The End of Eternity (GM Reference)


Legacy of Fire

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Sovereign Court

Jason Nelson wrote:
I vote for extra word count for the adventure!!! :)

Same here. :)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

I vote for NOT increasing the wordcount, so that when authors turn in adventures OVER the word count, it has a better chance of not giving me a headache! :-)

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

James Jacobs wrote:
I vote for NOT increasing the wordcount, so that when authors turn in adventures OVER the word count, it has a better chance of not giving me a headache! :-)

Hey, hey, HEY... I wasn't the one adding extra content to the adventure AFTER it had been turned in! I even pre-scored it for ease of cutting - mazes, crystal islands, magical mutable terrain infested with constructs, whales and squids, all easy to snikty snikty.

I mean, yeah, it WAS over word count, but come on, at least I have lame excuses on my side! My muse just kept sneaking things in... more, More, MORE she said. How could I refuse? :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Longer adventures and support articles. Please don't expand the fiction !

Scarab Sages

James Jacobs wrote:
Effigy wrote:
No more set pieces? Am I the only one disappointed? I actually find them very helpful for downtime and level boosts. Plus they provide great fodder for spinoff ideas and can be easily deconstructed for one-off adventures. What's going to replace them in the coming months?
You're not; there's been other disappointment expressed elsewhere, but in the end this is the best move for Pathfinder. The space freed up by the removal of the set pieces will be absorbed by the other contents. This means in some cases the adventure will be longer than 40 pages, or perhaps that a support article will be longer, or maybe there'll be more monsters than normal in the Bestiary; it'll change every volume, depending upon which articles and sections need the extra room.

No problem. One of the many, many things I love about Paizo is the responsiveness to customer feedback and the constant striving for betterment seen in each and every Adventure Path. As a long-time fan from back in the Dragon/Dungeon era, this has been my consistent impression throughout the years. While I personally loved the Set Pieces, maybe they would have been better served as bonus material to be downloaded from the website post-AP release. Anyway, looking forward to CoT and August 13th. Thanks for the reply, James.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I am running my characters through The End of Eternity. Despite the claim the party will be 11th level by the end of adventure, I am coming up way short on XPs.

My party has been quite skillful in avoiding random encounters (one way I was trying to give them XP) but the main point issue for me is my group did a herculean diplomacy effort between the shaitans and the proteans and were successful in getting both groups to trust each other just enough for the shaitans to allow the proteans to use the earth seed.

Had the party stomped one or both parties, they would have had the required XP but the payoff for the diplomacy effort is a single CR 12 award, with leaves the party just a little over halfway between 10th and 11th level.

I gave the party enough of a story award so they got a level kick to the correct level for the Impossible Eye but it kinda bugs me that (unless I am missing something), going the diplomatic route will short change the party of XP. Usually, there are ad hoc awards for making so and so NPC friendly or helpful but there is nothing for making the shaitans or the protean helpful or friendly.

As I said, not a big problem because I used DM fiat to get the party where they should be, but I thought I would point that XP issue out.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Black Moria wrote:
My party has been quite skillful in avoiding random encounters (one way I was trying to give them XP) but the main point issue for me is my group did a herculean diplomacy effort between the shaitans and the proteans and were successful in getting both groups to trust each other just enough for the shaitans to allow the proteans to use the earth seed.

In a case like this, where a party manages to complete an adventure through a different set of expectations and skills and stunts, you should ABSOLUTELY do as you did and give them a huge story reward. This isn't cheating. In fact, it's good GMing. If an adventure expects a group to go a certain route, and they go a different route because they're that bad-ass or creative or tough, you shouldn't penalize them by being bad-ass or creative or tough. They should get a comparable amount of XP as if they would have gone through and killed them all and let Desna sort them out.

In fact... I'd almost say it'd be best to even up the XP award in this case for a group that goes above and beyond!

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Agreed entirely. I designed the adventure very intentionally to allow different routes to completion - you legitimately COULD and WOULD ally with the proteans or with the shaitans - neither is clearly the good guy or bad guy. There wasn't one obvious and optimal solution for the adventure

Congrats to your group on working through yet another solution, bringing the two factions to the table and working out a compromise, and to you for recognizing their efforts and rewarding them appropriately! I hope you guys had fun with it.

Sovereign Court

This isn't necessarily related to the rules or story of the campaign, but I couldn't find a better place for it, so I figured here would be best:

My group and I are loving Kakishon so far, giving the PCs several choices to escape is making them feel like they have a lot of control over what happens to this place (which they should, of course). But we were wondering, where exactly did the inspiration for Kakishon come from?

We were struck with a lot of similarities to the Isles of the old adventure game King's Quest VI, and we thought maybe both King's Quest and this adventure's author had the same source of inspiration. They both have an Arabian Nights sort of feel, could that be the source?

Regardless, thanks for making an awesome adventure! And if you do indulge my curiosity, all the better! :)

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Nameless wrote:

This isn't necessarily related to the rules or story of the campaign, but I couldn't find a better place for it, so I figured here would be best:

My group and I are loving Kakishon so far, giving the PCs several choices to escape is making them feel like they have a lot of control over what happens to this place (which they should, of course). But we were wondering, where exactly did the inspiration for Kakishon come from?

We were struck with a lot of similarities to the Isles of the old adventure game King's Quest VI, and we thought maybe both King's Quest and this adventure's author had the same source of inspiration. They both have an Arabian Nights sort of feel, could that be the source?

Regardless, thanks for making an awesome adventure! And if you do indulge my curiosity, all the better! :)

Aside from heavy play of the various Civilization games and the old gold box D&D games, I've never been much of a computer gamer or console gamer, so I don't know the reference above to King's Quest.

The strongest influences I would say would be the style and feel of the Harryhausen Sinbad movies (and Jason and the Argonauts, for that matter). Legacy of Fire is, of course, supposed to evoke that kind of Arabian Nights sensibility, and I hope that it has been delivering.

The map of the islands was something somebody at Paizo came up with, based on some kind of ancient Persian symbol, so the islands are basically laid out in the symbol's shape. I had about a paragraph of "here's the basic summary/concept of the adventure," and with that and the map I brainstormed some ideas for the various islands and what kinds of things might go where. Wes and James and I had a pow-wow about them and bounced around ideas not only for different kind of islands (I suppose you could think of the demiplane like a giant zoo and... dare I say it... a kind of magical theme park for Nex and his guests, with any environment imaginable just a galley-ride away). We focused monster ideas mostly on classical old-school monsters, esp. those with some kind of near-eastern ties or a Harryhausen kind of feeling about them (genies and proteans obviously, but sphinxes, hydras, gargoyles, the wyrmskull template, giant talking statues, oracular fountains of the dead).

BTW, I should say that Todd Stewart made up the protean concept and I statted them up (the two in this adventure and the keketars in The Great Beyond), and they and the shaitans were interesting to play with in terms of their motivations and how they might get the PCs to side with them.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you're having a blast - that's the best thing any writer can hear about something he's written! Please do post any amusing campaign stories you would like to share - seems like the folks playing LoF are mostly around #3, so I'll be interested to hear more as more groups finally get around to End of Eternity.

Now, if you're REALLY curious about Kakishon and having that much fun with it, you could always email me for the "director's cut" version, which has another entire island detailed (Ismaizade, the Crystal Isle) and much-expanded info on exploring the Serpent Isles, Khosravi the Isle of Flint, and for sailing the Sandrivers of Khandelwal.

Spoiler:
tjadenjason at gmail dot com

Sovereign Court

Wow, thanks for the incredibly detailed info!

We just finished up a session about an hour ago, where the PCs climbed the Black Spire, only to be ambushed by ghasts in the antimagic field while climbing it. It was actually a pretty hilarious battle in the sense that both of the PCs were paralyzed, and only their cohort (a rogue) and Rayhan (from Chapter III, who is absolutely useless in antimagic) were functioning for most of the battle. I gave control of Rayhan over to the paralyzed PCs player, and the wizard actually got a couple of crits in (thankfully, we were playing in Pathfinder, so it actually helped!).

If there's one thing I love about this adventure, it's helping the PCs hate Jhavhul. They despise him now, and are really worried about what Katapesh will look like when they get back... And I can't wait to see the look on their faces when they find out they escape Kakishon only to be trapped in the City of Brass!

Anyway, as for the influences, thinking back (it's been a long time since I played it), King's Quest VI could definitely have been influenced by Sinbad. It certainly has a lot of elements (shipwrecked on a lost island filled with Arabian Nights-esque tropes is how the game begins!) that make me think of Sinbad, anyway.

As for the rest of the adventure, I'm pretty sure they're going to side with the Protean against Obherak (though they haven't actually visited the Proteans yet, that's going to be fun to run!). Right now they're exploring the Isle of Death, and they really like the atmosphere.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to answer my question! I'll make sure to tell my group what you said, and thanks again for writing such an awesome adventure!

Scarab Sages

So I've been reading up on this adventure (both the regular one and the 'director's cut') and I had a question about Artel and his crowning achievement. Namely... why is the master blacksmith's 'crowning achievement' not really that great? All in all, it's just a +3 weapon. A +1 fire outsider bane frost weapon. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it would be useful... if not for the PCs already getting basically this same weapon from Zayifid's death in book 2.

So to elaborate, here's my dilemma. I want to make this weapon useful without making it *too* powerful. My group consists of the following:

M Human Barbarian 8 - Uses a falchion, but is the one that got Tempest. So not going to make this his type of weapon.

M Human Paladin 7 / Duelist 1 - Uses a scimitar, and I *would* make this his type of weapon... except he already has Zayifid's weapon which is the exact same thing.

M Halfling Rogue 1 / Bard 6 / Pathfinder Delver 1 - Uses a bow, and not even that much. Mostly a caster/skill guy.

M Halfling Ranger 8 - Used to use a warhammer, but only to supplement his bow, which he now uses 100% of the time.

F Elf Cleric (Irori) 7 / Monk 1 - Uses her fists.

So I only really have three options. Either make it a better weapon (without it being TOO powerful), make it a bow (which doesn't seem to fit), or just.. let them have it and sell it (which seems sad).

Any suggestions? I have to think this dilemma may come up for others, since it seems like a common trend to give the 'main tank' Tempest, leaving the 'secondary fighter' this nifty weapon. And in some cases, he may have already taken Zayifid's nifty sword.

Appreciate the thoughts!


I wasn't sure if I missed it in the adventure or if this reference was left out due to development and editing craziness, but I was wondering what the twisted tuning fork (a gift from the Captain of the Sunset Ship) was intended to be used for in Kakishon?

I am currently rolling with it being one of the tokens used to call a ship.

Karui Kage wrote:
So I only really have three options. Either make it a better weapon (without it being TOO powerful), make it a bow (which doesn't seem to fit), or just.. let them have it and sell it (which seems sad).

I might imagine the possibility of describing it as an iron bow, which a few enemies use in the next adventure.

Depending on how devoted the cleric of Irori is to just using her fists (and how much she has augmented her unarmed attacks), I might also suggest making it a monk weapon that, while might not be used all the time, could prove somewhat useful when she comes against fire outsiders.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Blazej wrote:

I wasn't sure if I missed it in the adventure or if this reference was left out due to development and editing craziness, but I was wondering what the twisted tuning fork (a gift from the Captain of the Sunset Ship) was intended to be used for in Kakishon?

I am currently rolling with it being one of the tokens used to call a ship.

That's a great use for it. It was originally going to be the spell component for plane shift to get to and from Kakishon, but that you had to "attune" it by hitting something in Kakishon like the Earth Seed or something before it would work. Gives PCs a way to get to and from Kakishon eventually.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Karui Kage wrote:
So I've been reading up on this adventure (both the regular one and the 'director's cut') and I had a question about Artel and his crowning achievement. Namely... why is the master blacksmith's 'crowning achievement' not really that great? All in all, it's just a +3 weapon. A +1 fire outsider bane frost weapon. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it would be useful... if not for the PCs already getting basically this same weapon from Zayifid's death in book 2.

That is odd that there would be two iterations of giving out essentially the same weapon in the AP.

A +3-equivalent weapon is still pretty swank for adventurers at your level - over 50% of WBL at level 8 and still around 40% when they hit level 9, which is likely by the time they meet Artel Norrin. So maybe the objection isn't based on its power level being +3 (which seems pretty reasonable for the level of the adventure), but that it specifically duplicates the Zafiyid weapon?

Just thinking out loud (internet-wise)... :)

Karui Kage wrote:

So to elaborate, here's my dilemma. I want to make this weapon useful without making it *too* powerful. My group consists of the following:

M Human Barbarian 8 - Uses a falchion, but is the one that got Tempest. So not going to make this his type of weapon.

M Human Paladin 7 / Duelist 1 - Uses a scimitar, and I *would* make this his type of weapon... except he already has Zayifid's weapon which is the exact same thing.

M Halfling Rogue 1 / Bard 6 / Pathfinder Delver 1 - Uses a bow, and not even that much. Mostly a caster/skill guy.

M Halfling Ranger 8 - Used to use a warhammer, but only to supplement his bow, which he now uses 100% of the time.

F Elf Cleric (Irori) 7 / Monk 1 - Uses her fists.

So I only really have three options. Either make it a better weapon (without it being TOO powerful), make it a bow (which doesn't seem to fit), or just.. let them have it and sell it (which seems sad).

Any suggestions? I have to think this dilemma may come up for others, since it seems like a common trend to give the 'main tank' Tempest, leaving the 'secondary fighter' this nifty weapon. And in some cases, he may have already taken Zayifid's nifty sword.

Appreciate the thoughts!

Welll.... that is a dilly of a pickle, the eternal debate of how to include tailored neato magic items in such a way that they don't get grindered for cash by the PCs.

A few suggestions:

1. Make it not a weapon.

Who says a "crowning achievement" has to be a weapon? Especially in the case where the AP already has more than its fair share of neato weapons (tempest, the Zafiyid weapon, some of the stuff Rob came up with in #6). I'm reminded of an Elminster quote from a long-ago "Shields of the Realms" article by Ed Greenwood around Dragon 86 or so, where he said something like "Who d'you think stopped all these warring bladesmen from rampaging across the Realms?"

Why does every cool thematic item have to be a sword, or a weapon at all? You could add one or more of the following ideas to a protective item.

a. Simple: Choose a type of armor or shield that party members favor using and slap the energy resistance (fire) property.

b. Bend the rules: Apply the fortification or spell resistance properties, but have them apply only to attacks with fire effects or creatures with the fire subtype. This might come in handy against all fiery SLAs and high-crit scimitars and falchions getting thrown around.

c. Active defense: This could be as simple as adding fire shield (chill shield) as an ability the armor/shield can use a coupla times per day. This would be a pretty hardcore benefit vs. any fiery foes.

Another amusing one might be that any weapon that hits you while you're wearing the armor/shield is zapped with chill metal. This would be a little more complicated to run at the table, but could be fun.

Perhaps your armor could be a sort of "reverse icy burst," so when you get hit for a crit, you zap the attacker for a burst of cold damage.

Spoiler:
If you are not averse to pillaging ideas from 4th Edition, I believe there is an armor special property in the 4th Ed PH that you can command to inflict cold damage to somebody who hits you as an encounter power. You could do something like this rather than a full-on fire shield if you didn't want to double-dip on the protective power of FS.

I actually think a combination of (a) and (c) would work really well; a suit of +1 fire resistant full plate (or whatever kind of armor you prefer) with the special ability to use chill shield (say 10th level, so each use lasts 1 minute and inflicts 1d6+10) 3/day.

2. Make a different type of weapon.

The iron bow idea Blazej mentioned is a perfectly solid idea. Again, every neat weapon need not be a sword variant.

3. Make it a weapon accessory.

Make it an amulet of mighty fists that applies those abilities. Or, if you like, make it a variant of the AMF that affects whatever weapon a person happens to be wielding rather than unarmed strike. This would be much more powerful, of course, unless you put in some provision against stacking with a weapon's existing enchantments, but it's an idea.

Hope those help.


Question about the Stonespike Guardians: is the CR 9 correct for two of these things? It seems a bit overpowered at two of them for a CR 9. Just looks like a CR 10 to me, especially given my players (4 member, sub-optimal APL 8 pary).

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Denim N Leather wrote:
Question about the Stonespike Guardians: is the CR 9 correct for two of these things? It seems a bit overpowered at two of them for a CR 9. Just looks like a CR 10 to me, especially given my players (4 member, sub-optimal APL 8 pary).

In the original turnover they were modified, down-sized stone golems with the "aura of spikes" power - basically a portable spike stones spell that travels with them. Their intended primary tactic was to be a charging bull rush, shoving characters along across several squares of spikes on a good roll.

I think the stone guardian version is a little stronger, so feel free to bump the CR up a little, especially if your part is on the low end as far as their killpower is concerned.

Or, just have one of them there instead of two.


Jason Nelson wrote:
Denim N Leather wrote:
Question about the Stonespike Guardians: is the CR 9 correct for two of these things? It seems a bit overpowered at two of them for a CR 9. Just looks like a CR 10 to me, especially given my players (4 member, sub-optimal APL 8 pary).

In the original turnover they were modified, down-sized stone golems with the "aura of spikes" power - basically a portable spike stones spell that travels with them. Their intended primary tactic was to be a charging bull rush, shoving characters along across several squares of spikes on a good roll.

I think the stone guardian version is a little stronger, so feel free to bump the CR up a little, especially if your part is on the low end as far as their killpower is concerned.

Or, just have one of them there instead of two.

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm going to use one and if the party does super well, I'll have the other one jump out from behind a bush or something. :)

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Denim N Leather wrote:
Jason Nelson wrote:
Denim N Leather wrote:
Question about the Stonespike Guardians: is the CR 9 correct for two of these things? It seems a bit overpowered at two of them for a CR 9. Just looks like a CR 10 to me, especially given my players (4 member, sub-optimal APL 8 pary).

In the original turnover they were modified, down-sized stone golems with the "aura of spikes" power - basically a portable spike stones spell that travels with them. Their intended primary tactic was to be a charging bull rush, shoving characters along across several squares of spikes on a good roll.

I think the stone guardian version is a little stronger, so feel free to bump the CR up a little, especially if your part is on the low end as far as their killpower is concerned.

Or, just have one of them there instead of two.

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm going to use one and if the party does super well, I'll have the other one jump out from behind a bush or something. :)

Excellent idea. If it's too hard, you're aces; if it's too easy... PUNISH!!!


Artel Norrin's sword is listed as being forged on ebon flame. It seems to me that this should add some kind of "unburning" quality to the sword. Otherwise, why not forge it normally?

My first thought was to give it the same kind of effect as the Flask of Ebon Flame when striking a creature with the fire subtype. Does that sound reasonable?

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Are wrote:

Artel Norrin's sword is listed as being forged on ebon flame. It seems to me that this should add some kind of "unburning" quality to the sword. Otherwise, why not forge it normally?

My first thought was to give it the same kind of effect as the Flask of Ebon Flame when striking a creature with the fire subtype. Does that sound reasonable?

It does; if memory serves, the weapon is supposed to be a frost weapon. You could instead just have it do extra damage vs. any creature with the fire subtype (which is perhaps redundant, since a frost weapon WOULD do extra damage), or perhaps you could make it give an "ebon flame phial" effect on a crit.

There are also some suggestions upthread about other things you could substitute for it instead of having it Yet Another Kewl Weapon. The AP already has Tempest, and there is another neato weapon or two in LoF #6. Feel free to change this weapon into a shield or a piece of armor or something non-weapony.

An interesting twist might be this: maybe a rod or scepter that might:
1. Grant fire resistance to the wielder.
2. Absorb fire effects (within a certain limit) as a rod of absorption.
3. Can be used as a rod of withering against creatures with the fire subtype.

Be creative - there are plenty of options you could use other than just a big frickin sword...

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

I'm getting geeked to run this AP. My group should be together in a couple weeks and this is the one I am running.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Clark Peterson wrote:
I'm getting geeked to run this AP. My group should be together in a couple weeks and this is the one I am running.

One special delivery coming your way, mon frere! Open it... if you DARE!!!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The golden ram is "spell-enhanced" with haste, freedom of movement etc, which seems to account for +1 CR.

Are there any written rules which specify number and level of spells and what the CR increase is for the spell-enhanced creature?

I ask because this mechanic is incredible flexible to quickly modify monsters, and I would surely use it frequently.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Zen79 wrote:

The golden ram is "spell-enhanced" with haste, freedom of movement etc, which seems to account for +1 CR.

Are there any written rules which specify number and level of spells and what the CR increase is for the spell-enhanced creature?

I ask because this mechanic is incredible flexible to quickly modify monsters, and I would surely use it frequently.

I don't think there's a set CR-equivalency mechanic. You just have to apply the spells you are applying and then eyeball it depending on what kind of a difference they make.

The final version is actually somewhat different from my original, which I think was really like a straight-up gorgon with the spell enchancements (which in my turnover were self-renewing, and in fact the Golden Ram would be revived like 24 hours later after it was killed; it was meant to be a perpetual hunting entertainment for Nex's guests). The metal-clad template is from the Advanced Bestiary and it was a nice thematic fit for a literally GOLDEN ram, but I don't think the spell-enhanced bit was following any particular rule for adjusting CR.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

*crud*, *crud*, *crud*

I wish I had read this thread yesterday. Just completed Chapter 3 last night and gave out the tuning fork, which I wouldn't have. My guys will go nutso trying to figure this out. Since Plane Shift does not work in Kakishon, no problem. What do I do when they reach the City of Brass beginning Chapter 5. If it works there, I know these guys, they will go home to save Kelmarane...

Ideas? Other than just saying that it is not attuned to Golorian?

-- david
Papa.DRB

James Jacobs wrote:
Blazej wrote:

I wasn't sure if I missed it in the adventure or if this reference was left out due to development and editing craziness, but I was wondering what the twisted tuning fork (a gift from the Captain of the Sunset Ship) was intended to be used for in Kakishon?

I am currently rolling with it being one of the tokens used to call a ship.

That's a great use for it. It was originally going to be the spell component for plane shift to get to and from Kakishon, but that you had to "attune" it by hitting something in Kakishon like the Earth Seed or something before it would work. Gives PCs a way to get to and from Kakishon eventually.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Papa-DRB wrote:

*crud*, *crud*, *crud*

I wish I had read this thread yesterday. Just completed Chapter 3 last night and gave out the tuning fork, which I wouldn't have. My guys will go nutso trying to figure this out. Since Plane Shift does not work in Kakishon, no problem. What do I do when they reach the City of Brass beginning Chapter 5. If it works there, I know these guys, they will go home to save Kelmarane...

Ideas? Other than just saying that it is not attuned to Golorian?

The Vizier's binding on the Bayt al'Bazan won't allow the PCs to return to Kakishon even with the tuning fork. The binding is essentially a GM fiat that the PCs cannot escape the Bayt by any means, so don't worry that you'll accidentally slip a Get Out Of Jail card in somewhere.

Just don't give them the Codex of Infinite Planes.


Jason Nelson wrote:


The final version is actually somewhat different from my original,

Speaking of things that are different from the original; Your original (director's cut) setup for the different groups in Kakishon is far better than the published version. Even before I read the director's cut version it didn't make any sense to me that Jhavhul would employ Shaitan's in his otherwise Efreet army, and then for some reason leave them behind when he left. The Shaitans being the original caretakers of the demiplane made a lot more sense (and will definitely be used in my game once I get that far!).

I wonder why that was changed for the published version, actually.. It doesn't seem like it would take any more space to explain how things work in one version compared to the other.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Ah, I read the complete AP a while ago, but have just been keeping a 1/2 chapter ahead recently. Just browsed chapter 5. Yup, the curse will keep them there, and I'll just rule the same kinds of "auto spell fails" happen in the noble house.

Thanks!

-- david
Papa.DRB

delabarre wrote:

The Vizier's binding on the Bayt al'Bazan won't allow the PCs to return to Kakishon even with the tuning fork. The binding is essentially a GM fiat that the PCs cannot escape the Bayt by any means, so don't worry that you'll accidentally slip a Get Out Of Jail card in somewhere.

Just don't give them the Codex of Infinite Planes.


Artel Norrin, the legendary azer smith discovered ebon flame and used it to forge Zenzirad.

A substance known as ebon flame is also mentioned in the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting on p198. It occurs when "foul magic rends the veils between planes" and an organization called the Blackfire Adepts "tracks the ebon flame wherever it is found, venturing through these wounds in the multiverse to explore Outer Rift landscapes as they brush against the reality of the Material Plane."

Is this ebon flame the same stuff in both instances? Or rather, how can I use this (intentional or unintentional) coincidence to make the story even cooler?

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

catmandrake wrote:

Artel Norrin, the legendary azer smith discovered ebon flame and used it to forge Zenzirad.

A substance known as ebon flame is also mentioned in the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting on p198. It occurs when "foul magic rends the veils between planes" and an organization called the Blackfire Adepts "tracks the ebon flame wherever it is found, venturing through these wounds in the multiverse to explore Outer Rift landscapes as they brush against the reality of the Material Plane."

Is this ebon flame the same stuff in both instances? Or rather, how can I use this (intentional or unintentional) coincidence to make the story even cooler?

Unintentional coincidence as far as I know. The phial was the item I submitted in the wondrous item round of RPG Superstar 2008. The campaign setting book was written after that, so it is possible someone riffed on that idea in the flavor text for the Blackfire Adepts. Don't know about that.

Dark Archive Contributor

Late to the game I suppose, but I seem to have missed out on directors notes... (the best part).

How can I get these?

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Boxhead wrote:

Late to the game I suppose, but I seem to have missed out on directors notes... (the best part).

How can I get these?

You would email me at tjadenjason (at) gmail (dot) com!


Anybody have a map of Dellix's palace?

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Interestingly, there never was a map - at least. Working on the assumption that PCs would have little motivation to attack Dilix, I didn't figure there would be much need for a map per se; it would be wasted space in an adventure that already had a lot of locations. HOWEVER, I did include a roster of creatures likely to come to Dilix's aid if the PCs did try to attack, with some DM guidelines for what kind of tactics to use if the PCs did go that route. I had kind of an idea in my head of what the relevant parts of the palace might be but never went further than that.

If there's a fan-created map out there, tho, hey bring it on! :)


Just curious for those who have played through this adventure: It seems to me that the adventure assumes that the party will take their time and explore this realm. However, my players (and i'd assume most groups) know that they just released Jhavul into the world, and so as I prepare for this it seems to me that my players are going to take the first offer to get escape and go with it.

Did other groups take their time exploring or did they try right away to escape?

Thanks

Dark Archive Contributor

TerraZephyr wrote:

Just curious for those who have played through this adventure: It seems to me that the adventure assumes that the party will take their time and explore this realm. However, my players (and i'd assume most groups) know that they just released Jhavul into the world, and so as I prepare for this it seems to me that my players are going to take the first offer to get escape and go with it.

Did other groups take their time exploring or did they try right away to escape?

Thanks

We're a good chunk of the way through this adventure now. Part of the key is that most of the escape routes require some time to do anyways- i.e., most groups will need to explore somewhat if they want to help the Proteans or the Shaitan. My group also bit heavily into the Secret Weapon angle, and so have been searching franticly for that.


TerraZephyr wrote:

Just curious for those who have played through this adventure: It seems to me that the adventure assumes that the party will take their time and explore this realm. However, my players (and i'd assume most groups) know that they just released Jhavul into the world, and so as I prepare for this it seems to me that my players are going to take the first offer to get escape and go with it.

Did other groups take their time exploring or did they try right away to escape?

Thanks

My group is halfway through Jackal's Price and I'm thinking ahead a bit and this also occured to me. One way of handling it is simply cut out the part when they meet the escaping Efreet army, but I am reluctant to do that since it's a really cool scene (especially the Director's Cut version). Or you can simply inform the PCs via Proteans/Sheitans that time stands still in Kakishon and they can explore at their leisure. Of course, when they come out, it would be obvious that some time HAS passed, but you can atribute that to the unstability of Kakishon.

I would really like to see Jason's thoughts on this.


My party sailed away from Dillix's envoy and went straight to the proteans. They agreed to their offer without much debate and set off to do their bidding.

They did detour to Artel and the Isle of the Dead once they heard about them, but never varied from the protean deal.


My PCs attacked the turtle...

So I had to leave them to their own devices, the eventually found the dock, got a temp charm, blundered into the water with it and ,when the ship arrived, offhandedly mentioned kakishon. Luckily they did so I just modified the Dillix encounter. Now they are steering clear of the proteans entirely at the moment and are on the way to artel.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Guru_of_the_Sands wrote:

My PCs attacked the turtle...

Interesting, my group also attacked the turtle. That's what happens when the front line fighter wins initiative over everyone when you 'see a turtle approaching down the beach.'

So they have also missed the Protean angle for help. Instead they worked with Dillix and are currently preparing for the final assault on Obherak. This looks like a very difficult encounter! Stone spike guardians, waves of shaitans and then Obherak rising from the floor. I'm expecting some deaths.


For anyone interested, I rendered an interpretation of the Well of Tears from the Isle of the Dead. Feel free to use in your campaign.

Well of Tears

LH

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

LordH wrote:

For anyone interested, I rendered an interpretation of the Well of Tears from the Isle of the Dead. Feel free to use in your campaign.

Well of Tears

LH

Pretty!


A DM's Familiar dataset is now available for End of Eternity. It can be downloaded here.

DM's Familiar is a program you use at the gaming table to run your combat's faster and smoother, easily look up rules, and keep your game organized. The dataset contains the OGC creatures from the adventure so that you don't have to do any data entry!


DMFTodd wrote:
Anybody have a map of Dellix's palace?

It happened that our group took a deep interest in Dilix palaces downstairs and, to keep myself on solid ground as DM, I just grabbed some random, yet unplayed, book with an adventure including a big dungeon map from my bookshelf. That book turned out to be 3.5's Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, and as it features an enormous multi-part dungeon we have spend last two months in that dwelling. Today I told one of the players that this is getting a bit too much off the tracks.

That aside, I really like Kakishons sandbox feeling. I had it in my mind that I would really keep it all open for the players to hang around in Kakishon as long as they enjoy it, but now with this too long all-dungeon interlude I'm a bit reluctant to stretch the campaign schedule much more longer.


Most groups like that sandbox feeling. I think that's why Kingmaker's been such a success.

Shadow Lodge

So I was just wondering what others have done about PC deaths in Kakishon? I gave the one that died last week a choice of a Suli, Ifrit, Oread, or gnoll.

Dark Archive Contributor

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
So I was just wondering what others have done about PC deaths in Kakishon? I gave the one that died last week a choice of a Suli, Ifrit, Oread, or gnoll.

I introduced two PCs in Kakishon to an exisiting group. One played a Suli (descended from Jhavhul himself, no less), the other played a human. Both had been imprisoned by Jhavhul for countless centuries. When the magics of Kakishon started to falter, the bonds on their prisons broke.

Liberty's Edge

D2. How the hell does this prison cyst work? It's all 5 foot steps? Where do the large creatures stand? This is an incredibly confusing room for our group to map out.


Damn, I just finished reading the directors cut version of 'end of eternity', and it is about 1.000.000 times as refined then the published stuff. Oddly I planed to portrait the pleasure palace nearly exactly as it was originally planed, because I saw no need from Jhavuhl to raze the thing to the ground.

I really like this "behind the scenes"-look. Many locations are the same as in the published book and the maps are the same, but of course not so nicely rendered. But the added content really lets this adventure feel much more refined and smooth. I especially disliked the way, Obherak was nearly impossible to reason with, nearly automatically resulting in a fight. Now it gives the players a real choice with whom to ally. Could be especially fun to constantly shatter their perception of the three parties, when each one explains their point of view.

I will decide that they can keep Kakishon for some very elaborate rope trick kind of sanctuary, if the don't side with the proteans. Lets face it: they will have their hands full with all kind of big stuff, when they are on the plane fire and in the last part try to save Kelmerane again, so it won't matter, that they have a paradise to retreat to, right? Might be interesting to roleplay the meeting with Nafeshti, when they have the map, she would most likely want to visit the place of her love-ones death, and this would most likely strengthen her bond with the PCs.

Well, that is still very litteraly month away, since my players will not start 'house of the beast' for about two month, but still :D

EDIT: I totally forgot to mention, why I wrote this comment in the first place :D So: we got this extra content for 'end of eternity', I think mostly because, the product that got published wasn't the product that everybody wanted, more sort of a compromis to get it out in time because the thing got to big or something like this. And I totally suport this, the published stuff is in no way bad, but one of the best adventures of the AP. Still, you can feel in a few places, that not only corners had to be cut. So, is there any possibility, that we could get some extra content with other modules? I bet during the design of APs you guys must have to gut so many good ideas, that it is a shame. I too understand, that you can't do this everytime, because everything that doesn't get used now could be some work that you don't have to do in the next or overnext AP. But still, I love this stuff and would really like to get a whiff of the other stuff that could have been but never will be :>

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