Vitality / Wound points (Unearthed Arcana) & Surge House rule


Combat


Vitality and Wound points

At the beginning of the Pathfinder book, it presents several options for starting HP's. Well here is my thoughts on that:

I tend to prefer my fantasy games more gritty than normal.

I’ve run D&D. I’m here to say that HP’s are inferior to the Vitality/Wound points presented in the Unearthed Arcana.
I feel that HP’s are a piss poor representation of taking wounds. When you have over 50, you’re pretty much immune to ever being taking down in one shot. You can walk through burning building and fall down mountains and survive. HP’s in D&D do nothing to evoke any emotion in the players.
Unearthed Arcana presents Vitality and Wound points. Vitality is essentially equal to your HP’s. Wound points is equal to your Constitution.
Your Vitality represents you escaping with minor cuts and bruises and getting yourself tired. Wound points represents serious hits where you are in a real danger of dying. You chip through your Vitality and then eat into your Wound points.
Now the ‘trick’ here is that Critical hits bypass your Vitality and score damage directly on your wound points.
So far, I LOVE how this plays out, both mechanically and visually. The players have a nice protective ‘shield’ of ‘hit points’ (Vitality) which actually represents them getting out of the way just in the nick of time. But doing that tires them out or that last dodge makes them pull a muscle.
But every character, whether 1st or 20th, has a static wound point value (again, equal to their Constitution). At 20th level, if your Con is 12, your wound points are 12. One critical hit that causes 12 damage…you’re taken out.
The system is simple and yet visually fantastic. I love to describe combat and I can explain when a character manages to dodge or takes a ‘scrape’ of damage (Vitality) or when a character takes a serious, bleeding painful hit (Wound points).
Oh yeah, your Vitality comes back in hours, your wound points come back in days.

I would love if Pathfinder offered these as optional rules in their book. They are open source to my knowledge.

Surges
Now then, this is my own creation and I know that a lot of players will not like to use ‘house rules’. But whatever, they work so well, I barely want to play D&D without them.
As a player, have you ever rolled an 18 to hit when you needed a 19. Or rolled a measly 1-2 damage on a longsword? You feel rather defeated. Your contribution to the fight was negligible to the point of being ignorable. It’s unsatisfying and boring.
Thus, during combat, I allow players (and smart NPC’s) to make Surges. A Surge is: spend your own Vitality and you get either a +5 bonus to hit and/or damage. You can do a Surge before you roll to hit (costing 1d6 Vitality for hit or damage bonus of 2d6 for both) or you can do a Surge AFTER you roll to hit/damage (costing 1d10 for hit or damage bonus or 2d10 for both). It really gives power to the player and I always encourage that.
More than that, it makes Vitality come alive, making it a dynamic element to the game, rather than a static one. (Vitality as written is just as static as HP’s are. It’s a cushion of points that need to be whittled down.)
With Surges, the player essentially chips into their own Vitality. And it makes a ton of sense if you think about it. Dodging attacks isn’t the only thing that’s going to tire a person out. Throwing those powerful attacks or missing and then following up with a last second adjustment (i.e. taking a +5 to hit after you’ve rolled and ‘missed’) is quite taxing to a character.
So far, the Vitality/Wound points and Surges has been working out amazingly. I love it and all other D&D seems a little drier and stale in comparison.
(And in case you care, I plan to have some progression so that at 10th level the hit and damage bonus will increase to +10, then +15 at 15th level and +20 at 20th level. But the cost will increase as well. But I started at +5 to make things simple and smooth. Anything less is such a trivial bonus so as to not be worth it and having it equal to your level creates the weak at 1st through 3rd level and I didn’t want players to have to add things like +7 to hit or +13 to damage. Easier just to keep it in increments of 5).

Surges make combat much more exciting and allow combat to be finished faster. Oh yes, and I do let mages do it too to power their spells. Mages can get tired too, ya know. For them I tend to describe it as them giving their own endurance for their spell, but RP descriptions are neither here nor there.

The point being: I want to put forth that Pathfinder gives Vitality/Wound point as an option in their book and Surges are to be considered. They are simple enough to include in combat and make things flow better.

Thoughts?

The Exchange

How does this work when a 10th level dude crits for over 60 damage with a greataxe? That means insta-death to anyone with this message unless I am missing something.


When Vitality/Wound Points debuted with Star Wars D20 waybackwhen, I didn't like them - for the exact reason you seem to like them. My players knew one lucky hit could wipe them out, and became a bunch of weak sissies in combat. You won't have someone play a meat shield and accept that they'll be taking damage. Everyone takes cover with that system. It's not fantasy, in other words.
So if you really want a game that models after real-life, vitality/wound points gets you that much closer. But I think most people like a little escapist fantasy in their game.


Fake Healer wrote:
How does this work when a 10th level dude crits for over 60 damage with a greataxe? That means insta-death to anyone with this message unless I am missing something.

Sorry, yeah, I forgot. They increased the critical threat range and removed the damage multiplier, since it wasn't needed anymore.

Also you circumvent any D/R for the attack.

So the Great Axe will only do 1d12+bonus, which is enough to kill the vast majority of low-mid Constitution monsters.


Talonne Hauk wrote:

When Vitality/Wound Points debuted with Star Wars D20 waybackwhen, I didn't like them - for the exact reason you seem to like them. My players knew one lucky hit could wipe them out, and became a bunch of weak sissies in combat. You won't have someone play a meat shield and accept that they'll be taking damage. Everyone takes cover with that system. It's not fantasy, in other words.

So if you really want a game that models after real-life, vitality/wound points gets you that much closer. But I think most people like a little escapist fantasy in their game.

That's fair enough. But I was requesting this as an option only. I think it's such an important option that it should be considered or a footnote should be mentioned. Some people like gritty combat and for them: Vitality/Wounds is the way to go. Some like escapist fantasy and for them, straightout HP's is the way to go.

Any thoughts to the Surge concept? I recommend trying it out to see how much it adds. Even if it's just affecting your HP's, it still makes the HP's dynamic rather than a static ablative shield.


Trent, if you are using Unearthed Arcana, did you consider using Action Points instead of surges ?
I know they don't go in the direction you are aiming, in parallel with vitality & wounds, but still, that's a pretty good cinematic option.
And maybe it would be less confusing for players.
Just saying...


Trent Yacuk wrote:
Any thoughts to the Surge concept? I recommend trying it out to see how much it adds. Even if it's just affecting your HP's, it still makes the HP's dynamic rather than a static ablative shield.

I really like the wound/vitality system, but it did slow my game down when I used it. I decided it wasn't worth the effort for the added realism and went back to regular hit points. If/when my players get more comfortable with the 3.5 rules I may take the leap back into using the wound/vitality system.

Comments on Surge: I really like the idea! When you're using vitality is does make sense that you can push yourself beyond your limits and get results for the effort. I think if I implemented something like this I'd try allowing two dice to be rolled and the player picks the best for a Surge used before the roll (and at a higher cost allow a second dice after the roll).

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