Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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So #13 Oklahoma State lost to #15 Oregan and #18 Pittsburgh lost to #24 Oregan State. Is it all the snow that's making Oregan teams play so well this week?
No, just underrated. Just because the bottom 3 teams in the conference suck doesn't mean all of them do. That's the same Beavers that beat USC, and the same Ducks that beat those Beavs (keeping them out of the Rose Bowl). PAC-10 bowl domination!
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Josh Peter explains how the Rose Bowl proves that the BCS got it wrong, and why we need a playoff system. Although the Orange Bowl last night seems to explain everything.
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Utah won the Sugar Bowl last night and now has just as legitamate a claim to the National Championship as which ever team wins the National Championship game. If nothing else, they proved that they should have gotten a shot at the championship.
FYI: As of 2004 the BCS has dropped strength of schedule as a component of the ranking system.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Utah won the Sugar Bowl last night and now has just as legitamate a claim to the National Championship as which ever team wins the National Championship game. If nothing else, they proved that they should have gotten a shot at the championship.
FYI: As of 2004 the BCS has dropped strength of schedule as a component of the ranking system.
Except they haven't, because it's factored into the computer rankings. Which the article even talks about :) It's also factored into the polls, of course, although in a more touchy-feely way. The idea is that the BCS didn't need to use some complicated scoring formula when the computer models and the polls already did that.
Bet Utah's regretting scheduling a IAA team now...though I understand the computers still like them more than Alabama.
Anyhow, it would have been nice to see what USC and Utah could do against #1 and #2...but I don't think either team drew as hard an opponent as Ok or Florida. So barring a really lame title game, those two still have the best claim.
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Actually the article says that it is felt that it is factored into the computer polls, not that it is.
Strength of schedule, team record and quality wins, three components used under the old system, have all been eliminated, the thought being that all are already factored into the computer rankings.
In fact, having dug a little deeper into how the computer poll actually works, all the computers do are average the results of six polls that are not the Coach's Poll and the Harris Poll and then spit out a number. Therefore, even the computer poll is simply averaging the results of a half dozen polls that are more about name recognition then anything else. More importantly, the computer polls are designed to be weighted in favor of the BCS conferences rather than allowing for an equal distribution across the board. They call this "strength of conference" when doing the calculations.
As an example, I decided to see how SOS would work if it were still in use. Using the old BCS formula I came up with these numebers:
Utah .85
Florida .84
Oklahoma .79
Using the BCS formula, Utah actually comes out with the best SOS rating. If the computer actually did take the strength of schedule into account Utah would have been much higher rated then it actually was.
We'll beat anybody.
Except Ole Miss?
Who do you root for?Except Ole Miss?
We'll beat anybody.
NY GIANTS. Got no time for the Bull-S@#T Championship Series.
NY GIANTS. Got no time for the Bull-S@#T Championship Series.
I shouldn't say no time, I do follow enough to see who will be playing on sundays but I just think college is full of crap until they implement a playoff of some kind.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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I shouldn't say no time, I do follow enough to see who will be playing on sundays but I just think college is full of crap until they implement a playoff of some kind.
I'm not a fan of the BCS, but I am a fan of the regular season being important. There's too many sports where no one gives a rat's ass until the playoffs.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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In fact, having dug a little deeper into how the computer poll actually works, all the computers do are average the results of six polls that are not the Coach's Poll and the Harris Poll and then spit out a number. Therefore, even the computer poll is simply averaging the results of a half dozen polls that are more about name recognition then anything else. More importantly, the computer polls are designed to be weighted in favor of the BCS conferences rather than allowing for an equal distribution across the board. They call this "strength of conference" when doing the calculations.
Huh? The computer polls aren't averages of six human polls. They are an average of six COMPUTER polls. And they sure do factor in strength of schedule :)
As far as strength of conference - if you think WAC doesn't deserve a ding for being a weak conference, you're WAC'd out :) Yeah, I know Utah is Mountain West. But conference doesn't appear to be a factor in Sagarin, which is the component I just investigated.
Anyhow, the computer polls liked Utah, so I don't know what you're on about...
I'm not a fan of the BCS, but I am a fan of the regular season being important. There's too many sports where no one gives a rat's ass until the playoffs.
I am not sure I follow. To make the postseason you have to take the regular season seriously.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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I am not sure I follow. To make the postseason you have to take the regular season seriously.
Compare regular season college basketball with regular season college football. People are a lot more enthusiastic about college FB, because every single game counts - big time. Not really the case in BB or even pro FB - past a certain point, you're just playing for better seeding or home field advantage.
College FB is just about the only sport where the first month of games matters.
Plus, frankly, any playoff that isn't a series doesn't really do much to settle who's best. The whole "Any given Sunday" pro FB quote applies to pretty much any sport.
Plus, frankly, any playoff that isn't a series doesn't really do much to settle who's best. The whole "Any given Sunday" pro FB quote applies to pretty much any sport.
Truthfully in sports, playoff series or one and done. There is always a team that loses to a lesser opponent, World Series was a perfect example. It's about getting "hot" at the right time.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Big 12: 4-2 (one bowl pending)
Big 10: 1-5
PAC-10: 5-0. Bwahaha :) Bowl perfection!
Sure, the bottom five teams stink, but that's the bottom 5. #s 2-4 of the Big 12 aren't looking that great with 2 losses and a squeaker (assuming Ohio State is still as overrated as they have been).
Texas got lucky, but we'll take it. Now, if we had a plus 2 system in place, Texas, Utah, Florida/OU winner, and USC could play in a final four tournament. How fun for the fans would that be?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'm a Buckeye, but that's the kind of game I like to watch as a football fan. Two teams, evenly matched, neck and neck.
Just wished I'd been able to stay up for the whole thing.
Two stupid false start penalties in the first quarter cost OSU the game.
(No, I'm not blaming the refs, I'm blaming the players.)
As to the Buckeyes being overrated, I think they were a little underrated this year. The main reason we get bowl games though is that Buckeye fan$ travel well and make travel agent$ hotel$ and conce$$ion $tand venders very happy.
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USC and Utah need to shutty. If UF wins, fine. But if OU wins, UT deserves a split.
Why the polls don't really work.
Utah will not get a chance at the National Championship for two reasons.
1) Their conference is not part of the BCS, and
2) They don't get the television coverage that the BCS teams do.
If you look at the Anderson-Hester poll which is generally accepted as the best and most accurate, Utah is ranked #2. This ranking is based on on-field performance, strength of schedule, and strength of conference. CBS should not be trusted because back in 2006 they were actively lobying for Florida to get into the championship game instead of Michigan.
Utah will not get a chance at the National Championship for two reasons.
1) Their conference is not part of the BCS, and
2) They don't get the television coverage that the BCS teams do.
...and that's why the Biggest Crock of S*** is a stupid system. Since when should television, opinions, computers, and voting determine a national championship? Imagine if CBB had no March Madness, and people and computers voted for the champion. Every year, it'd either be Dooook or North Carolina because of their overexposure.
BTW, huzzah to the Richmond Spiders for not being the best team in 1-AA and yet still winning it all. That's the way championships should be determined imo.
Utah, just like Boise State two years ago, deserves a chance to win it all, but under this idiotic system, won't get one.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Yeah, but the are 0-9 against teams that Utah beat. The only team in the PAC-10 that hasn't lost to a team that Utah beat is USC and that's because USC didn't play any of them.
I'm not sure what you think that proves about the PAC-10s bowl domination, but it's also flat-out not true. Where do you get your data?
Teams Utah played:
Michigan - played no PAC-10 teams
UNLV - beat Arizona State
Utah State - LOST to Oregon
Air Force - played no PAC-10 teams
Weber State - played no PAC-10 teams
Oregon State - beat 7 PAC-10 teams, lost to 2 (Stanford and Oregon)
Wyoming - played no PAC-10 teams
Colorado State- LOST to California
New Mexico - beat Arizona
TCU - beat Stanford
San Diego State - played no PAC-10 teams
BYU - beat Washingon and UCLA, LOST to Arizona
Alabama - played no PAC-10 teams
By my math, that's 3 wins and 5 (2-8) losses before we get to Oregon State, who is in the PAC-10, and beat all but 2 PAC-10 teams, finishing tied for 2nd in the conference with Oregon. They stretch it out to 5 wins and 12 losses (5-17), but probably shouldn't be counted in the calculation. Note that I didn't include Oregon State in the "teams Utah beat that beat a PAC-10 team", even though Utah DID beat Oregon State, obviously.
USC obviously DID lose to a team that lost to Utah, they lost to Oregon State - which I'd think was pretty common knowledge :) Oregon did NOT lose to a team that lost to Utah, their losses coming at the hands of Boise State, USC and California.
The PAC-10 did have a terrible year against the Mountain West (going 1-6 in the regular season, 2-7 overall), but your numbers are flat-out wrong.
It's possible I missed a win or a loss in there, but I'm sure my numbers are closer to reality than a completely fictional oh-and-nine.
EDIT: Corrected a math error. Apologies if there are any others.
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Then you would support a Ball State/Virginia matchup for the National Championship? Because they are 1 and 2 in schedule strength. Utah is ranked #2 overall in the poll, and if you look at the actuall rank, they are tied with Oklahoma for #1 overall in the Anderson poll.
What I'm saying is this: If Oklahoma beats Florida, AP voters should vote Texas #1. They won't of course, but they should. This is the previous AP poll:
1. Florida (50) 12-1 1,602
2. Oklahoma (9) 12-1 1,540
3. Texas (6) 11-1 1,530
4. Alabama 12-1 1,410
5. USC 11-1 1,372
6. Penn State 11-1 1,259
7. Utah 12-0 1,225
8. Texas Tech 11-1 1,193
9. Boise State 12-0 1,101
10. Ohio State 10-2 1,069
Here is the aftermath:
1. Florida: Picks up loss #2 vs. OU, thus out of the picture.
2. Oklahoma: Beats UF. UT was ahead of OU from week 7 to 12. OU moved ahead in week 13, but that was reversed in week 14 (the AP Poll would have sent UT to the Big 12 title game). OU squeeked ahead again in week 15 after they played in the Big 12 title game. I suppose that after OU is handed the BCS championship, the AP could go along with that...but OU is only ahead of UT by 10 votes and UT did beat OU on a neutral field. AP voters flip-flopped OU and UT several times, so there's precedent for them doing it once more. Plus, it split from the BCS to have its own voice...not to echo whoever the BCS decides is # 1.
3. Texas: Beat Ohio State. Being only 10 votes behind OU, could jump them if AP voters remember who won in Dallas. The whole UT beat OU who beat Tech who beat UT argument is thrown out now because Tech picked up loss # 2 and is no longer on equal footing with UT and OU. UT beat OU...if you hand a title to one-loss OU, it is logical and just to also hand a title to the one-loss team that beat OU.
4. Alabama: Lost to Utah, out of the picture.
5. USC: Beat Penn State, however hard to justify leaping 4 spots to #1 with a strength of schedule of 67.
6. Penn State: Lost to USC, out of the picture.
7. Utah: Beat Alabama, but hard to justify leaping 6 spots to #1 with a strength of schedule of 57.
8. Texas Tech: Lost to Ole Miss, out of the picture.
9. Boise State: Lost to TCU, out of the picture.
10. Ohio State: Lost to UT, out of the picture.
Anyone ranked 11th or lower: Hard to justify leaping 10+ spots in one week, especially given that some teams ahead of them won their games.
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I'm a Buckeye, but that's the kind of game I like to watch as a football fan. Two teams, evenly matched, neck and neck.
Yeah, I agree 100%. I'm a Longhorn fan, and I liked that I was involved and had the adrenaline going until the very end. Ohio State represented much better than I thought they would, and, even in defeat, I think they salvaged a bit of respect for their program after the last two embarrassments in BCS bowls.
Then you would support a Ball State/Virginia matchup for the National Championship? Because they are 1 and 2 in schedule strength. Utah is ranked #2 overall in the poll, and if you look at the actuall rank, they are tied with Oklahoma for #1 overall in the Anderson poll.
David, Wake Forest and Virginia have the strongest schedules. Ball State has one of the weakest(118).
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Then you would support a Ball State/Virginia matchup for the National Championship? Because they are 1 and 2 in schedule strength. Utah is ranked #2 overall in the poll, and if you look at the actuall rank, they are tied with Oklahoma for #1 overall in the Anderson poll.David, Wake Forest and Virginia have the strongest schedules. Ball State has one of the weakest(118).
My bad. I guess I want Ball State to be something other than the punchline for a bad joke.
My bad. I guess I want Ball State to be something other than the punchline for a bad joke.Then you would support a Ball State/Virginia matchup for the National Championship? Because they are 1 and 2 in schedule strength. Utah is ranked #2 overall in the poll, and if you look at the actuall rank, they are tied with Oklahoma for #1 overall in the Anderson poll.David, Wake Forest and Virginia have the strongest schedules. Ball State has one of the weakest(118).
Are you talking about the Testicle State joke or is there another?
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My bad. I guess I want Ball State to be something other than the punchline for a bad joke.Then you would support a Ball State/Virginia matchup for the National Championship? Because they are 1 and 2 in schedule strength. Utah is ranked #2 overall in the poll, and if you look at the actuall rank, they are tied with Oklahoma for #1 overall in the Anderson poll.David, Wake Forest and Virginia have the strongest schedules. Ball State has one of the weakest(118).
They ARE! They're the team that got beat the F$%^ down by Tulsa!
Wait. That makes them the punchline of a different bad joke...
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I think we're at least .00001% closer to a playoff now. More schools are griping. Lawsuits are being threatened. Congress is trying to pass bills. Plus, Obama's on board:
"We need a playoff," Obama told reporters after being asked about Florida's 24-14 victory over Oklahoma in Thursday night's BCS championship game. "If I'm Utah, or if I'm USC or if I'm Texas, I might still have some quibbles."
"It would add three extra weeks to the season," Obama said in a "60 Minutes" interview just after his election. "You could trim back on the regular season. I don't know any serious fan of college football who has disagreed with me on this. So, I'm going to throw my weight around a little bit. I think it's the right thing to do."
"It would add three extra weeks to the season," Obama said in a "60 Minutes" interview just after his election. "You could trim back on the regular season. I don't know any serious fan of college football who has disagreed with me on this. So, I'm going to throw my weight around a little bit. I think it's the right thing to do."
Actually, Mr. President, they could trim back on the rust-inducing lethargy the 4 week layoff they all get from the end of November to the end of December, and have their national champion around the same time 1-AA determines theirs. Imagine that. The "concerns" by those "in the know" of an extended season and lost class time are completely unfounded and blinded by green.