Is voting the best way to pick a RPG Superstar?


RPG Superstar™ 2009 General Discussion


Perhaps this is just me playing devil's advocate, but I was wondering if the voting process is really the best way to filter out a Superstar?

Here are some of my random thoughts:

1. As a person who is very involved in both real life and on-line rp'ing communities I know for sure that I could drum up a 'minimum' of 100 votes... that is only with a little bit of pleading. I'm not certain how many people vote, I guess if it's in the thousands then my lousy 100 wouldn't help. If it's in the hundreds, then I could manipulate the polls. If I could do this, then surely there are others that could as well? Is this a valid concern?

2. Good writing is largely an art form -- either you have the ability or you don't! Sure someone can come up with some great ideas and even present them fairly well, but writing a module takes a lot more than plopping a bunch of good ideas together. I've seen this in movies, novels and adventure modules many times -- the author has a great set of plot points but has no idea how to connect them, so they just come up with a lame / forced way to connect the points.

I have seen quite a few people vote for "cool" ideas or "unique" ideas, despite the writer only having average writing skills. I would hate to see a strong writer get bumped out of the competition because their ideas weren't "cool" enough for the masses. Could this happen? (Although I'm not suggesting that talented writers with stale ideas should advance either).

3. The magic item submission is a great quick way to filter out the submissions. Between spelling, grammar and formatting, I'm sure half the entries are tossed before the actual content is even considered. With the great talent present on the judging panel surely they would ensure that only the best of the best proceed?

4. Are we being used for free market research? Is this the way the publishers find out what roleplayers like? Am I a guinea pig? Are we on the RPG industry's version of American Idol? Which judge is taking up Simon's role?

Summary:
Okay, random thoughts aside, the voting process is not completely awful, but I would prefer to see the judge's pick the final candidate. I think the judges are better qualified to make such a selection. I also think that if I were an unsuccessful candidate that I would be able to accept my defeat better at the hands of successful publishers as opposed to an online popularity contest.

Paizo Employee CEO

I will say that the editorial team at Paizo decides which of the non-winners they will use for other Paizo projects. They also decide whether the winner will get any other commissions outside of the one module you get to write by being the winner. So in the most important ways, the editorial team gets to make the final decision. The contest helps them see which contestants have the most promise. All in all, I think it works out well.

-Lisa

Star Voter Season 6

Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:


1. As a person who is very involved in both real life and on-line rp'ing communities I know for sure that I could drum up a 'minimum' of 100 votes... that is only with a little bit of pleading. I'm not certain how many people vote, I guess if it's in the thousands then my lousy 100 wouldn't help. If it's in the hundreds, then I could manipulate the polls. If I could do this, then surely there are others that could as well? Is this a valid concern?

That thought had occurred to me. Hopefully, they have the ability to find such campaigns on the interwebs, although they don't specifically outlaw get-out-the-vote campaigns to my knowledge. I assume that most superstars tell their fellow players about this contest, so even simply being in more campaigns provides an advantage for the down ballot folks. (Look at the difference even having 4 more votes would make in the exit polling.)

Still, my answer is "yes, voting is the best way." After all, part of this contest is to drum up publicity and to restock the writer pipeline. That's much more important now than last year.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16 aka Clandestine

I remember someone from the judge team of 2008 saying that part of the whole idea is raising awareness for the competition, introducing new people to Paizo, the game and the creativity it involves, etc.

Competitors with prominent online presence have an edge over the rest, true. But there is reasoning behind voting, as well.

Dark Archive Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

I say do like the Saw movies, put 'em a maze with traps and puzzles and see who comes out.
You got to want it, baby.
And oh yes, there will be blood....


And as for point 4, I am quite sure Paizo is getting some market research out of the entries, comments and votes...
It might not be the main reason to do it, but, well, it is there.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 7

I think that the Top Chef model of judges picking will find a better result in the end. However, part of the purpose of RPG Superstar, like Idol, is to encourage audience participation, and voting does that.

Besides, just like Lisa pointed out, the editors still get to choose what to do with you after the competition. (How many American Idols got work after that first record deal, anyway?)

Star Voter Season 6

Ross Byers wrote:
(How many American Idols got work after that first record deal, anyway?)

Ten, actually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-selling_American_Idol_alumni

There's 13 records that went at least platinum.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 aka Gamer Girrl

Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:
Perhaps this is just me playing devil's advocate, but I was wondering if the voting process is really the best way to filter out a Superstar?

I've never been into American Idol, etc., as shows to watch regularly, but I would say that voting like this is definitely the way to go. Reason? The public is the consumer, and the folks that advance are decided on by the consumer.

Even the best editors will have their own personal preferences of what is good and what isn't. From comments on this and last year's posts, the voters don't always agree with the judges, and vote for what they like. Even if their faves don't advance, their comments are going to be noted.

And besides the winners on American Idol, many of the second and thirds have made their career, because folks saw they had something to offer.

Here, we have many of last year's submitting and participating, and if they hadn't had that "spark" that attracted the attention, we wouldn't know them as anything other than another poster on these boards :)

Sure, someone could try to pad the votes, but even if they have lock votes from friends, they still have to deliver something to get votes from anyone else :)


Lisa Stevens wrote:

I will say that the editorial team at Paizo decides which of the non-winners they will use for other Paizo projects. They also decide whether the winner will get any other commissions outside of the one module you get to write by being the winner. So in the most important ways, the editorial team gets to make the final decision. The contest helps them see which contestants have the most promise. All in all, I think it works out well.

-Lisa

Thanks everyone for your comments in this thread. The contest is certainly a good way to identify talented writers, and as Lisa Stevens has acknowledged (as well as other posters making comparisions to American Idol) the talented writers will likely be noticed and uitilized, regardless of the voting results.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

While it's certainly possible that a mediocre contestant could drum up enough votes to keep them going in early rounds, as we narrow down the pack, it will take more and more votes to advance; this should make it pretty hard to win RPG Superstar without having actual talent.

(I call this the "Sanjaya Effect.")


Vic Wertz wrote:
(I call this the "Sanjaya Effect.")

Oh my, that made my stomache hurt from laughing so hard. It's so funny because it's so true :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Voting is probably not the best way to *pick* an RPG Superstar, but I bet it's the best way to *get* an RPG Superstar.

Voting contests are very encouraging - you only have to impress your fellows, not the Editors-In-Chief of an institution that you may revere highly. That breaks down the impediments to actually submitting an entry, and gets lots more people involved.

Scarab Sages

It may not be the best method - in the same vein that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all of the others we've tried. There are flaws in the system, but overall, for a contest to determine who gets to sell an adventure (essentially), having the consumers vote on the concepts isn't the worst way I can think of to determine the winner. Setting the contest up in tiers and having well-respected judges comment on each round adds an extra layer of protection.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Lisa Stevens wrote:

I will say that the editorial team at Paizo decides which of the non-winners they will use for other Paizo projects. They also decide whether the winner will get any other commissions outside of the one module you get to write by being the winner. So in the most important ways, the editorial team gets to make the final decision. The contest helps them see which contestants have the most promise. All in all, I think it works out well.

-Lisa

It's quite true. Look at the back cover copy for the first Legacy of Fire AP adventure - featuring a side-trek adventure by James MacKenzie, a hero of last year's country round with the Stained Peaks but who flamed out in the villains round.

Even if you just look at the finalists, Christine's adventure just came out, and that rocks the house. But Rob, Boomer, and I as well as Christine all contributed parts of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting book - I think I did about 30 pages worth and the others did however much their schedules and interests allowed, along with the many other awesome contributors to that book. Boomer just did a Pathfinder Society Scenario, I did the Osirion campaign book with Todd Stewart (sorry about there not being traits in the book - who knew people loved em so much?), between us we have done monsters for bestiaries or for Dungeon Denizens Revisited. Rob and I are both doing upcoming adventures in Legacy of Fire - I wrote #4 (AP 22) and he is just finishing the writing on #6 (AP 24). There's probably a lot more out there that I haven't seen, but there are a lot of opportunities, and a contest like this helps you get noticed, and it does help the publisher get an idea of how people can turn things over on deadline and whether their skills and ideas catch the fancy of a substantial portion of the buying public for Paizo.

Yes, it is great to win the contest, and I surely would like to have taken the top prize, but even though Christine was THE CHAMPION!, the important point in this contest is to get you exposure, and that my lead to opportunities down the road - there is only one SUPERSTAR in each contest, but a number of folks may end up as 'winners.'


Lisa Stevens wrote:

I will say that the editorial team at Paizo decides which of the non-winners they will use for other Paizo projects. They also decide whether the winner will get any other commissions outside of the one module you get to write by being the winner. So in the most important ways, the editorial team gets to make the final decision. The contest helps them see which contestants have the most promise. All in all, I think it works out well.

-Lisa

Has there been any thought towards making the judges votes worth 20 votes a piece? Example:

Standard Paizoan's vote = 1 vote
Judge's vote = 20 votes

This would maintain the power of the public, but also help filter out the "popularity contest" effect.

Just a thought.


Count_Rugen wrote:

Has there been any thought towards making the judges votes worth 20 votes a piece? Example:

Standard Paizoan's vote = 1 vote
Judge's vote = 20 votes

This would maintain the power of the public, but also help filter out the "popularity contest" effect.

Just a thought.

I really believe the interest in RPG Superstar comes from allowing regular RPG gamers to have their vote count. I could see interest wane if people didn't feel they had a say.


The voting's for the best. It's the "populace" that buys this stuff in the end, after all.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

I think Homer Simpson said it best.

Homer Simpson wrote:


When will people learn? Democracy doesn't work.


... another politics thread.


Kruelaid wrote:
... another politics thread.

If you knew anything about democracy, you would know it was not started on the internet. It was started by John Adams, who in turn stole the idea from Ivan Peter Freely. But of course, Ivan created the whole 5th Century notion of the perfect message board post, which in turn inspired nazis and war crimes conducted exclusively by the political opponents who I won't name, but who should be implicit from what I've said so far.

So, no, democracy doesn't not work.

Please don't waste anyone's time further. You clearly have nothing worthwhile to say on this topic.

Spoiler:

How's that for a politics thread!

Community / Forums / Archive / Paizo / RPG Superstar™ / Previous Contests / RPG Superstar™ 2009 / General Discussion / Is voting the best way to pick a RPG Superstar? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion