The web site "The Consumerist" (which if I recall correctly is owned by the people from consumer reports) has posted a story on how difficult (and in some cases, impossible) it has been for a user of DDi to stop the automatic renewal (which all users must agree to, if my info is right), and cancel the service.
http://consumerist.com/5128068/hasbro-casts-spell-of-greater-invisibility-o ver-dd-cancellation-page
(you will have to delete the space before the word "over" if you are cutting and pasting)
Funny? Not really. There are people taking shots at Hasbro there, which I guess is a natural reaction. But to me the really sad thing is to have to watch the company who owns the rights to this hobby I have had for 32 years stumble.
The incompetence (if that is what it is, and it seems to be so) at Hasbro does nothing but give people another reason to walk away.
Here's hoping that things get sorted out ASAP.
I don't think you do have to agree to it automatically re-subscribing. I better check!
I don't think you do have to agree to it automatically re-subscribing. I better check!
This, from that thread, from a user named "artifact".
"Do your homework ahead of time. Know what you're getting into, before ever putting down money. You must agree to auto-renewal at sign-up; there is NO option to avoid it, and having it canceled can be a hassle (obviously)."
Anyone confirm this?
I recall when the sign ups first started there was at least one thread that talked about the auto-renew selection. The thread should still be somewhere in the D&DI forum and possibly still being talked about.
From what I heard from that discussion was that when you purchase the account there is a check box for auto-renewing. If it is not checked it would not process the order, you had to agree to subscribe to purchase the D&DI items for any length of time.
Also, from what I gathered, dropping the subscription was similar to dropping a Pathfinder subscription. There was no automatic way to do it, instead you just sent them a message saying you wanted to drop that subscription and someone on their end did so.
Looks like they have begun to get a handle on the problem. Their consolidated thread is lots of people saying they want to cancel and some one in customer service responding to each in turn saying "Poster xxx I have emailed you regarding this issue..."
In fact it appears that the whole mess was a combination of their site being technically crappy (they are constantly asking people to empty their cache) and there being nobody around that was watching the fort over the holidays.
I chalk the whole thing up to incompetence as opposed to malice.
Also, from what I gathered, dropping the subscription was similar to dropping a Pathfinder subscription. There was no automatic way to do it, instead you just sent them a message saying you wanted to drop that subscription and someone on their end did so.
That said their customer base is so much larger then Paizo's they probably should go with a method where the customer presses the big red cancel button and the subscription is canceled. Paizo use this kind of a model in part because half the employees at Paizo monitor the message boards all the time so any problems are likely to be noticed by a bunch of people and very quickly resolved. Wizards employees use their message board less and its much larger with way more traffic so they don't see the problems as quickly.
That said their customer base is so much larger then Paizo's they probably should go with a method where the customer presses the big red cancel button and the subscription is canceled. Paizo use this kind of a model in part because half the employees at Paizo monitor the message boards all the time so any problems are likely to be noticed by a bunch of people and very quickly resolved. Wizards employees use their message board less and its much larger with way more traffic so they don't see the problems as quickly.
Also, from what I gathered, dropping the subscription was similar to dropping a Pathfinder subscription. There was no automatic way to do it, instead you just sent them a message saying you wanted to drop that subscription and someone on their end did so.
I would think so to.
I am a DDI subscriber. To process the subscription order, you must check a box that means you realize that it will auto-renew once your current subscription is up.
I am a DDI subscriber. To process the subscription order, you must check a box that means you realize that it will auto-renew once your current subscription is up.
Yes, I think that is what he was saying. From the way I read it, I think the problem he was addressing was that you cannot opt out of auto-renewal and still subscribe. Is that the case?
If so, I can see why people are upset, but it seems like they are on it. Just bad timing (over the holiday) all around.
How is the auto-renewal for a subscription to DDi different from the auto-renewal when you have a subscription for Paizo products (old D&D magazines and pathfinder) or the auto-renewal subscription of a MMO, or Gamefly, or Netflix, or alot of other things probably? The answer is it is no-different and therefore plainly doesn't matter but Wizards should get a handle on the ability to cancel so that you can avoid getting charged when you don't have the money.
Incidentally. I know longer tell people I play D&D.
Now I just say RPGs.
The shame.
How is the auto-renewal for a subscription to DDi different from the auto-renewal when you have a subscription for Paizo products (old D&D magazines and pathfinder) or the auto-renewal subscription of a MMO, or Gamefly, or Netflix, or alot of other things probably? The answer is it is no-different and therefore plainly doesn't matter but Wizards should get a handle on the ability to cancel so that you can avoid getting charged when you don't have the money.
Cancelling at Paizo is easy.
How is the auto-renewal for a subscription to DDi different from the auto-renewal when you have a subscription for Paizo products (old D&D magazines and pathfinder) or the auto-renewal subscription of a MMO, or Gamefly, or Netflix, or alot of other things probably? The answer is it is no-different and therefore plainly doesn't matter but Wizards should get a handle on the ability to cancel so that you can avoid getting charged when you don't have the money.Cancelling at Paizo is easy.
Stop giving people ideas. Paizo forever!
Precisely. Why anyone would want to do such a thing confounds me.
=)
Incidentally. I know longer tell people I play D&D.
Now I just say RPGs.
The shame.
Yea, it's the same for me as well. I've tried to disassociate myself with that particular game though I do still mention it at home or here on paizo.
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Incidentally. I know longer tell people I play D&D.
Now I just say RPGs.
The shame.
I done that since Vampire: The Masquerade came out in the early 90s and realized There were other games other then D&D...
To this day I Either use Storyteller or GM.... It is a rarity that I Use DM unless I am talking about the book.
Incidentally. I know longer tell people I play D&D.
Now I just say RPGs.
The shame.
Yea, it's the same for me as well. I've tried to disassociate myself with that particular game though I do still mention it at home or here on paizo.
Same here, sad but it did take some getting used to
Huh. Strange. I say Dungeons & Dragons and Dungeon Master every time I tell someone what I am into. *shrugs* Oh well.
Yet I still think of myself playing D&D. I just don't say it to the non-gamers.
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If I recall correctly, and I might not since I remember buying my Dungeon and Dragon subscription from Paizo in yearly or multi-yearly chunks, Paizo's subscriptions didn't auto renew did they? I don't really consider Pathfinder in the same category as it is a subscription with an undefined life span. But then again I knew that going in and didn't have a problem with it.
I dislike the idea of a 3 month subscription that I have to agree agree to an auto renewal for. Doesn't really seem like a 3 month subscription to me.
Tam
How is the auto-renewal for a subscription to DDi different from the auto-renewal when you have a subscription for Paizo products (old D&D magazines and pathfinder) or the auto-renewal subscription of a MMO, or Gamefly, or Netflix, or alot of other things probably? The answer is it is no-different and therefore plainly doesn't matter but Wizards should get a handle on the ability to cancel so that you can avoid getting charged when you don't have the money.
Exactly. I thought the user interface was odd, but that fact that it auto-renews is pretty obvious given that it's a "subscription" especially with a monthly payment option.
But the inability to cancel a subscription is pretty lame. I also think it's lame that Paizo doesn't have it either. If you can subscribe online, you really should be able to unsubscribe online as well. But given the greater resources WotC has, I think it's less excusable for them but really what WotC is being accused of is no different than how Paizo operates (other than apparently Paizo is far better set up to be run IT-wise from employee's homes). :)
People can feel all ashamed all they want, but really WotC isn't operating any different than most other companies out there. It'll be nice once they get more comfortable and better skilled at this new-fangled online stuff. Me? I'll just enjoy playing the game. :)
If I recall correctly, and I might not since I remember buying my Dungeon and Dragon subscription from Paizo in yearly or multi-yearly chunks, Paizo's subscriptions didn't auto renew did they? I don't really consider Pathfinder in the same category as it is a subscription with an undefined life span. But then again I knew that going in and didn't have a problem with it.
I dislike the idea of a 3 month subscription that I have to agree agree to an auto renewal for. Doesn't really seem like a 3 month subscription to me.
Tam
It's very much like Paizo's Pathfinder subscription - an ongoing service not "12 issues of Dragon". In fact, the more I think about it, the DDI subscription is A LOT like all the other online services I have signed up for before - web hosting, Netflix, etc. So DDI is an ongoing service, and if you prepay 3 months or 12 months or whatever, you get a hefty discount over paying month to month - pretty similar to other ongoing services I've signed up for, too.
I think perhaps the "subscription" mindset might be throwing people. It is really more of an online service than a magazine subscription. (And once they finally get their act together and finish any of the many, many other projects they promised that would be more obvious). In fact I just signed up last week and I have access to all of the content so far, not just the current month's "issue".
Yeah, but on the other hand Paizo also allows you to purchase issues individually as well without subscribing (but misses some of the other benefits of subscribing).
Overall I am fine with this model for subscribing to D&DI. However I do find it a bit odd that they don't even give the option of not auto-renewing.
I might be most concerned about the auto-renewing the year long subscription, since I might expect some people to forget over a year when they first subscribed and be surprised by a sudden withdrawal of funds.
One other thing that I might be worried about though, if I didn't plan ahead to protect myself from them charging me when I want to cancel, is that they might automatically charge you on the 1st of each month or the day you subscribed. The problem being if that day is on a weekend or something where employees may not be taking care of e-mails. I'm not sure what you would have to do to stop them at that point, block all charges to your card?
Edit:
It's very much like Paizo's Pathfinder subscription - an ongoing service
Actually, I'm not sure I would call Paizo's Pathfinder and ongoing service. Nothing goes away when I cancel my subscription.
*thinks*
Well, one thing. But I wouldn't really consider the subscriber tags posters get to be worthy of really calling them a service.
If I cancel, I keep all my PDFs and still can access them. I just won't get any more.
If I recall correctly, and I might not since I remember buying my Dungeon and Dragon subscription from Paizo in yearly or multi-yearly chunks, Paizo's subscriptions didn't auto renew did they? I don't really consider Pathfinder in the same category as it is a subscription with an undefined life span. But then again I knew that going in and didn't have a problem with it.
I dislike the idea of a 3 month subscription that I have to agree agree to an auto renewal for. Doesn't really seem like a 3 month subscription to me.
Tam
It's very much like Paizo's Pathfinder subscription - an ongoing service not "12 issues of Dragon". In fact, the more I think about it, the DDI subscription is A LOT like all the other online services I have signed up for before - web hosting, Netflix, etc. So DDI is an ongoing service, and if you prepay 3 months or 12 months or whatever, you get a hefty discount over paying month to month - pretty similar to other ongoing services I've signed up for, too.
I think perhaps the "subscription" mindset might be throwing people. It is really more of an online service than a magazine subscription. (And once they finally get their act together and finish any of the many, many other projects they promised that would be more obvious). In fact I just signed up last week and I have access to all of the content so far, not just the current month's "issue".
It sounds to me like you are making excuses for wotc. Despite how similar their subscription process is to other companies there is no excuse at all for not allowing users to cancel their scripts. No excuse for the p**s poor customer service, or for the run around that people have been getting; especially for a company of that size. Hell, from what I can tell wotc's whole transition to online tools has been a disaster.
It sounds to me like you are making excuses for wotc. Despite how similar their subscription process is to other companies there is no excuse at all for not allowing users to cancel their scripts. No excuse for the p**s poor customer service, or for the run around that people have been getting; especially for a company of that size. Hell, from what I can tell wotc's whole transition to online tools has been a disaster.
And yet there are a lot of people, myself included, who have been very satisfied with the D&DI program. Wonder why.
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And yet there are a lot of people, myself included, who have been very satisfied with the D&DI program. Wonder why.
I would say I am feeling better with What is available now, Though I am upset that a lot is still not there that should have been, and I still think the quality of articles needs some work but are getting better.
Also I still feel their proposed pricing needs some fixing...
I think the proposed pricing of 10-15 a month is too high even for the full tools and should be closer to 7-11 a month, and they should have a Mag only subscription for 3-5 a month.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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And yet there are a lot of people, myself included, who have been very satisfied with the D&DI program. Wonder why.
Becasue you're a suckup!
Just kidding Scott.
It's painful to watch (even if I am getting some level of Schaffenude) because it is the model for the future, on some levels. Every failure WotC makes is noted by the next guy, but every success is too.
I just hope it comes out net success vs. net failure.
It sounds to me like you are making excuses for wotc. Despite how similar their subscription process is to other companies there is no excuse at all for not allowing users to cancel their scripts. No excuse for the p**s poor customer service, or for the run around that people have been getting; especially for a company of that size. Hell, from what I can tell wotc's whole transition to online tools has been a disaster.And yet there are a lot of people, myself included, who have been very satisfied with the D&DI program. Wonder why.
Oh here we go with Scott again. You know, I never see you post unless it is a response to my remarks on the wonderful 4E game. I am kidding of course. I am not talking about the quality of the product, I have no idea what the quality is considering I surely would not ever pay for the ddi. I was merely talking about the customer service. So relax pal, I wasn't attacking the wonderful 4E game.
Oh here we go with Scott again. You know, I never see you post unless it is a response to my remarks on the wonderful 4E game. I am kidding of course. I am not talking about the quality of the product, I have no idea what the quality is considering I surely would not ever pay for the ddi. I was merely talking about the customer service. So relax pal, I wasn't attacking the wonderful 4E game.It sounds to me like you are making excuses for wotc. Despite how similar their subscription process is to other companies there is no excuse at all for not allowing users to cancel their scripts. No excuse for the p**s poor customer service, or for the run around that people have been getting; especially for a company of that size. Hell, from what I can tell wotc's whole transition to online tools has been a disaster.And yet there are a lot of people, myself included, who have been very satisfied with the D&DI program. Wonder why.
Your sarcasm about the wonderful 4E game has been noted.
Yet I still think of myself playing D&D. I just don't say it to the non-gamers.
Funny. I've noticed myself starting to say DnD and then changing it to roleplaying or "adventure gaming." I would would even say DnD when we were playing GURPS or something else.
Oh here we go with Scott again. You know, I never see you post unless it is a response to my remarks on the wonderful 4E game.
As is so often the case, I find that I agree with Scott. (Darn doppelgangers and their sneaky telepathic abilities.)
I'm quite enjoying the DDI. The Character Generator Beta is very good, and - more importantly - there's been some very good material in the online Dungeon and Dragon. Ari Marmell's recent dungeon was particularly good.
I haven't looked into quitting the DDI, but as far as I know, the only way to cancel a Paizo subscription is to send an email, or post on the customer service board.
Oh here we go with Scott again.
What?
You know, I never see you post unless it is a response to my remarks on the wonderful 4E game.
That's pretty self-centered of you. I post in plenty of places.
I am kidding of course. I am not talking about the quality of the product, I have no idea what the quality is considering I surely would not ever pay for the ddi. I was merely talking about the customer service. So relax pal, I wasn't attacking the wonderful 4E game.
And I wasn't defending it. I was defending D&DI, because for all the people complaining about the customer service (and the difficulty of canceling), it seems as though half of those people aren't even affected by it in the first place. It makes me wonder at why you'd want to jump on the bandwagon of railing against WotC's customer service when you, by your own admission "would not ever pay for the ddi." If their transition to online services really had been the disaster you seem to want it to be, there wouldn't be so many satisfied subscribers.
So relax, pal.
Same here, sad but it did take some getting used toIncidentally. I know longer tell people I play D&D.
Now I just say RPGs.
The shame.
Yea, it's the same for me as well. I've tried to disassociate myself with that particular game though I do still mention it at home or here on paizo.
Passing of an era. I was just rearrainging my 1st-3rd edition books in my new library and it was kinda bittersweet that me and D&D have come to a parting of the ways. Ah well, que sera sera, at least Pathfinder is picking up the slack in my gaming dollars.
Why oh why oh why oh why does anything posted on the 4e forums just ended up a massive pissing match of "my game of preference is better than your game of preference" ridiculousness. Stop acting like bloody children. These forums used to be a enjoyable place to hang out, but now I actaully reconsider posting things becuase the edition soldiers will come out in force. You have (and you know who you are) have made this not an enjoyable community to be a part of.
Yeah, I think it is unnecessary to continue to affirm that you do not like 4e especially in the 4e forum. I'm fine with your preferences, but it often feel antagonizing when it happens.
I haven't looked into quitting the DDI, but as far as I know, the only way to cancel a Paizo subscription is to send an email, or post on the customer service board.
However, from that one thread I read, there was a situation where cancelling the auto-renew took a lot more work than just asking them to cancel it. But I'm not sure of the specifics in that case though, so there might have been more behind it.
To all,
I realize looking at my statements that they could be construed as attacking 4E, and for that I apologize. I was simply appalled at the customer service aspect of wotc and I let my personal feelings creep in. So Scott and whomever else may have been offended by my comments, I do sincerely apologize, I suffered a momentarily lapse of immaturity.
In all actuality I have played 4e and it really isn't a bad game.