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I know it's a little early to be considering such things, as the core book hasn't even been released yet, but I'm curious if Paizo plans on publishing a version of (or something similar to) Dungeon Magazine, but for Pathfinder-- a place for fans to submit adventures.
the closest right now is going to be the PFS open calls.
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I know it's a little early to be considering such things, as the core book hasn't even been released yet, but I'm curious if Paizo plans on publishing a version of (or something similar to) Dungeon Magazine, but for Pathfinder-- a place for fans to submit adventures.
The fast and easy answer may well be that the Adventure Paths replace Dungeon magazine (though they are written by the pros) and the new writers are being developed in the Pathfinder Society.
But yea, any additional outlet for new (as well as pro) writers is a good thing in my view.
Perhaps Wolfgang Bauer will come out with a "dungeon"esque companion for the excellent Kobold Quarterly. Being outside the control of various companies he could mix and match adventures from different systems as well and actually make it work.
The other place to look would be Weredragon e-magazine. They had three mods in their first release.
Director of Brand Strategy
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Several Paizo employees have mentioned that the business model for publishing magazines as pretty tough and that they don't plan to return down that road now that they have the successful book subscription business model in place. I think that the PFS and set piece adventures in PF are going to be as close to what Dungeon was as you're going to find. That said, there's no reason another company can't release a magazine like this using PRPG rules in August or later, but they probably won't get the license to use the Pathfinder Chronicles campaign setting.
If they do do either something similiar to either Dragon or Dungeon it will probalby be only availiable in PDF format.
That would be to bad because not everyone is into buying PDF books/magazines.
I think that once the final version of the Pathfinder RPG gets released that there will be more than enough support for a Pathfinder Magazine. I know I'd be interested in such a magazine.
I'd also want it to be generic enough to use without having to know Golarion inside and out. The Pathfinder Chronicles is an interesting campaign setting, but I'm more interested in using the Pathfinder RPG as the basis for a new homebrewed campaign world of my own.
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Creative Director
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An actual magazine is not something we're interested in doing. We're kind of caught in a dead zone between something like Kobold Quarterly (which is a pretty small-press, but nevertheless excellent periodical) and WotC (which is currently doing the online magazines). In order for Paizo to publish a magazine, it needs to be able to support the staff and resources it would use, and that means we'd need high subscription numbers, high ad revenue, and high newsstand presence. BUilding those up takes time; Dragon and Dungeon had the INCREDIBLE advantage of having decades of inertia; buyers and distributors knew the titles and they had spots on the racks reserved and advertisers trusted them as places to put ads. A new magazine would have very VERY little of this, and it wouldn't until it's been out for several months and started to build its presence. Combine this with the way money funnels back to the publisher for a magazine, and basically starting up a new magazine for Paizo would require us to lay down hundreds of thousands (perhaps as much as a million) of dollars before we start seeing cash flow back in... and until we see that cash, we don't know if the magazine is vital and healthy and successful. And on top of that, a magazine's shelf life is one month, after which the new issue replaces the old one and the old magazine is destroyed. I've heard estimates that on average, only a third (or less!) of the magazines you pay to print actually get sold, which means you're basically paying to print 2/3 of the magazines just to pay to have them destroyed. You can't just lower your print runs to match the numbers that are being sold, because the RATIO of bought to sold tends to stay the same, it seems. And also it's important to keep unsold copies of a magazine on the shelf to "hold its spot" so that when the next issue comes in, the people who stock the shelves know where to put it. Even if the PF RPG is popular enough to support a magazine... that magazine STILL has to go through the ordeal above, and that doesn't change how risky the whole thing is.
Books, on the other hand, stay in print and sell as long as they want. And they can be reprinted if they run out (magazines cannot, unless they're reprinted as a book). And when you publish a book, you know more or less at once if it's successful or not and the money from that book comes in more or less immediately (allowing you to pay salaries or printing bills or whatever and go on to make more books immediately).
I miss working on Dungeon still. It was my favorite magazine. I'd LOVE it if there were a 3.5 print adventure magazine out there. Paizo can't make those anymore, though, because of the realities of how our business model has changed. Pathfinder's the official Dungeon replacement as far as Paizo's concerned, and I'm pretty proud of it.
A PDF only magazine is a different beast entirely, of course, but the only resources you skimp on there are the actual printers. To us in the editorial pit and the store and the art department, there's really no difference at all between the work that goes into a PDF product or a print product. And since the majority of Paizo's business comes in from print products, if we do a PDF only product it can't rob resources from the print+PDF projects. And since we barely have enough of those resources to do what we're doing now... even a PDF magazine is highly unlikely anytime soon.
Sorry to be all doom and gloom and a downer on the topic, but it's the way it is.
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An actual magazine is not something we're interested in doing. We're kind of caught in a dead zone between something like Kobold Quarterly (which is a pretty small-press, but nevertheless excellent periodical) and WotC (which is currently doing the online magazines). In order for Paizo to publish a magazine, it needs to be able to support the staff and resources it would use, and that means we'd need high subscription numbers, high ad revenue, and high newsstand presence. BUilding those up takes time; Dragon and Dungeon had the INCREDIBLE advantage of having decades of inertia; buyers and distributors knew the titles and they had spots on the racks reserved and advertisers trusted them as places to put ads. A new magazine would have very VERY little of this, and it wouldn't until it's been out for several months and started to build its presence. Combine this with the way money funnels back to the publisher for a magazine, and basically starting up a new magazine for Paizo would require us to lay down hundreds of thousands (perhaps as much as a million) of dollars before we start seeing cash flow back in... and until we see that cash, we don't know if the magazine is vital and healthy and successful. And on top of that, a magazine's shelf life is one month, after which the new issue replaces the old one and the old magazine is destroyed. I've heard estimates that on average, only a third (or less!) of the magazines you pay to print actually get sold, which means you're basically paying to print 2/3 of the magazines just to pay to have them destroyed. You can't just lower your print runs to match the numbers that are being sold, because the RATIO of bought to sold tends to stay the same, it seems. And also it's important to keep unsold copies of a magazine on the shelf to "hold its spot" so that when the next issue comes in, the people who stock the shelves know where to put it. Even if the PF RPG is popular enough to support a magazine... that magazine STILL has to go through the ordeal above, and that doesn't...
You need to copy and save this :) This same question comes up so very often :)
So, I have a question for you then. What about setting aside a small space on the server (I suppose it can be anyone's server really- not just Paizo) and have a spot open for adventures. A rating system can allow readers to rate the adventures for quality, and even have comments to help improve the quality of writing.
Heck if anyone thinks this would actually work, I'd be willing to find a way to get a website, and some help from these forums, and set this up.
Lilith's DMTools.org has an adventures section.
Lesse , between:
1) Pathfinder Adventure Modules
b) Pathfinder Companion
III) Kobold Quarterly and
q) Pathfinder Chronicles
... I dont think there is any shortage of semi-monthly material containg Dragon or Dungeon type material. At least one or more is popping out each month. =)
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Lesse , between:
1) Pathfinder Adventure Modules
b) Pathfinder Companion
III) Kobold Quarterly and
q) Pathfinder Chronicles... I dont think there is any shortage of semi-monthly material containg Dragon or Dungeon type material. At least one or more is popping out each month. =)
I can't recommend Kobold Quarterly highly enough. Really, if you miss Dragon mag, you should think about subscribing to KQ!
www.koboldquarterly.com
It would be very cool, however, if Kobold Quarterly published a Pathfinder / 3.5 adventure though. Kind of like Dragon used to do before Dungeon existed. I wonder if Paizo and Wolfgang have discussed this?
It would be very cool, however, if Kobold Quarterly published a Pathfinder / 3.5 adventure though. Kind of like Dragon used to do before Dungeon existed. I wonder if Paizo and Wolfgang have discussed this?I bet they have!
I have to ask.
Why?If your just looking for a canned adventure, look no further then the GameMastery/Pathfinder modules. They appear to be on a bi-monthly schedule. So two of these will be out per one issue of KQ (great magazine imo). Why turn off potential readers who would only see it as a waste of space (either not to their tastes or inappropriate level challenge)?
Besides that most of the guys writing the GameMastery modules would be the first people I would ask to do a canned adventure article for a magazine anyway.
There will be an upcoming Open Design/Pathfinder project. As both KQ and OD are Wolfgang's babies, maybe James was referring to this instead of an adventure in KQ?I have to ask.
Why?
Well, the phrase "like Dragon used to do before Dungeon came along" led me to assume otherwise. Personally, I like the articles that used to come in KoDT (2 or 3 pages usually) featuring a map , number key, and non-sytem description. ( Dungeon: Ready to Occupy by Craig Zipse).
Now, KoDT has decided to drop this semi-regular feature. Unwisely, imo. The appeal of the article was that they were readily available and systemless (and KQ is about more then just one particular system). All a GM had to do was plug in their monster stats and *BAM*! insta-venture. If I had Wolfgang's ear I would tell him about Dungeon: Ready to Occupy and not Dungeon: the hope you needed a canned adventure of x level, y sytem, and z theme.
It would be very cool, however, if Kobold Quarterly published a Pathfinder / 3.5 adventure though. Kind of like Dragon used to do before Dungeon existed. I wonder if Paizo and Wolfgang have discussed this?I bet they have!Sweet. I haven't actually picked up an issue of Kobold Quarterly
yet, but if this happens I certainly will.
Why on Earth havn't you already?
I'm guessing you're a fan though, so could I ask you what you like
best about KQ? Maybe top three things?
Sure, I'm delighted you asked.
1) That it is a magazine. So what, you ask? Well, I love looking at advertisements for new things (I discovered Cloud Kingdom Games and Tricky Owlbear pdf that way). Cool cover art. Letter to the editor. That kind of stuff.2) Last issue I really enjoyed the Garnet Codex article. Other good ones were the Plague one and the one on Rogues. Previous issues that stand out in my mind were Ecology of the Barghest, Cloaker, and Homonculus, Blood Magic, Star and Shadow Magic, Bonded Items for Paladins, and a Monte Cook interview.
3) A dwarven Airship fully done-up map. Either a dungeon: ready to occupy or a good seed for an adventure (around Golarion in eight sessions?)
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Creative Director
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I have to ask.
Why?
Because we at Paizo are worried about an author shortage. We've got several authors who are working for us now, but we don't want to rely on them forever. Likewise, we don't want them to write every adventure, as talented as some of them are, because that'll eventually burn them out. And some of our regular authors are burning out. Some of them have live-changing alterations (such as getting a demanding new job or whatever) that make it so they can't write as much (or at all) anymore. And so we need a constant influx of new authors to groom and use for projects. Back in the Dragon/Dungeon days, we HAD that constant influx, but we don't any more.
Getting more avenues for aspiring new adventure writers to show their stuff is good for us, and good for the business. Nick Logue, Greg Vaughan, Rich Pett, Michael Kortes, Tim Hitchcock, and several other of our go-to authors today all got their start writing for adventuers in Dungeon; had we not had Dungeon to find them, we wouldn't have them working for us and the industry today. The same goes for me, in fact; I got my start in Dungeon. If there wasn't a Dungeon to get a start in, I'd probably be working at a newspaper or a customer service center or a movie theater or on a fishing boat today rather than at Paizo.
So new opportunities for adventure writers to get on the scene are important, and with Dungeon (and Dragon) more or less closed to them now (and closed to US as well) the industry's largest way to get in is gone. We need more.
I have to ask.
Why?Because we at Paizo are worried about an author shortage. We've got several authors who are working for us now, but we don't want to rely on them forever. Likewise, we don't want them to write every adventure, as talented as some of them are, because that'll eventually burn them out. And some of our regular authors are burning out. Some of them have live-changing alterations (such as getting a demanding new job or whatever) that make it so they can't write as much (or at all) anymore. And so we need a constant influx of new authors to groom and use for projects. Back in the Dragon/Dungeon days, we HAD that constant influx, but we don't any more.
Getting more avenues for aspiring new adventure writers to show their stuff is good for us, and good for the business. Nick Logue, Greg Vaughan, Rich Pett, Michael Kortes, Tim Hitchcock, and several other of our go-to authors today all got their start writing for adventuers in Dungeon; had we not had Dungeon to find them, we wouldn't have them working for us and the industry today. The same goes for me, in fact; I got my start in Dungeon. If there wasn't a Dungeon to get a start in, I'd probably be working at a newspaper or a customer service center or a movie theater or on a fishing boat today rather than at Paizo.
So new opportunities for adventure writers to get on the scene are important, and with Dungeon (and Dragon) more or less closed to them now (and closed to US as well) the industry's largest way to get in is gone. We need more.
But we do have something available to us as a community that we didnt have (or have as easy access to) now then when Dungeon came out. The internet.
But, Charlie! Didnt the internet kill Dungeon magazine?Maybe, but now that it is out here we have to deal with it and its effects on our hobby. One good thing is anybody can publish an adventure. That also might be a bad thing. Either way, more people can write an adventure for more people. And easier , too. If I knew a paragraph from a parenthesis I'd write one. I'd write several, you literally wouldnt be able to stop me. Remember how I said it was a bad thing? =P
So instead of sending out hand types drafts with hand drawn maps I can zipfile a word document and use some photoshop or dundjinni and bust out with my own adventure that I can sit back and show my friends and get them to buy me a beer for. Instead of sitting back for months on end waiting for a rejection slip and a "Not what we are currently looking for" xeroxed cover letter.
=D
All y'all gotta do is read'em up some .pdfs
Kobold Press
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Yeah, new writers are crucial. And talent has *always* been thin on the ground. I think the RPG Superstar is really great way to spot up-and-coming folks, but more is always better.
Kobold Quarterly does, in fact, have "dungeon: ready to occupy" feature. The first one was "Alchemist's Lair" in issue #6, then that airship in #7, and another one coming up in issue #8. The maps are cool, the hooks are set up and locales described, but it's up to the DM to give it monsters (possibly straight from the MM) and let 'er rip.
We call it "Maps of Fantasy", but it's the same premise. Please check it out!
Yeah, new writers are crucial. And talent has *always* been thin on the ground. I think the RPG Superstar is really great way to spot up-and-coming folks, but more is always better.
Kobold Quarterly does, in fact, have "dungeon: ready to occupy" feature. The first one was "Alchemist's Lair" in issue #6, then that airship in #7, and another one coming up in issue #8. The maps are cool, the hooks are set up and locales described, but it's up to the DM to give it monsters (possibly straight from the MM) and let 'er rip.
We call it "Maps of Fantasy", but it's the same premise. Please check it out!
Gnarly!
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Kobold Press
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Just out of curiousity, and not related to anything currently on the drawing board at Kobold World Headquarters:
Would you be willing to pay, say $2.50 to have a full set of printable battlemats? The Maps of Fantasy could go that route, but I'm not sure how many folks want them enough for me to commission extra work from the mapper...
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Just out of curiousity, and not related to anything currently on the drawing board at Kobold World Headquarters:
Would you be willing to pay, say $2.50 to have a full set of printable battlemats? The Maps of Fantasy could go that route, but I'm not sure how many folks want them enough for me to commission extra work from the mapper...
YES!
Check out the thread in the Dungeon Magazine Forum about the Maps of Mystery. Lots of people are willing to pay for fantastic maps that are battlemap ready.
The problem is that all those fantastic, gorgeous maps in Pathfinder adventures and KQ are absolutely useless.
Why are they useless?
Because I can't use them at the game table. I have to still make a crappy sketchy drawing on a battle map for my players to use. Maps used IN GAME are absolutely no different than they were 20 years ago. They still suck.
So, would people be willing to pay a token $2.50 for an image they can actually use in their games? Would GMs and groups pay $2.50 to actually have attractive, professionally drawn maps that are impressive during play?
Absolutely.
Heck, people pay more than that to get 3D dungeons, and there was a nice general clamor of support when Worldworks said they would likely do something to support Pathfinder APs.
So, yes, it would be freaking awesome to actually have decent products for real games.
Just out of curiousity, and not related to anything currently on the drawing board at Kobold World Headquarters:
Would you be willing to pay, say $2.50 to have a full set of printable battlemats? The Maps of Fantasy could go that route, but I'm not sure how many folks want them enough for me to commission extra work from the mapper...
High quality + battlemap ready = me paying you (Paizo or anyone else reading this... more money. I generally opt out of the Pathfinder Map Folios right now because they're not actually useful as game material. Instead I go through the process of pulling the images out of the PDF, resizing them in PS, and printing them myself.
They lose a bit in the resolution degradation but it's better than hand-drawn. Give me 1" to 5' ready out of the pack (or PDF) and I'm a happy man.
Just out of curiousity, and not related to anything currently on the drawing board at Kobold World Headquarters:
Would you be willing to pay, say $2.50 to have a full set of printable battlemats? The Maps of Fantasy could go that route, but I'm not sure how many folks want them enough for me to commission extra work from the mapper...
Honestly, not likely. I have software to make my own and (more importantly) my printer makes like one color copy of something then it is out of ink. =/
Just out of curiousity, and not related to anything currently on the drawing board at Kobold World Headquarters:
Would you be willing to pay, say $2.50 to have a full set of printable battlemats? The Maps of Fantasy could go that route, but I'm not sure how many folks want them enough for me to commission extra work from the mapper...
Yes! I most certainly would.
Regarding the magazine, I totally agree with both sides of the coin. Publishing one its a full time biz that demnads lots of resources and Paizo may have his hands full with the current line of products and we as customers would love to have one more info in the form of a magazine. I think Paizo's open mind for a "fan license" is perfect for this issue, it opens the doors for lots of non-official Pathfinder material that can keep fans happy and also its a perfect testing ground to discover new talent. As a customer I would like to see more small, magazine-like articles of Golarion in any printed/electronic format available, on a official or non-official way.
I hope a steady official (or semi-official) magazine-like publication developes soon to cover the increasing niche! For now some of the people at PaizoCon are going for a small print of a Fanzine that cover exactly this theme: articles for people hungry for golarion stuff and writers/artist eager to share their talent. I hope it turns out ok.
Lilith's DMTools.org has an adventures section.Uh, 5 adventures, the last one was from 2007... =(
Adventures don't magically make themselves. There are as many there as were given to me to host. DM Tools has been in doldrums as of late, though I'm hoping to change that soon.
Adventures don't magically make themselves.
*goes to comply to the vendor of a Self-created Adventure VIII scroll*
Damn sexy gnome sellwoman... next time gotta check before buying so-called magical stuff
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Adventures don't magically make themselves. There are as many there as were given to me to host. DM Tools has been in doldrums as of late, though I'm hoping to change that soon.Lilith's DMTools.org has an adventures section.Uh, 5 adventures, the last one was from 2007... =(
By the way Lilith, I tried to sign up and it was misdirected.
"Table 'dmtools.npc_authors' doesn't exist" is the message I get after I hit submit.
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Honestly, not likely. I have software to make my own and (more importantly) my printer makes like one color copy of something then it is out of ink. =/Just out of curiousity, and not related to anything currently on the drawing board at Kobold World Headquarters:
Would you be willing to pay, say $2.50 to have a full set of printable battlemats? The Maps of Fantasy could go that route, but I'm not sure how many folks want them enough for me to commission extra work from the mapper...
If you or anyone else is interested in printing battlemaps (KQ or not), here's an idea for you to ponder...
Buy a color laser printer. Yes, the initial cost is fairly expensive (best to save up first), but toner goes a *lot* further than ink and is far more cost efficient -- it will pay for itself in no time if you print regularly.