Define magic

[bden]

is magic all the same for every race?
Shouldn't the race your playing define the type of magic your using or spells your casting

elven magic
fey magic
devine magic
dragon magic
gnome magic

It would add a lot of flavor dont you think if a elven wizard would cast different spells or manifest magic in a different way a human wizard does.
Maybe add domains or shcools of magic based on race
add different effects at the end of the spell

(Elven magic is old and sophisticated
being able to live for thousands of years An elven wizard can spend centuries perfecting just one spell
search the world or gently influence the growth of plants to create the best spell components) shouldn't it make make a difference if a fireball hits you when is has been perfected for 200 years .

[veebles]

racial magic already exists in the race descriptions
but agree it could do with a bit more flavour added
a gnome wizard should always be different to an elf wizard for example
nothing earth shattering, just something that sets each race apart in every proffession including casters
rather than just +2 to this and -2 to that
seed roleplaying instead of number crunching ;)

[JoelF847]

I think that racial magic should include the mechanical crunchy bits also. It would also be a good idea to expand the concept of racial magic to other races than elves and gnomes. An example would be giving dwarves a dwarven magic racial ability or feat that gives them bonuses with earth/metal/creation magic of +2 caster levels, or something like that. This would cover magic stone, fabricate, major and minor creation, stone shape, stone tell, wall of stone, wall of iron, transmute rock to mud, transmute mud to rock, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, passwall, etc.

Other ideas could be halfling magic granting a bonus to spells that grant luck bonuses or bonuses to skill checks, orc magic could grant a bonus to magic that enhances weapons or armor, etc.

[Kalyth]

bden wrote:

is magic all the same for every race?

Shouldn't the race your playing define the type of magic your using or spells your casting

elven magic
fey magic
devine magic
dragon magic
gnome magic

It would add a lot of flavor dont you think if a elven wizard would cast different spells or manifest magic in a different way a human wizard does.
Maybe add domains or shcools of magic based on race
add different effects at the end of the spell

(Elven magic is old and sophisticated
being able to live for thousands of years An elven wizard can spend centuries perfecting just one spell
search the world or gently influence the growth of plants to create the best spell components) shouldn't it make make a difference if a fireball hits you when is has been perfected for 200 years .

One way this could be reflected is spells known only to that race.

Elves have developed ancient spells that only they know and are closely guarded secrets they do not share with wizards of other races.

Gnomes likewise could have very special spells that they also guard jeously.

The only problem with this is that there is nothing (save the DMs will) to prevent a human wizard from saying I would like to research a new spell that does the exact same thing. The DM could simply make it extremely difficult but then you get into the arguement of why it is more difficult to create a spell that does X as opposed to a spell that does Y. If you can already point to the special elven spell as already occomplishing X effect at Z level. But sinse we are talking about flavor, flavor is completely in control of the DM anyway.

Alternately you could add School modifiers. Gnomes already get a +1 to the DC of the Illusion school. Likewise I think elves get a bonus to Dispel magic or to Caster level checks (I dont have my PF book in front of me at the moment). So to a degree this has already been done.

Perhaps racial magical feats as well.

Earthen Lore (Dwarf Only)
This feat grants the Dwarf a +1 caster level and +1 to the DC of all spells with the Earth descriptor.

[Nero24200]

Honesty I think this should be more of a fluff thing than anything else. What if you want a race to be different in your setting? It becomes alot harder if certain mechanical aspects are hard-wired to the race.

If you want a certain race to be famous for certain spells, simply say to your players that race X just happen to consider themselves experts in this area of magic, and give a few of the NPC's of that race spell focus.

Besides, adding the limitation of "Only this race can use this spell" can create problems...what if you have a dwarf who was raised in elven lands? Does he/she not get elven magic? And likewise, should he/she automatically get an option for dwarven magic despite possibly never going near a dwarven socitety?

[Duncan & Dragons]

bden wrote:

is magic all the same for every race?

Shouldn't the race your playing define the type of magic your using or spells your casting

elven magic
fey magic
devine magic
dragon magic
gnome magic

It would add a lot of flavor dont you think if a elven wizard would cast different spells or manifest magic in a different way a human wizard does.

For the core rules I like racial bloodlines for Sorcerer's only. Wizard's are about what spells they choose to learn. Although, a 1,000 year old Elf or Dragon might have some interesting, unique spells. Maybe unique Prestige Classes with racial restrictions?

That said, it could be a fun campaign setting to have racial restrictions on magic. In my list of want-to-be-run campaigns is the world where Humans have been destroyed. The races are affiliated with different elements; Dwarves- Earth & Steel, Elves- Wood & Water, Geniekin- Weather & Air, Dragonkin- Light & Fire, Halflings- Creation & Positive Energy. Races can only use their own type of magic. Then the Humans, affiliated with Undeath & Negative Energy, show up seeking revenge. But it is too restrictive on the players for more than a short run campaign.

[bden]

i have a copy of elves of Golarion and there is some nice flavor in the traits and recipies given there but still nothing to make the elven wizard look different from any other spellcasters

Is there some books from d&d... to pathfinder
talking about the magical evolution or differences through race

Some sorcerer bloodlines do point to actualy what im trying to say

[newless cluebie]

You should definitely take a look at Arcana Evolved. There's all sorts of racial magic, and it's really well done.

[bden]

newless cluebie wrote:

You should definitely take a look at Arcana Evolved. There's all sorts of racial magic, and it's really well done.

it does look pretty cool

[Kalyth]

Nero24200 wrote:

Honesty I think this should be more of a fluff thing than anything else. What if you want a race to be different in your setting? It becomes alot harder if certain mechanical aspects are hard-wired to the race.

If you want a certain race to be famous for certain spells, simply say to your players that race X just happen to consider themselves experts in this area of magic, and give a few of the NPC's of that race spell focus.

Besides, adding the limitation of "Only this race can use this spell" can create problems...what if you have a dwarf who was raised in elven lands? Does he/she not get elven magic? And likewise, should he/she automatically get an option for dwarven magic despite possibly never going near a dwarven socitety?

That dwarf that was raised by elves, whoudl he still have is proficience in dwarven war axe? Or would he still get many of the other dwarven traits based on upbringing? Would the elf raised by humans still get proficience in Bows? A good number of the racial traits are already based on "up-bringing" rather than inborn abilities. So I wouldn't see a problem adding a few more. Though I would prefer it be in the form of feats availible to specific races.

As for "spells only x race can use" that was not exactly what I was suggesting. I was suggesting spells that only x race could start with or obtain easily. Wizards of other races could learn them if they could some how convince an Elf, gnome, etc... to teach them the spell or capture a spell book containing the spell. I would assume most wizards would horde their known spells greatly and be very reluctant to trade them. For knowledge is power and the few people that possess said knowledge the more valuabel the knowledge is. It would add flavor to the magic of each race if their were ancient magical secrets (spells) that each had developed over the years.

[veebles]

list of spell-like abilities to choose from, if become a caster may do part of the trick ;)
DM can customise the list to suit the setting - including no choices
these don't have to be listed spells either, which makes them even more racial
a sort of "coming of age" thing that happens, not something learned
becoming a caster triggers it

[Xaaon of Xen'Drik]

It doesn't belong in the core book, IMO. Racial magic choices are based upon setting. Just look at DArk Sun, that has a comepltely differnt magic system...Eberron, race doesn't matter as much as nationality...threfore, it shouldn't be in the core rulebook.

[bden]

Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:

It doesn't belong in the core book, IMO. Racial magic choices are based upon setting. Just look at DArk Sun, that has a comepltely differnt magic system...Eberron, race doesn't matter as much as nationality...threfore, it shouldn't be in the core rulebook.

I do agree with you but only partialy

different regions may have some different spells added for flavor that region and its very good
also different worlds like darksun and other campain seting may have different spell systems entirely

if i play an elven wizard i choose spells to avoid or minimise combat and support my comrades if they are tired
when i play a human i choose a more direct and destructive style
as a gnome my spells would be centered on deceit and lies (illusions)

there is no edge between races some + 1 or +2 but that's it

[veebles]

agree with you there bden
this is about the core racial traits that get sub-culture adjustments per setting
it sets the format for adding races in a later book