Feat Chains and Strength Bonuses


High Level Play


While this issue comes up before high level, it really gets complicated once you get to the point that there are feats that increase critical ranges, and class abilities that increase critical multipliers.

There are now several feats that allow you to add your strength bonus, or half your strength bonus, etc, to your damage roll. In some cases, it becomes confusing if, for example, the "double your strength damage" replaces your normal strength damage, or is addition to it.

I don't think this is a flaw in the feats, per se, but I do think that, especially when a feat is part of a chain, it might be a good idea to point out what the final bonus for any prerequisite feats would be (i.e. "if you have feat X and Y, your total strength bonus is your normal strength x3, and if you attack two handed, it is x5").

(Note: I'm not using actual numbers from any existing feats, I'm just throwing out pseudo examples)


Sorry but I played a barbarian with all those feats and found no real problem.

However examples are always good.

Shadow Lodge

i think he is refering to ovrehand chop, and backswing in particular. adding StrX2 instead of Str X1.5. if this is the case. O.C. is for primary atack, and B.S. is for secondary swings, i.e. 2nd,3rd,4th. I can't really think of any other feats off the top of my head that really have an effect on Str, but then again, i tend to play finesse based characters.


Daniel Simonson wrote:
i think he is refering to ovrehand chop, and backswing in particular. adding StrX2 instead of Str X1.5. if this is the case. O.C. is for primary atack, and B.S. is for secondary swings, i.e. 2nd,3rd,4th. I can't really think of any other feats off the top of my head that really have an effect on Str, but then again, i tend to play finesse based characters.

I understand how it works, I'm just saying that for the final version, it might be nice to clarify what the totals are.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
KnightErrantJR wrote:
Daniel Simonson wrote:
i think he is refering to ovrehand chop, and backswing in particular. adding StrX2 instead of Str X1.5. if this is the case. O.C. is for primary atack, and B.S. is for secondary swings, i.e. 2nd,3rd,4th. I can't really think of any other feats off the top of my head that really have an effect on Str, but then again, i tend to play finesse based characters.
I understand how it works, I'm just saying that for the final version, it might be nice to clarify what the totals are.

I think it is also unclear what stacks, without checking for obvious flaws I present this example for hyperbole sake:

Can I overhandchop-powerattack-backswing-vitalstrike-cleave a foe?

Scarab Sages

Galnörag wrote:
KnightErrantJR wrote:
Daniel Simonson wrote:
i think he is refering to ovrehand chop, and backswing in particular. adding StrX2 instead of Str X1.5. if this is the case. O.C. is for primary atack, and B.S. is for secondary swings, i.e. 2nd,3rd,4th. I can't really think of any other feats off the top of my head that really have an effect on Str, but then again, i tend to play finesse based characters.
I understand how it works, I'm just saying that for the final version, it might be nice to clarify what the totals are.

I think it is also unclear what stacks, without checking for obvious flaws I present this example for hyperbole sake:

Can I overhandchop-powerattack-backswing-vitalstrike-cleave a foe?

No, Overhand Chop specifically is a Full-attack action, as is cleave and backswing I believe. I don't have my book or PDF with me. That is the blancing point with many of these feats.


"i think he is refering to ovrehand chop, and backswing in particular. adding StrX2 instead of Str X1.5. if this is the case. O.C. is for primary atack, and B.S. is for secondary swings, i.e. 2nd,3rd,4th. I can't really think of any other feats off the top of my head that really have an effect on Str, but then again, i tend to play finesse based characters."

That's not how I read it in the book

Overhand chop is a standard action where if you hit you double the strength bonus instead of doing 1.5 times. Backswing is full attack action where the first attack gets double the strength bonus or triple at high enough level on the first attack only.

So this would mean that you can Overhand Chop and move in you turn. For BackSwing you can use it as a full attack action which is full round action. You can't use Cleave with Backswing because Cleave is it's own full round attack action. Since you can only do 1 full round attack action in turn you can't use both. You could use power attack on either though as it is not a action all and just applies negative to hit for bonuses to damage. Vital strick would work because it applies to any full round attack action where you can sacrifice 1 attack to do double damage dice.

So you could Cleave with vital strike and power attack or you could use Backswing with vital strike and power attack. You could use power attack with over hand chop but not vital strike unless you turn go full round and have the additional attacks. You can't use Cleave and Backswing because they are both full round attack actions. Now I'm not sure with Over Hand Chop. Over Hand Chop is a standard action and the full attack action doesn't say you can use standard action in it. But you can use a standard action to attack decide to make it full attack action and make any additional attacks. So you could over hand chop using Cleave, power attack and vitals strike.

This isn't really clear though but I think you get to add OverHand chop as the standard action of the full attack action then apply Backswing turning the standard attack action into a full round attack action which you can do under the rules. Now backswing applies damage only on the first attack so you'd double it all up. So say you have +3 strength bonus and you do this you get Weapon damage +6 (Overhand Chop) +6(Backswing). Then you make you 2nd attack. If you can make 3rd you'd get +9 for the backswing. Now that seems pretty nasty. Now add vitals stick and power attack and YIKES. If that hits it's going to hurt.

Confusing, yes and I'm not even sure I have 100% right.

Shadow Lodge

that was alot to take in.....

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