Crime & Punishment in Absalom

[Doug Miles]

I admit that I’m quick to nix anyone else’s ideas when it involves complicating the status quo, so here’s a chance to nix me back. I’m wondering if anyone else has felt there’s a place in the campaign for a code of laws concerning adventuring in Absalom. So far this type of problem has been dealt with in the scenario, but intentionally left vague for the GM to handle in his/her own way. For example, in Act 2 of Frozen Fingers at Midnight

Spoiler:

when the PCs attempt to break into the warehouse occupied by Bengeirr & his men there’s a possibility that the city watch is called. Probably due to the word count limitation of the scenario, the consequences are left up to the GM if the PCs get arrested. Some tables I have run have outright murdered Bengeirr & his men, and some have acted with restraint.

As often happens in these situations, there’s a bit of improvisation and the PCs are allowed to continue with the scenario for the sake of time.
Sometimes there are unforeseen issues, such as in Silent Tide

Spoiler:

when a rebuking cleric took control of several Black Echelon Operatives and wanted to bring them along with him to the next encounter. What are the consequences for associating with undead in Absalom? How accepted is evil magic in the city? On one hand I think a panic would occur if this happened but on the other hand I don’t want to prohibit a clever player from taking advantage of a class feature.

Looking towards the future, I can see more complications arising from two viewpoints clashing. Viewpoint #1 is unless it says you can’t do it then it should be allowed. This might mean that a wizard can throw a fireball into a tavern in Absalom because there are bad guys inside who threatened him. Viewpoint #2 is there should be consequences for lawless behavior when players don’t restrain themselves. This means that a PC might be arrested and unable to finish the scenario because he killed an ‘innocent’ opponent using sneak attack in front of witnesses. Both viewpoints can be moderated by a good GM with a firm hand. However a GM can’t think of everything. In its current form, there are no time units to penalize a PC who gets arrested for arson or murder (even though he later might be acquitted). Should the GM simply tell the player that they can’t cast the fireball in the first place? Is withholding a Prestige Award point a fitting penalty? What about a GP fine? It doesn’t seem an appropriate penalty for the crime.
I’m interested in what my peers think about these issues. Are you comfortable with the status quo? Would you like more guidelines in the scenarios? Would you feel that a Crime & Punishment chapter in a future PSGtOP might be helpful?

[Chris Mortika]

In "Slave Pits of Absalom",

Spoiler:

the party needs to join into a riot at a seedy bar, to find an informant, and the monetary rewards suggest that the party robs the place afterwards.

[Montalve]

Chris Mortika wrote:

In "Slave Pits of Absalom",

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

thatis in the puddles... in the puddles thereis little law... thereare some unpaid guards... but they won't protect that kind of bar... but otherwise I believe they will cut your hand for stealing

also itsnoted that if the council would look to other place if someone triesto save slaves... but also would not careif they are killed...EXCEPT if they use MAGIC... the Primarch would take it as a personal insult

[ESSEL]

Doug Miles wrote:

Would you feel that a Crime & Punishment chapter in a future PSGtOP might be helpful?

Maybe simpler would be a definition of "evil acts" .

Cause most evil acts are comitted while pursuing a "greater good" of course...

Nevertheless, a PC comitting an (or many) evil act during an adventure should have the GM mention it on is adventure Chronicle, and a count of these evil actions should be kept by the PC.

Then,it would be up to the campaign staff or mod writers to decide to use or not this "evil act count".

Let's say...a fee could be asked, when entering the Cheliax capital, for any PC having NEVER comitted an evil act!!!

[Montalve]

ESSEL wrote:

Maybe simpler would be a definition of "evil acts" .

Cause most evil acts are comitted while pursuing a "greater good" of course...

Let's say...a fee could be asked, when entering the Cheliax capital, for any PC having NEVER comitted an evil act!!!

unfortunately the law dowsn't work like that :P

Law is Law... nothing to do with good or evil... ask that to any cleric of Abadar!

for example... "Freeing slaves" is an act of good... still only in Andoran would be applauded, in many other place (including Absalom) you would sent to prison for "deft of property" and hang or beheaded in the case you killed any slaver in process...

fortunately in Absalom everything is forgotten if there was a Gnoll involved.. those things are illegal in Absalom... and if you doesn't make to much a noise tha authorities would not care... except if you use magic... oh... then prepare.... someone is very pissed of when people use magic to commit crimes...

in Kovosa if you are crimial but part of an athorized band or part of the guild and you are arrested, you pay a fine and you are out of the problem...

... i ranted to much... i mean... this has nothing to do with evil or bad, but with laws in different places.

[ESSEL]

Montalve wrote:

Law is Law... nothing to do with good or evil... ask that to any cleric of Abadar!

Yeah, I am a bit "off topic"...

But I think I would be a mistake to put to much emphasis on Laws in PFS:
*you don't want to fill word-counted mods with pages of laws;
*you don't want to put the same emphasis on laws as in RPGA's Living Greyhawk.

Otherwise we may suggest a "general definition" of evil acts:
*unneeded killing of NPC's;
*summoning evil creatures
*casting spells from the evil domain
*controlling undead, etc...

Then we may calculate the REPUTATION of PFS PCs:
= number of PA won minus number of evil actions comitted!

Just a suggestion...

[Joshua J. Frost]

I'd rather the GM simply say, "No, you can't do that" than create a sub-system where we have to determine alignment shifts. Generally, players will play inside their alignment and inside the confines of the scenario location. City scenarios are hard because those confines are usually public and located in a municipality of laws and restrictions--so Pathfinders in city scenarios have to be a lot more careful than Pathfinders raiding a gnoll village in the middle of the forest.

In the case of the city scenario, if a player says, "hey, I randomly bash the head in of that inn keeper" I'd rather the GM said, "You can't do that--doing that brings down the full force of the city's law and your character goes to prison. So let's say you didn't do that." Given that scenarios have a 4-hour time limit, characters who just bash the heads in of random NPCs are a disruption and GMs should work around disruptions (even by fiat) to insure the majority of the players at his/her table are having a good time and are getting ample opportunity to finish the scenario in the time limit.

My (official) two cents.