Duelists. Why only swashbucklers?

[Baldy]

Why is this prestige class only relegated to the swashbuckler style weapon masters? It has all the qualities or abilities one would associate a weapon master to have, but you may only do it with a single, one-handed or light weapon.

This class should not be so narrowly focused. Samurai were great at dueling with katana or even polearms. If you don't believe a glaive can be used to strike very accuratly or deflect blows you should meet my roomate who can plant the tip of his glaive on any specific point of the body, (usually face), that he wants, and that's with only a few years of SCA training.

Ultimately I would like to see the one prestige class I've found that even remotely reflects what a true weapon master can do in terms of mobility, defense, and intellect, be more than a musketeer or zorro. The changes required would be minimal to keep it balanced. I realize that precise strike plus a two hander and power attack would get out of control, but those are easy fixes.

Any thoughts?

[Turin the Mad]

Well, most of the out of control elements are reigned in by "light" and "one-handed" weapons in the prestige class description, keeping damage output from getting too obscene.

For a weapon master spin, your thoughts on how to do so to get the ball rolling?

[flynnster]

Baldy wrote:

This class should not be so narrowly focused. Samurai were great at dueling with katana or even polearms. If you don't believe a glaive can be used to strike very accuratly or deflect blows you should meet my roomate who can plant the tip of his glaive on any specific point of the body, (usually face), that he wants, and that's with only a few years of SCA training.

*snicker* Yeah, cuz SCA rocks!!! *snicker*

[Abraham spalding]

flynnster wrote:

Baldy wrote:

This class should not be so narrowly focused. Samurai were great at dueling with katana or even polearms. If you don't believe a glaive can be used to strike very accuratly or deflect blows you should meet my roomate who can plant the tip of his glaive on any specific point of the body, (usually face), that he wants, and that's with only a few years of SCA training.

*snicker* Yeah, cuz SCA rocks!!! *snicker*

Nothing wrong with the SCA. It's kind of funny seeing someone that plays table top snicker at those that take it one step further and practice the history.

[Baldy]

Turin the Mad wrote:

Well, most of the out of control elements are reigned in by "light" and "one-handed" weapons in the prestige class description, keeping damage output from getting too obscene.

For a weapon master spin, your thoughts on how to do so to get the ball rolling?

I would add prereq's to the prc like;

(Sense motive 6 ranks) a master must be able to read an opponent in order to better predict their actions.
(Combat expertise) This feat is a great base, (or stepper feat), for the ridiculous AC boosts the class gets at higher levels and also adds a built in prereq of 13 intelligence or better to the class. I'm actually surprised it's not on there already.
(Weapon focus or Weapons training +1) with chosen weapon/weapons.

I would change precise strike to work more like canny defense:
You can add one point of your INT modifier to damage per class level.
In addition it would allow the master to use weapon finesse with the chosen weapon if it is not light.
Finally, this ability may not be used in conjunction with power attack.

Lastly, change Precise strike, Parry, Riposte, Elaborate defense, Deflect arrows, and Crippling critical so that they only work with the chosen weapon/weapons.

Thoughts?

[KaeYoss]

The PrC should remain narrowly focussed. It's a PrC, not a base class. I really hate generic PrCs - where's the prestige in that.

Note, too, that the Duelist is not about weapon masters. It's about duelists. And yes, it's about swashbuckling duelists.

The class is not mean to be a generic weapon master (that guy's called fighter), or even generic guy-going-one-on-one, and its abilities reflect his specialisation.

Other specialised fighting styles should have their own PrC, like a iaijutsu master for samurai duelists.

[Dragonchess Player]

Note that PrC's exist for three main reasons: 1) to more concretely focus a character around a specific concept, 2) to expand on or enhance certain class abilities, and 3) to make a specific character concept more mechanically viable. The duelist falls primarily in 1) and 3).

You can easily use the PFBeta fighter to make a more generic swashbuckler (or weapon master). However, addressing 3), a melee combatant using a single light/one-handed weapon and no shield is at a mechanical disadvantage compared to one using a two-handed weapon, two weapons, or weapon and shield.