4E Manual of the Planes


4th Edition


I think this is the best Manual of the Planes so far, except for one thing... the subtle changes on Sigil.

AD&D and 3E put Sigil on a higher place, it always feels like the center of universe.

Now, for 4E, Sigil is a "microcosm" and "The World" feels like the Center of the Universe...

And City of Brass now is the "oldest city" and the biggest commerce hub which, IMO, makez zero sense. I suppose this reflects some of designer's love for 1E and not liking Planescape too much.

Sigil was always a place of mystery. Being the eldest city make sense... it has some hidden purpose... now why the oldest city of all creation is some Efreet place? Why Efreets have of so special?

As may other 4E fluff choices I am ignoring it at full...

/rant...


avin wrote:

I think this is the best Manual of the Planes so far, except for one thing... the subtle changes on Sigil.

AD&D and 3E put Sigil on a higher place, it always feels like the center of universe.

Now, for 4E, Sigil is a "microcosm" and "The World" feels like the Center of the Universe...

And City of Brass now is the "oldest city" and the biggest commerce hub which, IMO, makez zero sense. I suppose this reflects some of designer's love for 1E and not liking Planescape too much.

Sigil was always a place of mystery. Being the eldest city make sense... it has some hidden purpose... now why the oldest city of all creation is some Efreet place? Why Efreets have of so special?

As may other 4E fluff choices I am ignoring it at full...

/rant...

I apologize if this comes off as harsh, but man, this complaint bugs me. (Specifically, that City of Brass is now the biggest trade hub / oldest city, rather than Sigil.)

For one, it makes a certain amount of sense - Sigil is a great trading hub, sure, but its unique accessibility both helps and hinders some of its trade opportunities, enough to make it less ideal as 'the best'. I see it more as the ultimate bazaar or flea market, filled with unique and interesting goods - some of which are even what they look like. But the City of Brass is the place to put your money down if you know what you are looking for and want a deal you can trust. But let's put that aside - fluff can justify whatever it needs to, in the end.

Here is the important thing: Sigil has about a billion interesting things going for it/ It is unique in countless ways. Its structure, its power dynamic, the portals, the Lady, the Factions, the fact deities are barred from it, etc, etc, etc.

What is added to it by saying it is "the oldest city in existence" or "the biggest commerce hub"? Does that in any way remove the mystery of the city and its past? Remove whatever hidden purpose it might have?

If you make it so that Sigil is the only interesting place out there, and that no other extraplanar locales have any claim to fame - doesn't that defeat the entire original purpose of Planescape? To be about travel, exploration, and seeing new and interesting locales? Honestly, having some counterparts that complement Sigil is the best thing they could do for a Planescape game, in my opinion. As awesome and cool as Sigil is, it doesn't need to be everything. It has its own nature, its own feel, and if that isn't enough to make it stand out on its own, something is wrong already.

Anyway, you are certainly free to ignore the fluff as desired, and it definitely isn't hard to do so. ("Sure, the efreeti claim their city is the oldest. Makes for great word on the street, right? Doesn't make it true, though...") (Insert Sigil slang and jargon as needed...)

But this change isn't a mark against Sigil, and I think only helps a Planescape environment, rather than hinders it. And it might be easy to rail against it simply because it is 'change'... but that doesn't always make it a bad thing.


Who's to say Sigil hasn't been destroyed and rebuilt in the past...

Oldest in existence perhaps...Oldest in unrecorded history perhaps not...

Scarab Sages

So what if Sigil isn't the oldest, NYC isn't the oldest city but it is one of the most important. Damascus is one of the oldest cities that still exist, over 6,000 years, but it really has no real world importance. Sigil is still the hub for inter-dimensional travel. The manual of the planes says even the gods and demons use Sigil when they travel dimensions, that makes Sigil more important than some out of the way city made of soft metal.

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