RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
aka KissMeDarkly
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Aura strong abjuration; CL 13th
slot hands; weight 2 lbs; Price: 140,000 GP (one gauntlet)
DESCRIPTION
Made of finest mithral, a spell-catch gauntlet is usually a left-handed gauntlet bearing a large, amber gemstone on the back. Electrum runes spiral from the amber down to the fingertips.
This gauntlet gives the wearer a chance to catch any spell that targets him. Succeeding on a Will Save (DC 15 + Caster Level) means you've "caught" the spell. It becomes a ball of magic in your hand and enables you to re-cast it. The spell keeps its original strength and may not be altered.
You may throw this spell at any target within the spell's range. This is considered casting the spell. By closing your hand into a fist (a free action) you get rid of the spell in your hand. You must do this before another spell is "caught." A spell-catch gauntlet has 10 charges per day. Each attempted catch uses 1 charge. Spell-catch gauntlets can be used in pairs. Using a spell-catch gauntlet with a weapon incurs all the penalties associated with Two-Weapon Fighting.
CREATION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, Spell Turning, +1 masterwork mithral gauntlet, amber 500+ GP; COST: 70,000 GP
Kobold Press
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I love this item, even though it is flawed in at least two ways. I love it because it's fun, because every player character would want it, and because the effect is cool to describe.
It's flawed in two ways. For one, there's no description of the effect of a failed Will save when catching a spell, and there should be. I'm not even sure a saving throw mechanic is the right one for this item.
Second, there's the using them in pairs stuff. This just seems clumsy and munchkin-y. And the penalties of Two-Weapon Fighting don't affect a Will save, so I'm not sure what the designer intended there. This should have been dumped, and they should just work once a round as ...
Well, actually there's a third problem. What kind of action is required to catch a spell? That's a big miss.
Still, inclined to keep these. I would make a developer work to fix it, because the premise is pure sword-and-sorcery goodness.
Oh it has many flaws. For instance, 10 charges per day is a bad mechanic. It should use spell levels not just charges.
Plus, it needs some limits. For goodness sake, can it catch 9th level spells as well as 1st level spells? Heck, a ring of spell storing cant even do that (a major one can, but that costs 200,000 while a normal spell storing ring costs 50,000). A spell turning ring (and this is better than that, in my view) costs nearly 100,000. This thing is under-costed too.
I like it too but man oh man it is not detailed well.
I will say that at least the thing has mojo.
Leaning to reject for too many design issues. But cant argue with Wolfie that it is cool.
Kept.
Mechanics are a little clunky but it's a neat idea, worth exploring.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Congratulations on making it into RPG Superstar 2009!
This is a fun idea, and a classic concept from magic and even sci-fi, like Yoda catching Count Dooku or Palpatine's force lightning in his hand.
Mechanically, though? Not so good.
- Do you need a free/empty hand, or is just wearing the gauntlet enough?
- How do two-weapon fighting penalties apply to casting a spell? Would they be a penalty to the Will save to "catch" a spell if you're wearing two gauntlets?
- Should spells of different levels cost the same amount of charges to catch?
- Does throwing a spell at someone count as casting a spell for provoking AoOs?
- Can you multi-targeted spells (like, say, slow or chain lightning? If so, what happens to other people targeted by the spell?
- Can you catch area-effect spells? Does that count as being "targeted"?
Also, the creation of the item calls for a "+1" MW mithral gauntlet. Rather than having one magic item be the prereq for creating another item, you prolly should have just included the Craft Arms & Armor feat as part of the construction requirements.
Summary: It's a neat idea, but fraught with all kinds of mechanical questions. Ideas are big in the contest, but you need to back them up with some mojo on the mechanics side.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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Holy crap! That's wicked-cool!
Now, let's see if I can answer some of your questions, Jason:
- Do you need a free/empty hand, or is just wearing the gauntlet enough?
I think you have to have a hand free - it doesn't make sense, at least to me, to be able to "catch" a spell with a hand that's holding a sword.
- How do two-weapon fighting penalties apply to casting a spell? Would they be a penalty to the Will save to "catch" a spell if you're wearing two gauntlets?
I read that as "two-weapon fighting penalties apply to attacks made with the spell"; for example, whipping a caught scorching ray back at an opponent.
- Should spells of different levels cost the same amount of charges to catch?
Well, they SHOULD. By the wording of the item, they DON'T, but ... yeah, that might fix this a little bit.
- Does throwing a spell at someone count as casting a spell for provoking AoOs?
Yes. You are considered to "cast" the spell, as noted above.
- Can you multi-targeted spells (like, say, slow or chain lightning? If so, what happens to other people targeted by the spell?
Oh, hell, I have NO idea.
- Can you catch area-effect spells? Does that count as being "targeted"?
Uhhh ... sure?
This item is TEH AWESOME-SAUCE with a capital "Awesome" - and I'd grab this for my game in a heartbeat.
Who am I kidding? I already printed it.
But (and this is a big but) it's a logistical nightmare. And when I'M telling you that something is raw cool-beans but needs a re-tooling & a tone-down, well ...
That's like hearing that you need to sharpen up on your camera-work by Kevin Smith.
I deeply, DEEPLY look forward to seeing what this Superstar! competitor comes up with in subsequent rounds!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar
aka Leandra Christine Schneider
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First, some of my opinions on the raised questions:
Do you need a free/empty hand, or is just wearing the gauntlet enough?
A definite YES from me on this, since the spell becomes "a ball of magic in your hand".
How do two-weapon fighting penalties apply to casting a spell? Would they be a penalty to the Will save to "catch" a spell if you're wearing two gauntlets?
Uh oh...I am reading the item totally different from anyone else. I understand it more like this:
So, you'd basically always have TWF penalties while using your (one) gauntlet (to be able to catch spells).
Of course, the spellcasting part of the item would be unaffected by this, but every attack you make with your main weapon gets the penalty as long as you use your gauntlet.
Using the gauntlets in pairs, would just leave you with the doubled up ability to catch spells (could you try twice per spell?) and...well gauntlets (oh, I see...even magical ones...)to bash your foes into submission...with a TWF penalty.
Should spells of different levels cost the same amount of charges to catch?
I think they do as it is written. o.O Should they?
Does throwing a spell at someone count as casting a spell for provoking AoOs?
Definitely. In my view that is clear from the description.
Can you catch multi-targeted spells (like, say, slow or chain lightning? If so, what happens to other people targeted by the spell?
Of course to A....and to B, I'd say that since the spell becomes a spell-ball in your hand, it is neutralized. But that is just an opinion and should have been made clear by the author.
Can you catch area-effect spells? Does that count as being "targeted"?
*shrug* I guess...
Positive
It is a nice effect every player would like, that really important.
IF it was your idea to balance the item's power with a permanent TWF penalty, then this is something new and worthwhile.
Negative
The mechanics are really wonky in my opinion. It is madness...
Another thing I’ve noticed is the save DC to catch the spell in question. This roll is terribly hard and becomes even harder! I mean, I don’t have a Will save that rises one point per level, so by the time I can pay for one of those, I’d better be very lucky.
After reviewing all other items:
It is the age-old battle again. Supreme style versus unclear mechanics. This time, I am leaning hair thin to the style, but this item has some very ugly parts. I wish you good luck for RPG Superstar 09! Keep up the good ideas and back them with a little better researched mechanics. I am sure we all would love you for that.
aka Robert G. McCreary
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I'm in agreement with the other judges here. Really cool, fun item that everyone would want. But seriously flawed. The first thing I thought of was spell levels (as Clark mentioned). A 9th-level spell should use up more "charges" than a 1st-level spell. Not just 10 spells total, of any kind.
Other questions:
How long can you hold a "caught" spell?
Is there a spell failure chance if you're wearing armor when you re-cast a "caught" spell?
And I'm a little uncomfortable with being able to catch any spell that targets me. Can I catch a fireball? It's an area effect, but what if it's cast at me? What about touch spells? How can I "catch" one of those, and once I've caught it, do I get to throw it instead of making my own touch attack? Jason's comment about multi-target spells is important too, as one of the most common attack spells in the game (magic missile) has multiple targets.
It's got mad style in spades, and it's fun. Crazy fun! I'm seeing funky spell duels with two mages lobbing each others' spells back and forth, like magical jai alai, or something. But these are some serious issues that need to be addressed before this could truly be a Superstar item, IMO. So let's see what you got coming up in the following rounds! And congratulations on joining the ranks of RPG Superstar!
I have another question ... while it is not armor, per se, it is made of mithral, so does it, in itself, apply a penalty for wearing armor? I'd think no, but ::shrug::
This is an awfully powerful doohicky with a lot of unanswered questions on usage.
Deeply flawed mechanics as others have noted. Not crazy about the name myself.
But for me the killer is how it would affect the tone of play. It would start to feel reallllllly video-gamey. Now a Wii Spell-Catching Gaunlet...
This is a very dangerous, but interesting item. During my games, I don't think I've hurled much more than 10 spells per day at the PCs, so that means the gauntlet can potentially save them from all offensive magic. But this item oozes coolness and I love the fact that anyone can put it on. I imagine it would fit a character like the latest Prince from the Prince of Persia series - bold adventurer, sword in one hand and the Spell-Catch Gauntlet in the other.
Congrats KMD! I'll be cheering you on through the competition (after all we monkeys have to stick together!)
Spell-Catch Gauntlet is a great idea, if a bit utilitarian.
The execution is a bit scary, even if the writing is above average.
The idea isn't quite cool enough to overlook the odd Will Save (DC 15 + Caster Level) mechanic which is a total deal breaker to me.
I have to say that the idea has a gem of coolness, but it is coolness that belongs in Exalted, not D&D. Like the school of eyes, the mechanics let it down greatly.
This feels like the glove that Artemis Entreri had when he got Charon's Claw. (See R.A. Salvatore's Sellswords trilogy) So I don't find it very original.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
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The mechanics tickle one of my peeves with the rules - when you have an item that works on targeted spells, it's worth wasting a sentence clarify that you mean spells with the "Target(s)" entry, so people don't get the impression it works with "Effect" style spells like scorching ray. I'd also prefer it state clearly that you can't absorb a touch spell, right now the wording would let you, but the flavor argues against it. This also means that in practice, the gauntlets work on very few spells - no AoE (note that multi-targeted isn't technically AoE), no rays, no ranged touch spells.
This is an interesting and flavorful item, and it's nice to have a more useful version of the rod of absorption, but as a mechanics curmudgeon I'd give it a pass.
While it wouldn't fit into all campaigns, most of the Top 32 wouldn't. (Mine certainly wouldn't!) But in a high-magic, high-FX campaign, with a bit of anime and video-game seasoning...this would fit *ahem* like a glove. (Sorry about that.)
I agree with prior posters that the mechanics need some tightening, but to me this kind of item should have been in a long time ago. Way to go for tackling it.
Congrats on Top 32!
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
aka flash_cxxi
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While it wouldn't fit into all campaigns, most of the Top 32 wouldn't. (Mine certainly wouldn't!) But in a high-magic, high-FX campaign, with a bit of anime and video-game seasoning...this would fit *ahem* like a glove. (Sorry about that.)
I agree with prior posters that the mechanics need some tightening, but to me this kind of item should have been in a long time ago. Way to go for tackling it.
Congrats on Top 32!
Basically... ditto.
Idea and description are pure brilliance.
Mechanics need a lot of work (and I know mine aren't exactly stellar but this is way beyond that, sorry).
Congrats. :)
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Though I have some mechanics issues with this item, I do really like it. I don't care for the idea of using two of these at once - too easily abusable - and I am unclear on how the wearer casts a caught spell (does he have to go through the act of spellcasting or is it just a standard action, spell-like ability?). Nonetheless, a very cool item, easily belonging to the top 32. Congrats!
I agree with much of what's already been said about this item. The underlying idea is cool. The execution is weak. It leaves a lot unanswered questions about how it works for different types of spells. But then, my item left lots of unanswered questions about how it works, as well. It's obvious that the initial round is about having a good idea with signs of RPG Superstar potential. The mechanics will be demonstrated more fully in later rounds. So good luck!
My two-cents,
--Neil
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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Nothing to add, really. Kind of a spell in a can. Definitely needs details sorted out and has mechanical flaws. Is kind of a ring of spell battle. I do think the cost isn't that far off if you switch to absorbing spell levels instead of ten uses per day.
So, mechanically flawed, but a fun item for your PCs to have to take away from someone. And as I mentioned in another thread, a suitable rewrite of an item that exists in neither the 3.5 SRD nor the Pathfinder game.
This is a fun, cool item - who wouldn't want one of these? There are a few alterations I'd make that I think would get it up to being really great. First of all, you need to define what action is required to catch a spell. Also, I think that a free action to get rid of the spell you've caught is bordering on overpowered. In addition, I'd drop the "Two-Weapon Fighting" stuff - it adds a layer of needless complexity to the item.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
aka KissMeDarkly
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Now on to the big REPLY. Yes, I'm going to try to reply to everything in one big post
First, like it's creator it is indeed flawed and I'll comment on particular flaws as I go down the list of replies. I'm also thinking of re-writing it to address these problems as a design practice. I'll post the more finished item on this thread when I'm done with the contest whenever that may be.
Wolfgang, glad you liked the name cause... I don't. It just doesn't sound "right" to me. I do understand immediately what you were talking. It needs certain mechanics/answers. I didn't realize by how much I failed to that spell until after seeing this thread.
Personally, I like the idea of using them in pairs. BUT certain mechanics need to be included. Such as something saying that only a single glove can target a spell at one time. OR two gloves may target the same spell BUT only one can succeed in catching it.
Clark, I had at one point thought about doing it up as spell levels. I probably would've increased it to 15 or 20 charges though. As for pricing it on par with a ring of spell storing... sorry, but I was basing my pricing on wondrous items only not magic items in general. my bad. I also considered playablity and I wanted to keep it able to be bought or crafted. When I re-tool the item I'll try to come up with a more viable cost. I'm also betting my re-tooling of this will go over 200 words. Oh, well.
I AM MOJO JOJO!!
Jason, to answer your concerns (although some have been answered for me.)
-The hand with the spell gauntlet needs to be free to capture a spell and that includes not having a spell already gathered in it.
-I'd apply the same penalties to weilding the two long swords. If you got Two-Weapon Fighting you're all set.
-Multi-Targeted & Area-Effect spells... when submitted the answer was yes. Keep reading to find out why. Though now I'm leaning towards. Multi-targeted, yes. Area Effect, yes if you are the only one affected by it.
-I agree with you on the Craft Arms & Armor feat. I'm definately plan on working on my design-fu.
Boomer, hope I don't disappoint.
Christine, that TWF issue was not intentional. I'll have to re-word it so it understood that only when either catching a spell or attack with twice or any combo of the two is the TWF penalty incurred. The Save mechanic is yet another flawed choice of mine. I shouldn't have used Caster Level. Spell Level is a better way to go.
Rob, I'm in agreement with you and Clark about more charges being expended per spell level. I think I considered it breifly, but didn't impliment it. Time limit to hold onto a spell? Originally I was thinking 10 Rounds. This was cut for word count. My best friend actually brought up the issue with touch spells when he saw it on New Year's Eve. (Yes, I brought it to the bar with me.) I think it comes down to me not realizing how many spell mechanics I was working with.
I'd like to thank all the judges for taking the time to do this at all.
THANKS, JUDGES!!
Taig, this is intended for ANY CLASS to use.
Gamer Grrl, you are correct. I'd rule "no" it doesn't. Just because the spell is already outside the
Darkjoy, as I don't read Salvatore except The Crimson Shadow 1+2. I don't know what you're refering to. I mention where I took my idea from later on in this post.
Russ, it would work on very few spells it touch attack & area-effect spells were not included. That was something I noticed as I was making certain choices. I decided to give it the ability to work on touch attack spells. I forget exactly which spell convinced me of this though.
Charles Evans 25, actually this came about from an idea I was had for a villain in a BESM game I was working on. Simon Spell-Thief. The original concept was a more dynamic version the Spell-Catch Gauntlet. It allowed Simon to catch any spell & store six caught spells at a time, to be released/cast and lost whenever he wanted.
Steven T. Helt, what is a ring of spell battle from? How about a link to the thread you suggested my item was worthy of a re-tooling?
Paul, I'll take your suggestion about TWF into consideration when I re-tool this. I concede the I should've made it a Swift Action nor a Free Action.
Finally I'm glad so many people enjoyed my item. For those of you who didn't? I had already begun next year's submission when I found out I made the Top 32. I think next year's submission might be more to your liking. I know I'm already liking it alot. I've never seen anything like it an the limited d20 books I own.
PS: Who else checked their e-mail to see if they made it after finding out the website was swamped with people trying to get on? I did. I also shouted and scared my not-yet 2 yr old neice in the process. Oops.
Doesn't read R.A. Salvatore
Here is a link to the Artemis Entreri's glove see Charon's Claw
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
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While the concept is cool, I'm having a hard time getting past the mechanical flaws, as others are. A few things I haven't seen mentioned are when you're throwing a caught spell to cast it, what kind of action does that take? Since you say it acts as casting the spell, I would assume the same as the casting time. That leads to the question of what about spells that are more than 1 standard action (I don't know if there are any targetable spells like this, but there could be). It seems a bit wonky to "throw" a spell ball for an entire round or more.
Also, do you know the nature of the spell you've caught? Can you catch spells that don't have a visible effect heading at you? I know I'd wan't to know what I caught before I threw it. I'd hate to waste an action throwing a dominate spell at an undead monster, or for that matter, something that did negative energy damage and would actually heal it.
Finally, similar to the +1 masterwork gauntlet requirement, I felt that the 500gp amber requirement was a bit odd. That should be assumed to simply be part of the gp portion of the cost.
All that being said, the concept is cool, and I'm sure you'll have a similarly cool villain concept. By round three with the stat block though, you've got to tighten up all the mechanics.
I retooled and re-worded it a little, trying to clear up some of the issues as I saw it, and as I read were being addressed. Was hoping for one from Gerald sooner, but I'll definately look in when he posts his (official) one. I did not address the cost of these. I doubt its important, but the word count is up to 365.
Thanks Gerald for a really fun item.
Aura strong abjuration; CL 13th
slot hands; weight 2 lbs; Price: 140,000 GP (one gauntlet)
DESCRIPTION
Made of finest mithral, a spell-catch gauntlet is usually a left-handed gauntlet bearing a large, amber gemstone on the back. Electrum runes spiral from the amber down to the fingertips. It functions as a +1 mithral spiked gauntlet for melee purposes.
This gauntlet gives the wearer a chance to catch any spell up to 5th level that is targeted at him, passes through him sequentially (chain lightning), or as a portion of the spell (one of several magic missiles), or reduce the effect of an area effect spell by ½ (fireball for all affected) if the hand wearing the gauntlet is free. Succeeding on a Will Save (DC 15 + Caster Level) means you've "caught" the spell. It becomes a ball of magic in your hand and enables you to re-cast it at the original spells strength, CL and so forth, and may not be altered. You may only catch one spell at a time. Spells that would chain on to another target end at you with a successful catch. You may hold the spell for up to one minute. You cannot catch touch spells. If you catch a magic missile, you have only caught that missile; any other targets are affected normally.
You may throw this spell at any target within the spell's range by closing your hand into a fist (a swift action). This is considered casting the spell. There is no ASF for recasting the spell; this is just the energy of the spell, not the components. A spell-catch gauntlet has 10 spell-level charges per day. Spell-catch gauntlets can be used in pairs. You may only try to catch any unique spell once, not with both gauntlets. Using a spell-catch gauntlet with a weapon incurs all the penalties associated with Two-Weapon Fighting for the melee weapon on any round you catch or cast a spell, and for any attack rolls made with the spell, or if you use the gauntlet (a +1 mithral spiked gauntlet) as a weapon itself.
CREATION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, Spell Turning, Craft Arms and Armor, amber 500+ GP; COST: 70,000 GP
created by Gerald Andrews (RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
aka KissMeDarkly
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I retooled and re-worded it a little, trying to clear up some of the issues as I saw it, and as I read were being addressed. Was hoping for one from Gerald sooner, but I'll definately look in when he posts his (official) one. I did not address the cost of these. I doubt its important, but the word count is up to 365.
Thanks Gerald for a really fun item.
And the message boards eat another post. errgh
Glad you like it, Mittean! I have mostly re-worked it already. It just needs an adjusted COST/PRICE. I stripped it to the bones and added MOST of the suggestions. I still use a Will Save though it is altered slightly and I upped the charges to 20. BUT it is at 200 words, so its still a valid RPG Superstar submission.
Also sorry to have to say this, but the soonest you'll see the full re-worked Gauntlet is Tuesday (Feb. 03). If I make the TOP 16 it'll be an even longer wait.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
aka KissMeDarkly
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So I decided to post the UPDATED Spell-Catch Gauntlet. This is the ITEM as it should've been submitted in the first place. I would love to hear comments on this, especially from the judges. :)
Spell-Catch Gauntlet
Aura strong abjuration; CL 13th
slot hands; weight 2 lbs; Price: 250,000 GP (one gauntlet)
DESCRIPTION
Usually made for a left hand, this gauntlet gives the wearer a chance to catch any ranged spell that targets him. Make a Will Save (DC 18 + Spell Level) to catch a spell (Standard Action) with an empty Gauntlet. Spell Catching is a Swift action. For each Spell Level caught one charge is spent. 0-Level spells waste 1 charge. A Gauntlet has 15 charges per day.
Succeeding means you've "caught" the spell. It becomes a ball of magic in your hand. Catching a spell enables you to re-cast it. You may throw this spell at any target within the spell's range. This is considered casting the spell. The spell keeps its original strength and may not be altered. Closing your hand into a fist (Free action) gets rid of the spell in your hand. After one minute, a "caught" spell is automatically Dismissed.
Failure means you forfeit any Reflex Saves, taking the full effects of the spell. Using a spell-catch gauntlet along with a weapon incurs the penalties of Two-Weapon Fighting.
CREATION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, spell turning, COST: 125,000 GP