One thing I always thought was a bit clunky was the fact that nonlethal damage can never kill you, so you can keep an enemy unconscious pretty much indefinitely by beating them with a sap for an hour or two.
My suggestion: if the amount of nonlethal damage you take exceeds your normal hit points, any nonlethal damage over and above that amount becomes lethal damage.
Thoughts?
|
works for me, although most of the time non-lethal was done as one or two hits and then normal damage ensued. I would rather a random % to determine if your hit became lethal damage, because lets face it, in real life non-lethal damage kills people all the time. Obviously magical merciful weapons wouldn't have this %
|
the fact that a wound doesn't bleed doesn't mean its non-lethal
clubs, maces, warhammers as bludgeoning weapons are supposed to just crush not pierce or cut... the fact that the wound doesn't bleeds after the hit makes it no less letal
yes i think you mean that "light" damage that should have not killed a person often kills them... a well applied hit or to much of it will kill anyone
i say if an enemy reaches -10 hps (or -CON or -Lvl or whatever your fancy) in non letal damage he just dies as anyone else
you don't need any more complicated mechanics for that
Director of Game Design
|
I have been using the rule that nonlethal in excess of your hp total becomes lethal for some time now and plan to implement a similar rule here.
I have already done so with starvation and thirst, but I see that this needs to be applied elsewhere as well.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
i say if an enemy reaches -10 hps (or -CON or -Lvl or whatever your fancy) in non letal damage he just dies as anyone else
you don't need any more complicated mechanics for that
Well, I don't mind allowing an opponent to survive one powerful "knockout punch" (e.g. I don't think a monk should kill a 4 hp commoner with a single punch that does 20 hp of nonlethal damage). But once your opponent is unconscious, you should be able to keep beating on him indefinitely without consequences.
|
I have been using the rule that nonlethal in excess of your hp total becomes lethal for some time now and plan to implement a similar rule here.
I have already done so with starvation and thirst, but I see that this needs to be applied elsewhere as well.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
How long will that leave a character unconscious? Perhaps in the interest of some use for nonlethal damage, after you exceed your hit points + 10, it becomes nonlethal damage? That means you can render someone unconscious for 10 hours, and if you continue to beat him, all you are doing is killing him ...
My suggestion: if the amount of nonlethal damage you take exceeds your normal hit points, any nonlethal damage over and above that amount becomes lethal damage.
Thoughts?
Reasonable enough.
While non-lethal damage is suposed to be just that, non-lethal, indeed there will be cases when that's no longer the case (such as being lynched by an agry mob). In those cases it's only common sense to die from so-called non-leathal damage if downed past -10.
I have been using the rule that nonlethal in excess of your hp total becomes lethal for some time now and plan to implement a similar rule here.
How would this rule interact with regeneration?
|
|
Well, I don't mind allowing an opponent to survive one powerful "knockout punch" (e.g. I don't think a monk should kill a 4 hp commoner with a single punch that does 20 hp of nonlethal damage). But once your opponent is unconscious, you should be able to keep beating on him indefinitely without consequences.i say if an enemy reaches -10 hps (or -CON or -Lvl or whatever your fancy) in non letal damage he just dies as anyone else
you don't need any more complicated mechanics for that
martial artist have been know to kill people by accident
that is why black belts have to register their hands as lethal weaponsif the monk hits someone like that he really knows he is going to kill him UNLESSde chooses to makes minimal damage (i will allow the damage counted as if any dice was rolled 1)
if not well the monk shouldlearn that sometimes he should not hit as hard
thanks Jason, that is a good rule!
My suggestion: if the amount of nonlethal damage you take exceeds your normal hit points, any nonlethal damage over and above that amount becomes lethal damage.
Thoughts?
Reasonable enough.
While non-lethal damage is suposed to be just that, non-lethal, indeed there will be cases when that's no longer the case (such as being lynched by an agry mob). In those cases it's only common sense to die from so-called non-leathal damage if downed past -10.
lets remember that when people are scared and running from places if someone falls they canbe 'stepped-to-death'
so yeah... non-lethal damage can be pretty much lethal :s
Agreed on the principle and the proposed fix. We've all had the sociopath at the game table who says "just kick him in the head a few dozen times to make sure he doesn't wake up while we sleep". If you damage someone/something enough to keep it unconscious for ten hours, you've got to have done some real harm.
martial artist have been know to kill people by accident
that is why black belts have to register their hands as lethal weapons
I'm curious, where in the world is this true? I've known several yudansha through my old aikido dojo, and I have never heard of this requirement, outside of a Chuck Norris joke or two.
I find the whole lethal vs. non lethal damage in D&D to be kind of absurd anyways. As it stands now, it is just a mechanic to justify the existence of the improved unarmed strike feat. All damage is lethal, some is just much more so than others.
|
|
I'm curious, where in the world is this true? I've known several yudansha through my old aikido dojo, and I have never heard of this requirement, outside of a Chuck Norris joke or two.
martial artist have been know to kill people by accident
that is why black belts have to register their hands as lethal weapons
my tae kwan do masters and a few friends (practicing either Tae Kwan Do or Karate) i have meet around the years had to do this when they got theirs
ok this IS in Mexico... it may not apply toother countries... much less states that use their laws different than next door state so it might not be universal.
I find the whole lethal vs. non lethal damage in D&D to be kind of absurd anyways. As it stands now, it is just a mechanic to justify the existence of the improved unarmed strike feat. All damage is lethal, some is just much more so than others.
its more complex than that
what if you want to knock the fighter who was charmed or dominated by the enemy wizard? you usually just try to knock him, you use your weapons at -4 (trying to hit him with the flat side of the sword for example) until he is unconsious, or you tire and try to kill him or he does kill you, or the spell wears of.
also you could try to kidnapp an enemy to interrogate him for crucial information, then you need to do non-lethal damage, otherwise you might kill him a lot easier than by accident
it just depends on what you need to do
its more complex than thatwhat if you want to knock the fighter who was charmed or dominated by the enemy wizard? you usually just try to knock him, you use your weapons at -4 (trying to hit him with the flat side of the sword for example) until he is unconsious, or you tire and try to kill him or he does kill you, or the spell wears of.
also you could try to kidnapp an enemy to interrogate him for crucial information, then you need to do non-lethal damage, otherwise you might kill him a lot easier than by accident
it just depends on what you need to do
Or, we could cast charm or sleep on the fighter, or just use lethal attacks against him until he falls below -0 and then either bind while he is unconscious, and then stabalize him, or reason with him, because even a charmed character creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, and being at -9 hp in D&D is as suicidal and obviously harmful.
In a standard D&D game, it us unreasonable to assume that the enemy has access to magic, but the PCs do not. Granted, choices made by the PCs may have limited their options in a given encounter, but the scenario you present is most easily overcome by magic. Non-lethal damage does not solve any problems that other game mechanics, readily available in a standard D&D game, do not solve more elegantly. It is not tactically more interesting than other options, and is not less cumbersome in implementation. It serves no purpose in D&D.
So gently beating into a coma becomes being gently flogged to death with scented shoelaces?
I have been using the rule that nonlethal in excess of your hp total becomes lethal for some time now and plan to implement a similar rule here.How would this rule interact with regeneration?
That's my question as well.
At high levels, this might get wonky. Remember that you virtually never drop into negatives when you get to high level play. You go directly to death much of the time.
At high levels, this might get wonky. Remember that you virtually never drop into negatives when you get to high level play. You go directly to death much of the time.
I've mentioned this elsewhere but... my group has changed death to "negative one half your normal hit points". Each round you're below 0 hp but still alive, you bleed out. Instead of bleeding out 1 hp per round, you roll your highest Hit Die size (for instance in multiclassed characters) and bleed out whatever you roll..
This stays very close to the original rules, makes character death less abrupt at higher level, and is easy to remember.