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I like lower magic campaigns so masterwork weapons and armor are important to my players. The current flat +150gp for armor and +300gp for weapons simply result in weird prices.
* A masterwork dagger costs 302, that's 151x the cost of a regular dagger.
* A masterwork repeating heavy crossbow costs 700, that's less than double.
* A masterwork suit of leather armor costs 160, that's 16x the cost or regular leather armor.
* A masterwork suit of full plate costs 1,650, that's a mere 10% bump.
I would really like to see masterwork item prices as a multiples of regular items. I don't really care what multiple, but all masterwork items should be double or triple or quadruple the price of their regular counterparts.
Now, what I'd REALLY like to see is an expanded masterwork selection, something like:
Masterwork quality - +2 modifier, x5 cost
High quality - +1 mod, x2 cost
Average quality
Low quality - -1 mod, 1/2 price if you can get anyone to buy this crap.
Inferior quality - -2 mod, unsellable without a Bluff
I would really like to see masterwork item prices as a multiples of regular items. I don't really care what multiple, but all masterwork items should be double or triple or quadruple the price of their regular counterparts.
Now, what I'd REALLY like to see is an expanded masterwork selection, something like:
Masterwork quality - +2 modifier, x5 cost
High quality - +1 mod, x2 cost
Average quality
Low quality - -1 mod, 1/2 price if you can get anyone to buy this crap.
Inferior quality - -2 mod, unsellable without a Bluff
Couldn't agree more, on both counts.
Changing the price structures could really screw with pre-existing material. Honestly, it has nothing to do with logic or anything else, I just think that it opens up a whole new can of worms that should be beyond the scope of an upgrade to the 3.5 rules.
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You have an interesting argument there.
Our group early on in 3.0 thought the same as you, and made Masterwork weapons cost x10, and masterwork armor cost x5.
The results? Everyone loaded up on masterwork daggers at 20 gp each, and didn't bother with masterwork longswords at 150 gp. The math for a masterwork composite bow at the far end of the spectrum was ridiculous, so we went back to the +300 gp model.
It's not perfect, I agree, but changing it to a multiplier makes it harder later on in the game.
Director of Game Design
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Although I agree with the sentiment here, I am not sure that this is the sort of change I am looking into right now. It makes sense, but it is not really a broken mechanic and the change would force GMs to have to reevaluate gear on all preexisting NPCs.
(or in other words, I agree with KnightErrantJr on this one)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Although I agree with the sentiment here, I am not sure that this is the sort of change I am looking into right now. It makes sense, but it is not really a broken mechanic and the change would force GMs to have to reevaluate gear on all preexisting NPCs.
(or in other words, I agree with KnightErrantJr on this one)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I agree.
And would very happily purchase an alternate costing supplement at some future point in time. :)
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Okay, how about having 3 tiers instead of a flat +300gp for weapons? Masterwork simple weapons would be +100gp, martial weapons +200gp, and exotics +300gp.
If you wanted to keep the majority of weapons at +300gp for backwards compatibility, go with +100/+300/+500.
Or you could divide it by light/one-handed+ranged/two-handed.
I don't care about the exact scale, but I would like to see some masterwork weapons available at the lower end of the economic scale, especially daggers. Somebody mentioned the danger that everyone would get a masterwork dagger. So what? It's +1 attack on a cruddy little 1d4 weapon. Mostly it represents a way for lower-level characters to slightly up-grade their weapons before they have access to magic, and a way for mid-level characters to improve their back-up weapons.
One could do a similar 3-tiered system with armor based on light/medium+shields/heavy. Use +150gp for light, +300gp for medium, and +450 for heavy. Not unreasonable.
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Although I agree with the sentiment here, I am not sure that this is the sort of change I am looking into right now. It makes sense, but it is not really a broken mechanic and the change would force GMs to have to reevaluate gear on all preexisting NPCs.
(or in other words, I agree with KnightErrantJr on this one)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
check it then
it would be interestingand i suppose it depends on the equipment
i would say a more apropiate would be x10
why? its not only the quality of the products, its also about the material, more expensive, finer crafts, specialiced crafters, someuse jewels...
a longsword cost 15 gps... a cost of 45 gps for a masterwork version sounds ridiculous low, a 150 gps in general sounds more reasonable
but we allbe crying the day we want a MW longbow that costs 750 gps :P
Maybe it's the intention that everyone pays the same cost for enhancements, masterwork or magical, whether the character is limited to simple weapons and armor or has access to the best. A more "reasonable" or realistic approach favors non-melee over melee types (the former get their masterwork weapons and armor first).
A flat cost avoids the problem of cheap masterwork daggers, but I also like Mosaic's idea that the item's original cost should be a factor in the price of masterwork quality (and I'd extend that to magical enhancements as well). For masterworks, why not use Mosaic's 3-tiered idea for the flat cost, then on top of that triple the original cost of weapons and double the original cost of armor? With tiers of 100/200/300 for both weapons and armor, the examples given in this thread get more reasonable price increases:
* leather armor: 120 gp (12x the regular cost)
* full plate: 3,300 gp (2.2x the regular cost)
* dagger: 106 gp (53x the regular cost)
* longsword: 245 gp (16.33x the regular cost)
* composite longbow: 500 gp (5x the regular cost)
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Okay, how about having 3 tiers instead of a flat +300gp for weapons? Masterwork simple weapons would be +100gp, martial weapons +200gp, and exotics +300gp.
If you wanted to keep the majority of weapons at +300gp for backwards compatibility, go with +100/+300/+500.
Or you could divide it by light/one-handed+ranged/two-handed.
I don't care about the exact scale, but I would like to see some masterwork weapons available at the lower end of the economic scale, especially daggers. Somebody mentioned the danger that everyone would get a masterwork dagger. So what? It's +1 attack on a cruddy little 1d4 weapon. Mostly it represents a way for lower-level characters to slightly up-grade their weapons before they have access to magic, and a way for mid-level characters to improve their back-up weapons.
One could do a similar 3-tiered system with armor based on light/medium+shields/heavy. Use +150gp for light, +300gp for medium, and +450 for heavy. Not unreasonable.
Beautiful.