Whatsup y'all.
Describing RPG rules as "elegant" is my new pet peeve. I don't know when it started exactly, but it really irritates me.
RPG rules are never elegant. They can be simple. They can be easy to grasp. But they can't be described as elegant.
Fred Astaire could be described as elegant. A Vera Wang gown could be described as elegant. But not RPG rules.
It just annoys me when I see people say stuff like "The new snaeak attack rules are so elegant". Also, it bugs me when people describe anything that isn't a mechanical rule as "fluff".
Fluff is a porn term. It has nothing to with RPGs.
Granted, in the grand scheme of things, these are very, very, minor concerns. But they still bug me.
In conclusion, please stop using the words elegant and fluff when discussing RPGs. And while you're at it, I'd appreciate a moratorium on the word "Gish".
Thanks in advance,
Your friend in gaming goodness,
Hazel Monday
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I can go along with not using elegant, but I disagree with fluff, I find the term fluff works quite well. So what word would you say we use to describe a rule that works as intended well and is easy to remember, simple doesn't always apply and doesn't convey that the rule does as intended, just that it is easy to learn. We can't use elegant so what would you prefer?
So what word would you say we use to describe a rule that works as intended well and is easy to remember, simple doesn't always apply and doesn't convey that the rule does as intended, just that it is easy to learn. We can't use elegant so what would you prefer?
If a rule is easy to remember and works as intended, I'd just call it "good". But there's a number of descriptive terms that work better for this situation than "elegant".
For example:
This new rule is nice.
This new rule is a beast.
This new rule is the truth.
This new rule goes to work.
This new rule gets the job done.
This new rule is off the chain.
This new rule is bursting with the skills it takes to lead us into a new tomorrow.
This new rule will cure acne.
This new rule will deliver us from bondage.
All of these sound better to me thatn "this new rule is elegant."
Chinese opera is elegant. RPG rules...not so much.
Also, I'd appreciate a moratorium on the term "meat shield". It sounds too much like "beef curtain" to me.
Methinks someone has a very limited idea of what constitutes elegance. It's not limited to art forms.
A rule that's simple and yet powerful, could truly be described as elegant. The Pathfinder's CMB is a fairly powerful rule, simple execution, possible candidate for relatively elegant compared to its predecessor rule. 4e's on-the-fly pick a stat bonus for attack, pick a defense for unusual action adjudication is also reasonably elegant (though application of effect could be prone to abuse).
I will agree that the term tends to be overused.
Methinks someone has a very limited idea of what constitutes elegance. It's not limited to art forms.
I will agree that the term tends to be overused.
Methinks you're probably right on both counts.
Mealsothinks the words "gamist" "munchkin". and "swingy" have got to go.
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So what word would you say we use to describe a rule that works as intended well and is easy to remember, simple doesn't always apply and doesn't convey that the rule does as intended, just that it is easy to learn. We can't use elegant so what would you prefer?If a rule is easy to remember and works as intended, I'd just call it "good". But there's a number of descriptive terms that work better for this situation than "elegant".
For example:
This new rule is nice. not evocative enough
This new rule is a beast. implies something bad to me
This new rule is the truth. doesn't make any sense at all
This new rule goes to work. doesn't imply what I was saying at all
This new rule gets the job done. doesn't imply simplicity, in fact this to me is another way of saying that the rule works to the bare minimum requirement, not as evocative as "elegant" at all
This new rule is off the chain. please no
This new rule is bursting with the skills it takes to lead us into a new tomorrow. can we stick to short simple one word expressions please, the joy of calling something elegant, is that it is quick and provides a certain image without going into detail, that's what I'm looking for a synonym, not a catchphrase, that aplies to all the rest of the phrases too.
This new rule will cure acne.
This new rule will deliver us from bondage.
All of these sound better to me thatn "this new rule is elegant."
Chinese opera is elegant. RPG rules...not so much.Also, I'd appreciate a moratorium on the term "meat shield". It sounds too much like "beef curtain" to me.
I think that I'm starting to agree that you just need to open your mind to the fact that elegant doesn't just apply to art. lots of things can be elegant. If you can provide a synonym that you support instead I'm more than happy to use it, but nothing you've provided so far does it as elegantly as using the word elegant.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Elegant drifted in from programming. Good code certainly can be elegant. But I don't care for it for gaming rules either, barring exceptionally well done mechanics.
And yeah, gish does bite.
And I don't like flluff either :) It's a bit dismissive of what to me is the best part of the book. When the rules changes, the flavor and setting is what still has value.
Good. I hate the term fluff, which can only contrast poorly with crunch. But who would want flavorless crunch? Not I.
And I don't like flluff either :) It's a bit dismissive of what to me is the best part of the book.
Right on!
Nicely put, David.
Good call...gives bunnies a bad name.
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And I don't like flluff either :) It's a bit dismissive of what to me is the best part of the book. When the rules changes, the flavor and setting is what still has value.
I think fluff has a place in the lexicon.
Not for setting and related background material, but for that material that too often masquerades as it. The endless paragraphs that add nothing to the background, only vaguely support the rules, and really only demonstrate that the author is up to date on his Adverb of the Month Club subscription, and his Bulwer-Lytton Society dues.Fluff is the stuff that pads the word count.
It is annoying that in the struggle between rules material and setting material that the setting material got stuck with the term "fluff" to contrast with "crunch".
I think fluff has a place in the lexicon.
Not for setting and related background material, but for that material that too often masquerades as it. The endless paragraphs that add nothing to the background, only vaguely support the rules, and really only demonstrate that the author is up to date on his Adverb of the Month Club subscription, and his Bulwer-Lytton Society dues.
Fluff is the stuff that pads the word count.
Huh, just to look at you, I wouldn't have guessed you were against purple prose...
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How about "intuitive", or "evocative"? I like rules that make sense, and make characters act like the characters they should be.
Waaaaaay back when, we played Harnmaster, and the party wizard had to practice his spells constantly to become competent, and had his own subset of rules to follow (about a 40 page booklet). This caused him to speak with his own lingo ("darn, my principal wasn't focused enough, now I'm tired"), and act distracted with practicing his spells. It was a great lead-in to roleplaying ...
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Huh, just to look at you, I wouldn't have guessed you were against purple prose...
As a writer, I am all in favor of (my own) egregiously purple prose.
As an editor, it must be terminated with extreme prejudice (especially my own).That is how you can tell an incompetent writer - he thinks he does not need an editor. I am well aware that I have never written anything that could not be improved by a competent editor.
Also, the above does not apply to deliberate rhetoric intended for propaganda purposes. The stuff is supposed to be purple, the purpler the better.
Of course, as a customer, I have zero interest in buying any such material for gaming, so we default back to the above statements.
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I know, what happened to "chewy?"I prefer "chocolatey".
Since chocolate is the best ice cream flavor (and Greyhawk is the best campaign setting with my additions), any good flavor and background material should be described "chocolatey".The bad stuff is actually "albatross".
I'm allergic to chocolate so I'll stick with chewy ...or perhaps crispy.
Fluff is a porn term. It has nothing to with RPGs.
Fluffer is a porn term. Fluff is delicious. Try it in a sammich with peanut butter sometime.
The bad stuff is actually "albatross".
Ya know the albatross was good luck until some fool killed it, right?
Your argument against using 'fluff' is similar to someone's argument against using 'mad' to describe insane. Can't a word have two meanings? |:(
It can. Take Kobold for instance. It can mean annoying rat-dog, or handy trail snack. ;>
And Fryer, too. It can mean someone with bad spelling decided to write a word for people who fry, but it can also mean the last name of a guy who was tragically hit in the face with a pointy stick.
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It can. Take Kobold for instance. It can mean annoying rat-dog, or handy trail snack. ;>And Fryer, too. It can mean someone with bad spelling decided to write a word for people who fry, but it can also mean the last name of a guy who was tragically hit in the face with a pointy stick.
Luckly, being a god, your weapons cannot hurt me.
Luckly, being a god, your weapons cannot hurt me.It can. Take Kobold for instance. It can mean annoying rat-dog, or handy trail snack. ;>And Fryer, too. It can mean someone with bad spelling decided to write a word for people who fry, but it can also mean the last name of a guy who was tragically hit in the face with a pointy stick.
Perhaps, but I'm a Lord of the Boards. Even if that weren't a prestige class that required epic levels, a Lord could still come close to beating you. With all the levels I have, I could almost certainly beat you. Not to mention, of course, that as a Lord I have the power to ignore lesser Paizonians and they can't do a thing about it.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Luckly, being a god, your weapons cannot hurt me.It can. Take Kobold for instance. It can mean annoying rat-dog, or handy trail snack. ;>And Fryer, too. It can mean someone with bad spelling decided to write a word for people who fry, but it can also mean the last name of a guy who was tragically hit in the face with a pointy stick.
At a more practical level, unless you have your face in your shins, it's unlikely to be a target said kobold could reach.
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Perhaps, but I'm a Lord of the Boards. Even if that weren't a prestige class that required epic levels, a Lord could still come close to beating you. With all the levels I have, I could almost certainly beat you. Not to mention, of course, that as a Lord I have the power to ignore lesser Paizonians and they can't do a thing about it.Luckly, being a god, your weapons cannot hurt me.It can. Take Kobold for instance. It can mean annoying rat-dog, or handy trail snack. ;>And Fryer, too. It can mean someone with bad spelling decided to write a word for people who fry, but it can also mean the last name of a guy who was tragically hit in the face with a pointy stick.
Then please ignore me, if you can. I think that you are just full of epic fail.
Then please ignore me, if you can. I think that you are just full of epic fail.Perhaps, but I'm a Lord of the Boards. Even if that weren't a prestige class that required epic levels, a Lord could still come close to beating you. With all the levels I have, I could almost certainly beat you. Not to mention, of course, that as a Lord I have the power to ignore lesser Paizonians and they can't do a thing about it.Luckly, being a god, your weapons cannot hurt me.It can. Take Kobold for instance. It can mean annoying rat-dog, or handy trail snack. ;>And Fryer, too. It can mean someone with bad spelling decided to write a word for people who fry, but it can also mean the last name of a guy who was tragically hit in the face with a pointy stick.
Epic fail is still epic!
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I'm allergic to chocolate so I'll stick with chewy ...or perhaps crispy.
Proof of genetic inferiority if ever there was such a thing. It's amazing that the inbred line of hillbillies and used cars that constitute your ancestory were capable of surviving long enough to produce you.
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Epic fail is still epic!Then please ignore me, if you can. I think that you are just full of epic fail.Perhaps, but I'm a Lord of the Boards. Even if that weren't a prestige class that required epic levels, a Lord could still come close to beating you. With all the levels I have, I could almost certainly beat you. Not to mention, of course, that as a Lord I have the power to ignore lesser Paizonians and they can't do a thing about it.Luckly, being a god, your weapons cannot hurt me.It can. Take Kobold for instance. It can mean annoying rat-dog, or handy trail snack. ;>And Fryer, too. It can mean someone with bad spelling decided to write a word for people who fry, but it can also mean the last name of a guy who was tragically hit in the face with a pointy stick.
Still can't ignore, me can you. ;p I guess I'm not a "lesser Paizonian" after all.
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Proof of genetic inferiority if ever there was such a thing. It's amazing that the inbred line of hillbillies and used cars that constitute your ancestory were capable of surviving long enough to produce you.
I'm allergic to chocolate so I'll stick with chewy ...or perhaps crispy.
Come here pony, I wanna braid your hair and put pretty bows in your tail.
