I whole heartily agree. I ran my players through using the 'Director's Cut' and it made things run quite a bit smoother (especially considering the heavy-handed tactics I needed to use to get them through the previous book).
I especially loved how my players were caught in the moral dilemma of which faction to support.
Much thanks to Mr. Nelson for making this available!
I agree as well. The motivations of the various factions are much better explored (and make a lot more sense) in the Director's Cut version than in the published version. Definitely worth checking out.
@Akumamajin: Jason Nelson also has a Director's Cut version of his Kingmaker AP instalment; "War of the River Kings". I'm not sure if there are other "director's cut" versions or other forms of additional material out there for any of the other AP modules.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I agree as well. The motivations of the various factions are much better explored (and make a lot more sense) in the Director's Cut version than in the published version. Definitely worth checking out.
@Akumamajin: Jason Nelson also has a Director's Cut version of his Kingmaker AP instalment; "War of the River Kings". I'm not sure if there are other "director's cut" versions or other forms of additional material out there for any of the other AP modules.
Generally speaking, as freelancers who sell our work to Paizo, we respect the right of Paizo to create the adventures they want to create, which means respecting the published versions of adventures and not going around spamming unpublished manuscripts willy-nilly. They might have things in them Paizo doesn't want associated with their adventure, for any reason at all, and if someone plays an unofficial version and finds something they don't like and goes online complaining about it, that puts Paizo in a difficult position because now they have to take criticism for something that they already "fixed." This is of course apart from the fact that we want people to BUY PAIZO ADVENTURES, not facilitate IP piracy.
So I say all that to say, if you email the writer of a particular product that you own, you can always ask them if they have any supplemental material, notes, etc. that they would be willing to share. Generally speaking, they will say yes, sure, here it is... with the caveat that you not share or repost it anywhere (if someone asks you about it, refer them to that author to make their own request).
TL;DR = if you'd like DC notes for End of Eternity, or War of the River Kings, or even The Hungry Storm, etc., feel free to email at
You could try the same with other authors if they are inclined to share their email. They may say yes, they may say no. Be gracious either way. Most important, whether using the published version, notes from the author, or otherwise... HAVE FUN!
P.S. Glad you guys enjoyed the DC! The idea that there was no clear-cut "bad guy" was 100% my intention - an adventure that you could legitimately play any of a couple of ways, and any of them could succeed.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Some people have asked in this thread about a map of the Pleasure Palace of Kakishon, where Dilix Mahad lives.
Earlier today I went to go see the very enjoyable Adventures of Tintin movie, and I have to say that when I saw the Sultan's palace and gardens in Bagghar, my first thought was, "wow, that's EXACTLY how I pictured Kakishon in my mind."
So, if you're looking for inspiration for what the palace grounds might look like, you'll see something very similar to what was in my head if you go to the movie.
Some people have asked in this thread about a map of the Pleasure Palace of Kakishon, where Dilix Mahad lives.
I pulled the map out of "Palace in the Sky", from Dungeon #16. When Neshari was showing the party in, he mentioned how Nex patterned the palace after one he had encountered early in his career as an adventuring wizard. It even already has a griffin stable! So far, the map hasn't been used, because the party hasn't done anything in the pleasure palace requiring a map; they are currently trying to decide who to ally with. They actually have the idea to try a diplomatic solution; even if they fail, Dillix is the only faction they actually like, so I doubt it will lead to combat at the Pleasure Palace.
Jason, what deity do you envision the cleric version of Obherak serving?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Some people have asked in this thread about a map of the Pleasure Palace of Kakishon, where Dilix Mahad lives.I pulled the map out of "Palace in the Sky", from Dungeon #16. When Neshari was showing the party in, he mentioned how Nex patterned the palace after one he had encountered early in his career as an adventuring wizard. It even already has a griffin stable! So far, the map hasn't been used, because the party hasn't done anything in the pleasure palace requiring a map; they are currently trying to decide who to ally with. They actually have the idea to try a diplomatic solution; even if they fail, Dillix is the only faction they actually like, so I doubt it will lead to combat at the Pleasure Palace.
Jason, what deity do you envision the cleric version of Obherak serving?
Abadar would probably make the most sense, changing his domains from Earth and Strength to Earth and Law or maybe Nobility. Or, he could be a Separatist archetype and keep Earth and Strength as domains.
Hi I am currently running this awesome AP and was wondering if I could get the extra content for End OF Eternity as well? So far I have some ideas for expanding its content a bit but the extra stuff sure would help.
BTW awesome adventure man, definetly one of my favorites I have read in years looking forward to running it (on book 3 now)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Hi I am currently running this awesome AP and was wondering if I could get the extra content for End OF Eternity as well? So far I have some ideas for expanding its content a bit but the extra stuff sure would help.
BTW awesome adventure man, definetly one of my favorites I have read in years looking forward to running it (on book 3 now)
** spoiler omitted **
sent
Thank you so much for all the help! Ill be sure to post and let you know how it went when I get to there, everything looks awesome :)
If its not too late I am running this AP on the board here (currently deep in chapter 2) and would love a copy of the director's cut as well.
dfedwards2001 at yahoo.com.au
I am also really interested in the Director's Cut, could you please send me a copy?
sent
Your a champion Jason, thanks.
Thanks for the fast response, Jason, and great work!
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Jason,
I would love to have a copy of your Director's Cut, if you are still sending it out.
Email:
“As this is a CR 15 encounter, your players would be well advised to retreat.”
Dear quote, my players’ Confusion spell laughs at you.
Chalk up another one interested in the Director's Cut if it's still available.
Email:
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Wow! That Director's Cut is a Mother Lode. Thanks so much, Jason.
We're just finishing the 2nd book so I'll have some time to digest it. : )
Same as above.
Thanks,
I'd love to have the Director's Cut if possible:
Barring the unforeseen, I should start running the Director's Cut (actually a freewheeling mix of the Director's Cut and published versions) this week!
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Could I please get a copy of the Director's Cut sent to me. Thank you.
Hi, I've got a stupid question: what about wizards ?
I'm currently running the Legacy of Fire campaign, and my players just arrived to Kakishon (where they're having a lot of fun exploring all of the isles!) but they gained a level, so now the wizard wants to know where he can buy scrolls to add to his spellbook. And I can't seem to find anyone that might fullfill this role.
It wouldn't be too bad if the next book didn't seem to have the same issue (although to be honest, I haven't read it yet, so I might be wrong on that part), and going 2 books without learning any other spell than the measly 2/levels of a wizard seems very painful. And let's not even mention the fact that some wizards might be multiclassing into a prestige class around these level and not even get those.
I've noticed that Artell Norrin is a wizard too, but he's only level 8, should he offer scroll for sell anyway ? It doesn't seem to be his type, unless you can write on a scroll using a heated hammer ;)
When they went to the Pleasure Palace, I gave each of my PCs a customised room to spend the night in, the wizard had (of course) access to a huge library featuring various rare tomes, would it be fair to let him access any scroll this way too ? Maybe by still making him pay it one way or another (I'm sure Nex would have been able to create some sort of magic scroll dispenser), and giving a limit to the number of scrolls per day to avoid abuse ?
Thoughts ?
I'm running Kakishon as paradisaical but resource-poor, so obtaining new spells is tricky. (A magus PC introduced at the start of the chapter, and native to Kakishon, is presented as having already scavenged every spell he could find from the Pleasure Palace.)
That said, Artel Norrin is a reasonable source; I imagine he'd allow wizards to copy spells from his spellbooks under the same sort of trade terms that he uses when crafting weapons.
Hi, I've got a stupid question: what about wizards...
Personally, I'd recommend making the wizards tough it out for a book. It makes Kakishon feel like a very isolated place away from the world as they know it, with no convenient access to the usual shop of scrolls, healing potions and magical armors (particularly since they've just left Book 3 in Katapesh, a great shopping metropolis).
Book 5 does has the same problem, but it's much more easily alleviated there. Have a merchant standing on the other side of the magical barrier, ready to throw scrolls and other merchandise at any PC prepared to throw gold out.
If you really want a scroll-dispensary in book 4, there's a few options:
- Artel Norrin could allow wizards to copy from his spellbook.
- The Pleasure Palace could have a connection to an outside world merchant (a spectral voice appears in Katapesh, with money, to buy the scrolls).
- Andrathi, the deceased wizard, could have either left his spellbook lying around, or perhaps he has a secret stash of scrolls stored on one of the islands (which his tomb guardian can direct you to).
Yeah I feel like making my wizard/magus ache for their spells for a few levels won't kill them. I won't cry too long over those classes anyway, especially if there's a way to bring back some merchant in the next book.
Thanks !
I'm about to start this and only read through the module briefly. Has anyone let them stabilize Kakishon and keep it as a private resort/sanctum throughout the rest of their adventures?
I'm about to start this and only read through the module briefly. Has anyone let them stabilize Kakishon and keep it as a private resort/sanctum throughout the rest of their adventures?
I am planning on letting my players do this. We are just starting book three though so I don't have any results to share currently. I don't really think anything about letting them keep Kakishon should derail the game.
If anything it should be pretty exciting for the players. How many games do you get to play in where you can say you have your own demi-plane.
Mr. Nelson,
Could you also send me a copy of the director's cut.
I'm about to start this and only read through the module briefly. Has anyone let them stabilize Kakishon and keep it as a private resort/sanctum throughout the rest of their adventures?I am planning on letting my players do this. We are just starting book three though so I don't have any results to share currently. I don't really think anything about letting them keep Kakishon should derail the game.
If anything it should be pretty exciting for the players. How many games do you get to play in where you can say you have your own demi-plane.
That's what I was thinking. My biggest concern was that they return from their journey into Kakishon and then sell the scroll for the 45,000gp that was offered to them by one of the merchants. Although by the time they can get back to the City of Katapesh, splitting up that kind of money five ways won't really give them an advantage for the level they'll be at. So if they don't want the scroll, they'll be trading down. Seems like it would be OK.
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That's what I was thinking. My biggest concern was that they return from their journey into Kakishon and then sell the scroll for the 45,000gp that was offered to them by one of the merchants. Although by the time they can get back to the City of Katapesh, splitting up that kind of money five ways won't really give them an advantage for the level they'll be at. So if they don't want the scroll, they'll be trading down. Seems like it would be OK.
After actually going to Kakishon they would be pretty foolish to sell the scroll for only 45,000gp. Hell, the mineral wealth of the islands is probably worth millions if your PCs are completely pragmatic about the scroll.
But outside of that this is a place that Nex walked and spent much time in. Who knows what secrets he left there, why sell it when there might be a chance there are other artifacts or maybe one of his spell books hidden in remote locations of the demi-plane.
Sent some more!
You, sir, are a true Internet Hero.
My PCs just tackled the Black Spire last week (and spent this week's session licking their wounds). Interesting thing about this encounter in particular is that the conversion from 3.5 to Pathfinder changes it considerably. In 3.5, the ghasts lose their ability to spread ghoul fever, but keep their paralysis. In Pathfinder, they can now spread ghoul fever again, but lose the paralysis! Quite the game changer!
My PCs have faced ghouls and ghasts several times over the course of the campaign, and I looked at the pack of no-paralysis ghasts and foresaw a total rout, even with the antimagic taken into account.
So I decided to make the fight a little more interesting while maintaining the same XP "budget." I took out 6 of the 12 ghasts and replaced them with 2 ghasts with class levels (riffing off the ghouls in the Monster Codex): a 5th-level fighter wielding a greataxe and a 4th-level ranger with favored enemy (humans).
Well, it turned out to be a great little fight, in that for a while there I thought I'd just accidentally inflicted a TPK on my party (four 4th-level PCs and three 8th-level cohorts). The regular ghasts went down pretty quickly, as expected, but the two leaders--whom I imagined as having been Gebbite invaders lurking in the shadow of the Spire ever since the Eater of Magic's death--went through foes like buzzsaws!
No actual deaths, fortunately, and the only PC to actually drop only went down to -1 hp. With the exception of a PC who managed to remain totally untouched, however, everyone else was within a hit or two of dropping, and in the meantime the ghasts had killed or driven off half of the party's griffon mounts. The PCs actually had to use the Heal skill to get their fallen ally back on his feet! And it took the collaboration of literally every party member to succeed at that check! In the end, victory came from the PCs convincing the remaining griffons to stop standing their ground, defending themselves, and instead pounce on the last ghasts standing.
So, uh, yeah... great fight, but not sure I'd try that trick again!
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Nice story. That is definitely a game-changing switch; the "ha ha paralysis and antimagic" dirty trick was intentional in the adventure design. Of course, you could have just said these were "legacy ghasts" lurking around who didn't play by the normal rules. It's MONSTER TIME, the PCs don't get to know their stats!
I'm puzzled, though, by how 4th level PCs have 8th level cohorts! :)
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Am I too late to request a copy of the Directors Cut?
Thanks in advance!
** spoiler omitted **
Never too late; I just sometimes take a while to get to it; I may not notice a post or wait to do a number of folks at once. I'll try to get it sent to you in the next week.
Whoops! Meant to say four 10th-level PCs. This is the same group, BTW, that you watched tackle the Isle of the Dead at Gen Con. Due to my cross-country move, a series of technical hitches, and various other delays, this was our first session since then! Next week, the Fire Forge.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Ha, that's awesome. That was too much fun to run into you guys at GenCon running the adventure. Neat to folks meet in person and watch you having fun. That adventure is actually still one of my favorite Paizo things I've written.
If you are coming to GenCon this year, we'll have a booth! Come by and see us!