But I want to write MY way, not Paizo's restricting way!


RPG Superstar™ 2009 General Discussion

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Grand Lodge

Okay this spawned from reading another topic and so many people kept complaining about there is no "right" way to write and that these restrictions were unfair and kills creativity.

I found this out in cyberland somewhere. And I think this should kill any such complaints from now on.

Half-Truth: "Once I'm in with a good publisher - I can write whatever I want..."

Whole truth:"If you want to stay with that good publisher you better write, what they want, when they want it, in the way they want it."

You're going to tell the publisher that you will only write what YOU want to write? Do you really think any publishing house is going to hire a writer that won't do what they want them to do? Unless you are Susie Bright or Anne Rice: "Game-Over, man. Game-Over." [note: I have no idea who Susie Bright is]

Time to go back to your desk, find a new pen name, punch out yet another novel - and go through the whole damn thing all over again to find another publisher. Only this time your new publishing house will call your old publishing house and ask what the problem was. Why aren't you with Them anymore?

Let me repeat myself: Do you really think a publishing house is going to hire a writer that won't write what they want them to write?

You want to make money? Then you knuckle under and Work your butt off to deliver what the publisher is asking for.

Writing for a living is about sitting at a desk, in an office, every day and WRITING whether or not you `feel like it'. Does this make you less artistic? Does this mean that you are not being creative? Does this make you a hack writer?

Forget all that stuff - it makes you EMPLOYED.

What else would you call it? Authors telecommute their work - and progress - to their editors and get paid for it. The faster they write the faster they're paid. The better they conform to the publishing house's demands, the better they are paid. End story.

Writing is NOT about creativity. It's about Money. A publisher is in the business of selling Books or Magazines - not displaying Art or promoting Literature. They are looking for what THEY want, WHEN they want it in the WAY they want it. Period. If you can sneak interesting, different and Creative writing in between their formulaic demands GREAT! They Love that! But in the mean time - the rest of your work had better conform to what they want.

What if the Muse strikes and you get a terrific idea? Great! Write it between assignments and make the publisher PAY through the Nose to get it.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is that. Maybe not succinct, but it is the truth.

Dark Archive

As a guy on a beer commercial said: Brilliant!

Well said Sir.. Well said.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 aka Gamer Girrl

Bravo!

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

Another way to spin it:

Publishers have proven product lines that sell. They need authors to help them sell their stuff...not someone else's unproven ideas. Once you've established yourself as a writer who can reliably help them produce quality stuff under their product lines and using their guidelines, then you can risk pitching them your new idea. And, if they like what you've done in the past for them, maybe they'll trust you enough to take a gamble on what you want to write...in the way you want to write it. Until then, follow their guidelines or they'll find someone else just as talented (or more) who will...

It's as simple as that. And, if you can't adhere to that because of your own artistic integrity...the only option left to you is to start your own publishing company so you can dictate what you write and how you write it without having to follow anyone else's guidelines. But, of course, if you do that, you'll take on the exact same risk other publishers face. And that risk is exactly why you (as well as the other publishers) will seek to control what gets written for your company by establishing certain guidelines and restrictions.

Just my two-cents,
--Neil


That really seems like going much too far to the opposite extreme. Certainly a writer can't get everything the way he wants it, but the editor/publisher shouldn't be a dictator, either. Ideally, it should be a creative relationship between publisher and writer, although of course within the limits set by the publisher. That's the way to get the best material in my opinion.

And as far as creativity goes - I'd really expect that a publisher who doesn't look for at least some amount of creativity in their writers probably won't be in business for all that long. Although the market for crappy books is probably bigger than one could hope for.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

No publisher I've ever written for (or submitted to) has locked down all creativity entirely for their freelancers. Clearly, that wouldn't foster a good relationship. Instead, every guideline I've ever found has been exactly that...a guideline. There's still a huge landscape available to apply your personal creativity. You just have to do it within the loose guidelines they provide.

Paizo is no different. In fact, they're less restrictive than many other publishers. And most of their guidelines actually enhance the creativity process by jumpstarting your imagination and encouraging you to enhance their world of products.

--Neil


I got the format wrong because the zip file didn't want to open til after the stuff was due, and the submissions that won last year were under different rules I guess. I guess i shouldn't have used them for reference.

Liberty's Edge

Lanfranc wrote:

That really seems like going much too far to the opposite extreme. Certainly a writer can't get everything the way he wants it, but the editor/publisher shouldn't be a dictator, either. Ideally, it should be a creative relationship between publisher and writer, although of course within the limits set by the publisher. That's the way to get the best material in my opinion.

And as far as creativity goes - I'd really expect that a publisher who doesn't look for at least some amount of creativity in their writers probably won't be in business for all that long. Although the market for crappy books is probably bigger than one could hope for.

I see your point and I agree with your assessment of the relationship between publisher and author, but the OP is also correct in his statements. In truth, what you've described is exactly the perfect publisher/author relationship - but none of us are perfect.

I spent some time as a spec script reader for Star Trek: TNG and DS9. We were always looking for that spark of creativity but within the confines of the Star Trek universe. That meant sticking to the main cast of characters and within an alloted time slot of 42 minutes - or about 45-60 pages. Also, if a pitch or a story looked as though it would need tons of special effects it might be pushed aside due to budget constraints. Those were really pretty loose guidelines, though, and plenty of people were able to stick within and them and still show quite a bit of creativity whether they sold a story or not.

Any good publisher looks for an author's creativity, but any good author also needs to respect the boundaries of the assignment given. We were delighted to find new nuggets of material and fresh blood is always good now and then but anyone who resisted following the basic precepts was rejected.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 aka Tarren Dei

Krome wrote:

[note: I have no idea who Susie Bright is]

Oh! Oh! I got that one!

Spoiler:

Susie Bright's a pro-sex feminist, activist, and writer. She founded the erotica magazine for lesbian womenOn Our Backs.

What colour pie does that trivia answer get me?


Wow Krome, that is a pretty jaded look at things. You really have to seperate who you are writing for, and what you are writing. Screenplays, novels, etc are much less restricted (as pointed out by the SNG example) and most books are pretty much a matter of if the publisher likes what you have creatively written and submitted to them, not a matter of some format.
The "rant" in the other area was based on the fact that suddenly, what appeared to be a new rule for the contest appeared AFTER submission, and so some of us were seeking clarification on whether or not that would invalidate our already submitted item. The "argument" was not that we wanted to write however we wanted to write. In fact, it wasn't even an argument at all. Just a moment of panic for those of us who maybe are a bit more creative in our style. The contest rules did not state that you could NOT embellish on your item. In fact, it said you could use elements of Golarion and other Pathfinder supplements, but you might shoot yourself in the foot as two of the three judges were not well versed in that material.
I agree, if you work for a magazine, newspaper, or other periodical, you are subject to what they want you to write (subject matter), how you write it (Chicago Style, MLA, etc), how long (word count), and when it is due (deadline). Novels, screenplays and other artistic areas like that are pretty loose in the time frame. Book deals usually have something along the lines of "You need to write X number of books by this date". I do not see the point of bashing creativity. I for one do not want to see the world become a wasteland of generic, formatted, hack writing. I don't think the people at Paizo want that either. I do not understand your outburst sir.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Epic Meepo

Also worth considering: the law of supply and demand. There are more people who want to get published than there are projects that actually do get published. The publisher has more leverage to make demands than the author, because the author is almost always replaceable*.

*Unless your name is so famous, anything you write becomes a bestseller. At which point your writing skills are no longer needed, because you can just ask your publisher to assign you a staff of ghost writers.

Grand Lodge

Lanfranc wrote:

That really seems like going much too far to the opposite extreme. Certainly a writer can't get everything the way he wants it, but the editor/publisher shouldn't be a dictator, either. Ideally, it should be a creative relationship between publisher and writer, although of course within the limits set by the publisher. That's the way to get the best material in my opinion.

And as far as creativity goes - I'd really expect that a publisher who doesn't look for at least some amount of creativity in their writers probably won't be in business for all that long. Although the market for crappy books is probably bigger than one could hope for.

Remember *I* didn't write this. If you don't like it try taking it up with an editor for a major publishing company. I think since they sell millions of billions of dollars of published material, they might know just a bit MORE than us mere wanna be authors.

I am curious though, how many magazine articles, adventures, stories, novels and books have you had published?

Liberty's Edge

Krome wrote:


I am curious though, how many magazine articles, adventures, stories, novels and books have you had published?

Van Gogh was an utter failure as an artist by these standards. He sold a few paintings to his brother-in-law who felt sorry for him.


Incidentally, not everyone who can write is publishing novels, stories, and get screenplays produced.

I'm sitting at my desk writing this morning, and getting paid. I even popped off a few PBP posts on the sly while I was doing it.

Liberty's Edge

I think Rob Liefeld made more money than Vincent Van Gogh.


Exactly five. None fantasy related (have never submitted anything fantasy, although I did editorial for a friends game once). One magazine article with less than 24 hours notice for deadline. You seem to think that money is what is most important here, or at least the determining factor in what's good.

I'd rather be a Van Gogh than a Pollack any day. Or a Donaldson over a Jordan to bring it back home to fantasy (although Jordan more proves the point about lack of strict guidelines...yeesh!).

Anyway, don't wanna do battle with you sir. It just struck me odd that the topic was brought up, and I am opposed to going quietly into that good night, and often choose the road less-traveled.

Liberty's Edge

Heathansson wrote:
I think Rob Liefeld made more money than Vincent Van Gogh.

Perhaps a comparison in the book world would be Harper Lee (To Kill A Mockingbird) and J.K. Rowling (Harry Potter and Everything). Both are excellent authors and quite successful but Lee's work is the only book she ever published and, while it's well known in literature, it's not as widely read as Rowling's multi-million dollar series. Is either author better than the other? Only by subjective opinion.

Creativity can't be constrained - if an author or screenwriter is good enough, his work will be good even when he's writing to someone else's rules. In fact, he will stand out more with a good story that's written to someone else's rules. It makes people curious what kind of stories he can write when given free reign.

Liberty's Edge

Tarren Dei wrote:
Krome wrote:

[note: I have no idea who Susie Bright is]

Oh! Oh! I got that one!

** spoiler omitted **

What colour pie does that trivia answer get me?

Rainbow?

Grand Lodge

Godsdog10 wrote:

Wow Krome, that is a pretty jaded look at things. You really have to seperate who you are writing for, and what you are writing. Screenplays, novels, etc are much less restricted (as pointed out by the SNG example) and most books are pretty much a matter of if the publisher likes what you have creatively written and submitted to them, not a matter of some format.

The "rant" in the other area was based on the fact that suddenly, what appeared to be a new rule for the contest appeared AFTER submission, and so some of us were seeking clarification on whether or not that would invalidate our already submitted item. The "argument" was not that we wanted to write however we wanted to write. In fact, it wasn't even an argument at all. Just a moment of panic for those of us who maybe are a bit more creative in our style. The contest rules did not state that you could NOT embellish on your item. In fact, it said you could use elements of Golarion and other Pathfinder supplements, but you might shoot yourself in the foot as two of the three judges were not well versed in that material.
I agree, if you work for a magazine, newspaper, or other periodical, you are subject to what they want you to write (subject matter), how you write it (Chicago Style, MLA, etc), how long (word count), and when it is due (deadline). Novels, screenplays and other artistic areas like that are pretty loose in the time frame. Book deals usually have something along the lines of "You need to write X number of books by this date". I do not see the point of bashing creativity. I for one do not want to see the world become a wasteland of generic, formatted, hack writing. I don't think the people at Paizo want that either. I do not understand your outburst sir.

First, as I said clearly, I did not write that. Second there was no mysterious rule that appeared after the fact. It was all pretty darn clear at the outset. Write a wondrous item using SRD or Pathfinder Beta, using existing wondrous items as examples in the format Paizo has chosen.

Then people start whining about magic swords not being eligible, or that they used outside rules or didn't follow the creation rules, they added extensive back story where no wondrous item has ever used that, and they didn't follow the format chosen... Not a single one of these rules were new or mysterious. They had been discussed a year ago extensively. If someone is incapable of doing the proper research before seeking a publishing deal, then they have no business in the business. One should not forget, RPG Superstar is not about stoking egos, it is about winning a publishing deal.

And no one is bashing creativity at all. I fail to see how that falls into the post.

Fact is, if you cannot follow directions, no matter how "creative" you think you might be, you cannot get published by anyone. Do you really think Paizo wants to publish the coolest adventure ever written, if it runs 20 pages over their possible page limit, that they will publish the greatest superhero adventure since the specialize in fantasy, or that it is horribly worded?

To refresh your memory here, look at Hook Mounatin Massacre by Logue. How many times did he have to apologize for screwing up the story because he wrote too many pages. Paizo ha some serious editing to do to fix the problem. They published it. They almost had to. Short of doing a major in house rewrite from scratch they were committed to publishing it. They had to rework it. And it really is a great adventure, IF you get past all the errors, incomplete story lines.

Logue also has some great sci-fi adventures, but I notice that Paizo has not published any of those. They do not fit with their goals.

And yeah, for several pages and occasional repeats, it just kept coming back up. "My creativity should not be discarded just because I can't follow the rules."

Quite simply put, if someone cannot be creative in the rules required, they quite simply are NOT creative; just egotistic.

Scarab Sages

Lord Fyre wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
Krome wrote:


I am curious though, how many magazine articles, adventures, stories, novels and books have you had published?

Van Gogh was an utter failure as an artist by these standards. He sold a few paintings to his brother-in-law who felt sorry for him.

I would also point out that Van Gogh was financially supported his brother. He did not have to earn a living.

He was also anti-social and violent, which prevented more people from accepting his work.

Liberty's Edge

Ubermench wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
Krome wrote:


I am curious though, how many magazine articles, adventures, stories, novels and books have you had published?

Van Gogh was an utter failure as an artist by these standards. He sold a few paintings to his brother-in-law who felt sorry for him.

I would also point out that Van Gogh was financially supported his brother. He did not have to earn a living.

He was also anti-social and violent, which prevented more people from accepting his work.

Naaah...they were f~~+ing philistines.

FIGHT!!!


Krome wrote:
I am curious though, how many magazine articles, adventures, stories, novels and books have you had published?

None, but I have produced two music CDs, and I would suppose that the relationship between producer and composer is much the same as that between publisher and author.

In any case, I don't really see why not having published anything should necessarily disqualify anyone from having a valid opinon on the subject.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Tarren Dei wrote:
Krome wrote:

[note: I have no idea who Susie Bright is]

Oh! Oh! I got that one!

** spoiler omitted **

What colour pie does that trivia answer get me?

If that doesn't qualify for a pink triangle, I don't know what does.

Contributor

Godsdog10 wrote:
Wow Krome, that is a pretty jaded look at things. You really have to seperate who you are writing for, and what you are writing. Screenplays, novels, etc are much less restricted (as pointed out by the SNG example)

Hmm, all of what I've heard about Hollywood (and I know a few directors, producers, writers, and other people who handle scripts) is that H is actually pretty conservative/restrictive as well. When you pitch a TV show, you have to pitch it as "it's like LOST, but they're on an alien planet," or "it's like Survivor, but they're all murderers," or "it's like Beverly Hills 90210, but they're all super-rich," or "it's a western, but in space." Movies are "it's like Star Wars, but they're all lesbians," or "it's like The Water Boy, but about golf," or "it's like Night of the Living Dead, but with werewolves." Unless the studio execs can associate the pitched script with an established moneymaker, they're not likely to want to invest in it.

That's why so much that's produced nowadays is pretty formulaic.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 aka Lord Fyre

I.Malachi wrote:
Creativity can't be constrained - if an author or screenwriter is good enough, his work will be good even when he's writing to someone else's rules. In fact, he will stand out more with a good story that's written to someone else's rules. It makes people curious what kind of stories he can write when given free reign.

Actually, most successful authors have to show that they can write within a publisher's guidelines before they get the chance to go beyond them.

Yes, Rowling is an exception.

Liberty's Edge

I googled a phrase from the quote and found the blog it came from.

Dark Archive Dedicated Voter Season 9

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Godsdog10 wrote:
Wow Krome, that is a pretty jaded look at things. You really have to seperate who you are writing for, and what you are writing. Screenplays, novels, etc are much less restricted (as pointed out by the SNG example)
Movies are "it's like Star Wars, but they're all lesbians,"

Not sure I wanna see the Jabba part on that one....

The Exchange Kobold Press

Heathansson wrote:
I googled a phrase from the quote and found the blog it came from.

Apparently Krome leads a more colorful creative life than one might suppose from his gruff dwarvish exterior...


hahhahahaha

Liberty's Edge

Lord Fyre wrote:
I.Malachi wrote:
Creativity can't be constrained - if an author or screenwriter is good enough, his work will be good even when he's writing to someone else's rules. In fact, he will stand out more with a good story that's written to someone else's rules. It makes people curious what kind of stories he can write when given free reign.

Actually, most successful authors have to show that they can write within a publisher's guidelines before they get the chance to go beyond them.

That's my point. If you're good enough, you can be creative within whichever guidelines are given to you.


Now you guys have me thinking of writing some good porn. I mean bad. I mean naughty. Well... like sick, actually. You know, modding vibrators... jumper cables... car batteries...

Later dudes.

Liberty's Edge

Heathansson wrote:
I googled a phrase from the quote and found the blog it came from.

Yikes.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 aka Tarren Dei

Kruelaid wrote:

Now you guys have me thinking of writing some good porn. I mean bad. I mean naughty. Well... like sick, actually. You know, modding vibrators... jumper cables... car batteries...

Later dudes.

You have my email address, right?

Just sayin' ... if you need a proofreader.


Krome wrote:

Writing is NOT about creativity. It's about Money.

Utter b+#*%$@@.

Dark Archive

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Hmm, all of what I've heard about Hollywood (and I know a few directors, producers, writers, and other people who handle scripts) is that H is actually pretty conservative/restrictive as well. When you pitch a TV show, you have to pitch it as "it's like LOST, but they're on an alien planet,"

Gene Roddenberry complained endlessly about how all they wanted were westerns and people would refuse to even listen to his pitch for Star Trek unless he pretended it was 'like Wagon Train, in space!' and played up Kirk as some sort of two-fisted cowboy with a space pistol who got in fist fights with space ruffians.

Rule number one of *any* creative endeavor. Learn to draw within the lines. Learn to make great art drawing within the lines. Only then will you have the discipline and the experience to say 'screw the lines!' and draw whatever you want.

Anyone who hasn't bothered to learn meter and verse shouldn't complain that their freeverse prose stylings aren't getting the job done.

There's nothing in this world you do better by refusing to learn how to do it right the first time.

Especially skydiving.

And yeah, if you think that you're Van Gogh and too much of an artistic prodigy to have to waste the time learning how to walk before you start running, good for you. I'm not that full of myself.

Liberty's Edge

Vic Wertz wrote:
Tarren Dei wrote:
Krome wrote:

[note: I have no idea who Susie Bright is]

Oh! Oh! I got that one!

** spoiler omitted **

What colour pie does that trivia answer get me?

If that doesn't qualify for a pink triangle, I don't know what does.

It took me a minute to catch the pun. Well done.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 aka Tarren Dei

Vic Wertz wrote:
Tarren Dei wrote:
Krome wrote:

[note: I have no idea who Susie Bright is]

Oh! Oh! I got that one!

** spoiler omitted **

What colour pie does that trivia answer get me?

If that doesn't qualify for a pink triangle, I don't know what does.

Yippee.

[threadjack]Hey all, howzabout we get a game of PRPG/Golarion trivial pursuit going?[/threadjack]

Liberty's Edge

Tarren Dei wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Tarren Dei wrote:
Krome wrote:

[note: I have no idea who Susie Bright is]

Oh! Oh! I got that one!

** spoiler omitted **

What colour pie does that trivia answer get me?

If that doesn't qualify for a pink triangle, I don't know what does.

Yippee.

[threadjack]Hey all, howzabout we get a game of PRPG/Golarion trivial pursuit going?[/threadjack]

[response to threadjack]Sounds fun. [/response to threadjack]

Liberty's Edge

My point is....
there's three types of writer according to Morgan Hawke.

Aspiring author,
Mercenary writer,
Recreational writer.

I don't mean to jab her in any way shape or form; she's making a buck and this is America, by Thunder!

However, I don't see her as the be-all and end-all of sages up on the mountain either. She has a point here and there, but....

There are also tortured souls. Aspiring author//mercenary//recreational//
that's.....barely it.
There's people in search of truth. They aren't egotists necessarily though some are. They're in search of truth. They can't do anything else due to this overwhelming compulsion. They may end up at the Hollywood parties, or they might end up living in a doublewide in the Ozarks with 57 cats. They're completely hosed, one way or the other.
They either can or can't do the bidding of a publisher. They can fake it 'til they make it, or they're so out there that they can barely go to Wal Mart to buy cat food without a cop trying to take them in for psychological evaluation.
But they're in search of truth, man. And they're creative whether they're egotistical or not.

Grand Lodge

Heathansson wrote:
Krome wrote:


I am curious though, how many magazine articles, adventures, stories, novels and books have you had published?

Van Gogh was an utter failure as an artist by these standards. He sold a few paintings to his brother-in-law who felt sorry for him.

lol not the point. This quote was from a publishing professional. I was just seeking to compare qualifications.

An artist who knows his work is still an artist.

But someone who criticizes a publisher for publishing standards, should be capable of presenting some credentials. It would be like me telling Einstein he is all wrong. I have no qualifications to make such a statement and such a statement should be discounted out of hand.

Just about the ONLY people who can criticize that quote I found, would be a publisher, or someone who has a real track record of being published. The rest of us, me included, are just blowing wind in the night.

Liberty's Edge

Krome wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
Krome wrote:


I am curious though, how many magazine articles, adventures, stories, novels and books have you had published?

Van Gogh was an utter failure as an artist by these standards. He sold a few paintings to his brother-in-law who felt sorry for him.

lol not the point. This quote was from a publishing professional. I was just seeking to compare qualifications.

An artist who knows his work is still an artist.

But someone who criticizes a publisher for publishing standards, should be capable of presenting some credentials. It would be like me telling Einstein he is all wrong. I have no qualifications to make such a statement and such a statement should be discounted out of hand.

Just about the ONLY people who can criticize that quote I found, would be a publisher, or someone who has a real track record of being published. The rest of us, me included, are just blowing wind in the night.

Yeah, and I'm saying that my father, who never made a dime in his life, knows more about music theory than Britney Spears. Track record is meaningless. Chuck E. Cheese's pizza sucks. I don't own a pizza restaurant, but I have taste buds. It's that simple. I don't care how much dough that rat has, his pizza sucks!!!

Jon Brazer Enterprises

applause to Krome


Heathansson wrote:
...or they might end up living in a doublewide in the Ozarks with 57 cats.

I know some of those people. Rob Liefeld?!?!?! that dude is for sucks at art.

Liberty's Edge

drunken_nomad wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
...or they might end up living in a doublewide in the Ozarks with 57 cats.
I know some of those people. Rob Liefeld?!?!?! that dude is for sucks at art.

Yeah, but he made a buncha money. He had a Jeans commercial.

His opinion counts, right?


Kruelaid wrote:

Now you guys have me thinking of writing some good porn. I mean bad. I mean naughty. Well... like sick, actually. You know, modding vibrators... jumper cables... car batteries...

Later dudes.

This kind of Later Dudes? Or this kind?


Heathansson wrote:
drunken_nomad wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
...or they might end up living in a doublewide in the Ozarks with 57 cats.
I know some of those people. Rob Liefeld?!?!?! that dude is for sucks at art.

Yeah, but he made a buncha money. He had a Jeans commercial.

His opinion counts, right?

He had a buncha money at one time and the commercial was pretty cool at the time, but he parodied himself into oblivion really quick. Those 'guns' and where the hell were the feet? Granted, without him, there would be no "Supreme" (which you must read the first dozen or so that Alan Moore wrote) and I liked the "Kaboom" work Matsuda did under Rob's banner, but I think the guy himself is a goofball. Did you see his Cap America cover?

Liberty's Edge

drunken_nomad wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
drunken_nomad wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
...or they might end up living in a doublewide in the Ozarks with 57 cats.
I know some of those people. Rob Liefeld?!?!?! that dude is for sucks at art.

Yeah, but he made a buncha money. He had a Jeans commercial.

His opinion counts, right?
He had a buncha money at one time and the commercial was pretty cool at the time, but he parodied himself into oblivion really quick. Those 'guns' and where the hell were the feet? Granted, without him, there would be no "Supreme" (which you must read the first dozen or so that Alan Moore wrote) and I liked the "Kaboom" work Matsuda did under Rob's banner, but I think the guy himself is a goofball. Did you see his Cap America cover?

Yeah. I'm glad we derailed this thread into something constructive like Rob Liefeld bashing.

In his defense, though,....he joined a "Artists who think Rob Liefeld is a Total Douche" on facebook, so I think he at least must have a sense of humor, unless that was a sockpuppet...
The nude Cap on the right looks like Kruelpornaid.


Heathansson wrote:


Yeah. I'm glad we derailed this thread into something constructive like Rob Liefeld bashing.
In his defense, though,....he joined a "Artists who think Rob Liefeld is a Total Douche" on facebook, so I think he at least must have a sense of humor, unless that was a sockpuppet...
The nude Cap on the right looks like Kruelpornaid.

He did? I will give this man a second chance. That kind of self depreciation gets my vote. While discussing this, Ive been reading the wiki page about him and he does seem a little calmed down from when I was reading Wizard mag way back when and he was throwing insults every which way (or at least it seemed he was...)

And as for Kruelaid's foray into pr0n writing, I say this...I will read anything titillating written by that manbeast TWICE!

EDIT** You actually ATE the pizza stuff they serve at Chuck E Cheese?

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