is just tedious.

I even bought D&D Basic sets for the quality of their tiles.

I've also bought some Rackham(?) (French company) map tiles, which are a bit of a mixed bag, are ever-so-slightly less than one inch grid, but contain a few gem maps among their selection - I particularly like the one that looks like an underground fight club with blood-stained wooden-floored boxing ring.

I have yet to purchase any of Paizo's Map Packs mostly due to concern over their thickness and durability, and fears they may slip during play, but I've just placed the Campsites one in my shopping cart to judge for myself, as that one seemed to attract good reviews.


James Jacobs wrote:

And if he takes more time building those maps, that's less time he has to do maps for us for Pathfinder and our other projects. We could certainly hire other cartographers to build these extra maps, but again... we have a lot of plates spinning now already.

Rest assured, I'm sure the subject of battlemats will be a topic of discussion at Paizo... you've certainly got our attention. I'd be curios to know, of course, what percentage of the people who buy Pathfinder would be interested in buying battlemats as well...

I was on board for the Map Folios (as well as quite a few others if I recall) thinking they were battlemaps. I know I wasn't the only one disappointed to find out that wasn't what the Folios were.

Does that help you gauge? (I'm not suggesting I represent your fan base beyond myself, but I remember the Folio discussion.)


Since alot of the Adventure Path maps that would require battlemat scale are dungeon type (indoors or outdoors) perhaps there is a simplier solution.

Instead of the entire map created, you simply supply the basic building blocks.

A 2x2, 2x6, etc bit of map drawn to scale. The user prints out what he wants and arranges it to match the map in the adventure.

I am sure you could do this with what WWG is providing. Print a couple floor plans out (without the walls) and arrange them differently.

Sure you lose some of the extras that a full proper map would provide, that is not happening. Instead you get the same basic feel for an adventure path/dungeon.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
I'd be curios to know, of course, what percentage of the people who buy Pathfinder would be interested in buying battlemats as well...

Have you guys ever thought about doing surveys of your customers when you are thinking about new products? Would they want the product? How much would they pay for it?

For myself there are really 2 things I would Love from you guys, but you have said they are not cost effective. Inclusing the battlemaps that seem really unlikley at thsi point I would Love pre painted Minis. Though I think your minis you guys put out are great, I would never buy them because they are not pre-painted. But as is for the battlmaps you mentioned that pre-painted minis would just be too expensive.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

James Jacobs wrote:
Again; there's nothing preventing anyone from taking the maps we DO provide in our PDF versions of our products and resizing them up to the proper scale. They'll pixellate and they might not look GREAT, but for now that's the only real option. When we get our fan kit guidelines up, it'll be even easier for fans to redo maps and post them if they want.

I'd just like to make it clear that one of the key words in what James said is "redo." If you blow up our existing maps, please keep them for personal use only. If you're willing to redo them (meaning you're creating new cartography based on our existing designs), you may share them with others under our forthcoming Community Use Policy.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Posting stuff early in the morning...

It is 3am there... Why are you up?.. Go to Bed!!! You need to be nice and fresh for the begining of the week :-)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Dragnmoon wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Posting stuff early in the morning...
It is 3am there... Why are you up?.. Go to Bed!!! You need to be nice and fresh for the begining of the week :-)

No beginning of the week for me—I'm sick, and have to work from home. I can't be the one who starts PaizoPandemic '09, so 3 AM is as good a time as any to work...

Scarab Sages

James Jacobs wrote:
That said, the map of the Misgivings you're working on looks really nice. Just to satisfy my own curiosity... do you feel that you could produce battlemat scale maps like that for an entire volume of Pathfinder in less than a month?

Well, that map of Misgivings was about 4 days of work. Considering that the 2nd and 3rd levels would be around another day each (since I don't have to do the grounds again), I could probably finish it in a week. Now that's at 200 dpi with all sorts of lighting and attention to small details. A basic battlemap doesn't need to be that detailed. Heck, the maps of the Hambley farm and fields were done in about a day - and were rushed, but definitely serviceable.

Looking over the Skinsaw Murders or Burnt Offerings (the two adventures that I own so far), I think that I could map either one in a month. At least, I'm willing to try, and I think just by the response you all have had with the Open Call, others are willing to try too.

I'm in the process of starting an LLC called Creative Gremlins, and we are in talks with several (6+) mappers from the Dundjinni community. Cisticola, Supercaptain, Kepli, Dragonwolf, Aegean - they are well known at the DJ forums and do excellent work. Anways, Creative Gremlins will exist to act as an agent for artists and help sell their work. If time is a factor, perhaps we could distribute the load a bit, and keep certain mappers working on certain "themes" so that we have some visual consistency. I could handle indoor maps, another could handle outdoor battlemaps, etc.

At any rate, if payment is an issue (and I can't believe I'm saying this) you could present the community with a basic map and do an All Call to get it in battlemap format, and award a cash prize to the best. I'd also be willing to try my hand at a map FOR FREE. I'm saying it now, so everyone witnesses it. Or, maybe you could release one battlemap for each module - start things slow - just the BBEG fight. If things work out, start adding more. Kind of like what WorldWorks is doing, but more universally useful (no slam on them, the 3d terrain looks uber).

Anyways, just my 2 cp.


James Jacobs wrote:
I'd be curios to know, of course, what percentage of the people who buy Pathfinder would be interested in buying battlemats as well...

I would like to insert my answer to James’ request earlier. I am a Superscriber presently. I am also a terrible map drawer. With that being said I have bought several of the Fantastic Locations modules from WotC and at one time had several of the Map Packs from Paizo that were very useful at different times. I would be willing to purchase Battlemats that were either AP specific or of a more generic setting that would lend itself to the AP’s.

If the Battlemats were eventually set as a subscription I would consider subscribing. Please understand that I do not speak for any others, only myself and you would be foolish to base your decision on one or two comments. I just wanted my opinion to be heard.

Just my 2 cp.

The Exchange

Hey Tintagal, I never realized that the ToEE maps I did a search for and found a couple years back were yours. Your work is stellar with maps! I also use Dundjinni (not nearly as well as you) and love the program. Is there a site with a consolidated list of your work? I would love to bookmark it for future use. Also I am running RotRLs and any maps you have available for it (like the Misgivings, Awesome!) would be really nice to have for my games.
Keep up the good works and I hope somehow this all works out to get some battlemaps for the adventures, and some recompense in your pocket.

Liberty's Edge

I don't think I'd want to buy a bunch of full scale vinyl maps, but something akin to the gamemaster map-packs for each pathfinder issue would rock.


You may have already guessed that I'm interested in battle maps. I'd like PDF versions of every map in the APs so I can print them when I play in live games OR use them directly in my online games.

Buying already printed verions interests me less, especially since the Paizo folks have made it clear it will be expensive in that format. But a free PDF verion was included with my subscription to the printed version (assuming it ever happened) then I'd consider it despite the likely high price tag.


James Jacobs wrote:


Rest assured, I'm sure the subject of battlemats will be a topic of discussion at Paizo... you've certainly got our attention. I'd be curios to know, of course, what percentage of the people who buy Pathfinder would be interested in buying battlemats as well...

It wouldn't interest me. I run my Pathfinder games as PBEMs and end up creating my own versions of the maps (more schematic, less art) for my players to use. It's easier than scanning the lot and avoids issues with pixelation, marked secret doors, etc.

While I appreciate the full color maps, I'd do just as well with reserving them for things like cities and overland maps while using blue ink on white for things like dungeons. Granted, that's sure to look like crap in an otherwise visually exciting book but for my purposes it wouldn't make any difference.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Rest assured, I'm sure the subject of battlemats will be a topic of discussion at Paizo... you've certainly got our attention. I'd be curios to know, of course, what percentage of the people who buy Pathfinder would be interested in buying battlemats as well...

Battlemaps have my vote with the following caveat: They include both a physical and a PDF version.


Samnell wrote:
It wouldn't interest me. I run my Pathfinder games as PBEMs and end up creating my own versions of the maps (more schematic, less art) for my players to use. It's easier than scanning the lot and avoids issues with pixelation, marked secret doors, etc.

I'm also DMing a PBEM adventure path (Shackled City) and I would likewise be more interested in player-friendly maps (e.g. no marked secret doors, etc.) in electronic format. I'm not sure I'd pay big bucks for them, though.


I cant wait to run through that dungeon with that map and a bunch of N'wahs shiny shiny paper mini's

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

I'm extremely excited about this product- great news, guys.

Lantern Lodge

Dragnmoon wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
I'd be curios to know, of course, what percentage of the people who buy Pathfinder would be interested in buying battlemats as well...
Have you guys ever thought about doing surveys of your customers when you are thinking about new products? Would they want the product? How much would they pay for it?
While surveys can provide useful information, Paizo should already have access to sales data such as who purchased:
  • Among the Living and flip-mat Theatre;
  • Silent Tide and flip-mat Cathedral;
  • Hydra's fang or Slave Pits of Abasalom and flip-mat Ship;
  • Murder on the Silken Caravan or The Third Riddle and flip-mat Desert;
  • The Third Riddle and map-pack Caravan etc.

(Off the top of my head, I can't think of similar compatibilities between adventure paths and map products, though there may be some?)

While these combinations weren't strictly tailor made for each other or marketed as such, canny GMs are certainly on the look-out for compatabilities such as these.

Paizo try to make their map products generic enough to be suitable to a wide range of situations, which has been good. It shouldn't be too difficult to write scenarios that make good use of map products they've already released, or to make map products that co-incidentally work with already released scenarios. We have been seeing a little of this already as Pathfinder Society scenarios occasionally mention a map product suitable for a particular encounter (eg, Inn or Caravan).

It makes sense, why produce maps that don't work with any of your published adventures, or write adventures that don't work with any of your map products? If you can get the two product types working to support each other (while keeping maps generic enough to be useful beyond a single encounter), you should see greater cross-sales.

Dragnmoon wrote:
For myself there are really 2 things I would Love from you guys, but you have said they are not cost effective. Including the battlemaps that seem really unlikley at this point I would Love pre painted Minis. Though I think your minis you guys put out are great, I would never buy them because they are not pre-painted. But as is for the battlmaps you mentioned that pre-painted minis would just be too expensive.

I completely agree here. I have a tonne of WotC pre-painted plastic minis, and zero unpainted metals. While you can certainly subtitute figures for something similar, if you're playing Forgotten Realms or Eberron, you have precise matches for most of your needs. It would be really cool to have Sinspawn, Grey Maidens, Iconics, recognisable NPC antagonists, Pathfinder Elves with ears that stick out, goblins with football shaped heads, etc for the game we love.

The difficult thing, I think, would be to produce them at an acceptable quality, cost and distribution - we have probably been spoiled by WotC's sets over the last few years. So, unless that situation changes for Paizo, I suspect that's end of discussion.


Paizo Superscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
I'd be curios to know, of course, what percentage of the people who buy Pathfinder would be interested in buying battlemats as well...

I'm unlikely to be interested in battlemaps, for two reasons.

1) I'm running the Pathfinder adventures in 4E, and I end up scaling up most encounter areas by 150% to 200%. Battlemaps at the original scale would likely be too cramped for 4E-style multi-foe scenarios.
2) I'd rather not pay for the ink for "pretty artwork" on a battlemap, whether I'm printing it or it's pre-printed. And I assume it's unlikely that most other possible buyers would want to pay for battlemaps that were mostly just white space with the minimum necessary dark lines (for walls) and colored outlines (for furnishings/obstructions).

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Cintra Bristol wrote:
1) I'm running the Pathfinder adventures in 4E, and I end up scaling up most encounter areas by 150% to 200%. Battlemaps at the original scale would likely be too cramped for 4E-style multi-foe scenarios.

It's not just a 4E thing. Rooms in Pathfinder are cramped, particularly if you have a larger party. I find myself scaling up the rooms on the fly just to give both sides some room to maneuver.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

delabarre wrote:
Cintra Bristol wrote:
1) I'm running the Pathfinder adventures in 4E, and I end up scaling up most encounter areas by 150% to 200%. Battlemaps at the original scale would likely be too cramped for 4E-style multi-foe scenarios.
It's not just a 4E thing. Rooms in Pathfinder are cramped, particularly if you have a larger party. I find myself scaling up the rooms on the fly just to give both sides some room to maneuver.

While that's something that I'm trying to impress upon my authors to keep in mind for some dungeons... sometimes, the point is to have a cramped dungeon. Particularly in the case where you're fighting goblins or kobolds, or particularly in the case where you're going for a more realistic feel for a cramped underground region. It's a balancing act to have big open areas and realistic areas, but I'm unwilling to throw realism completely out the window just for the sake of making things simple on the PCs.

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