I'm personally not thrilled with the arcane archer. I've always found this to be an underpowered class whose abilities seem counteractive to Themselves. Let me elaborate:
Enhance Arrow: Meh. This is a really cool, really flavorful ability. That being said, it sucks. I mean, in a low-magic game, it's ok, but who doesn't have a bow better than+5 by level 10? This ability, to be worth it, really needs to stack with existing magical properties. Otherwise, I don't see how it's going to get used.
Imbue arrow: Potentially the best ability the Arcane Archer has, it actually becomes completely useless as it depends on spellcasting and the arcane archer gets no spellcaster levels. The typical AA is going to get, at most, a caster level of 8; more likely, a caster level of 3-5. What are you supposed to use with this? Ice storm? Fireball? These spells are already lame. In order to make this worth it, the AA needs at least 1/2 caster level progression. And why limited to Area spells? I think shooting (nondamaging) haste arrows at your allies or (damaging) slow arrows at your opponents would be really cool.
Seeker arrow: This is Ok, I guess.
Hail of Arrows: Too limited. Really, at this point, you're going to have rapid shot. I mean, I suppose making (theoretically) ten attacks at full BAB is nice, but, how often are you fighting that many foes? I would double this. Hitting 20 foes is cool, I guess.
Arrow of Death: The fixed DC is a bad idea, and too low. Kind of lame for a capstone.
All of this is just my personal opinion, but, can anyone really think of a reason to take this class? At this point, Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight do it better.
On a sidenote, please keep this Elf only. I've seen the possibility of others thrown around, and I personally really LIKE the prospect of racial specific PRCs.
I've done out some projections on Arcane Archer with just a single level of casting - otherwise full out fighter-type archer. That works out to be a fairly worthwhile choice. It just fails to really match the theme of Arcane Archer.
Ironically, the half caster level progression that failed for so many other classes would work quite beautifully here. It would give a very marginal increase to the "single level of casting" version, and make all the difference in the world to the strong caster version.
The only concern I can really see is it would allow an easy access to Eldritch Knight, with the loss of only a single BAB (but a total of 4 caster levels).
And Agreed - Keep it for the elves.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
|
I'd like to see a bunch of changes for this class, some of which have been mentioned by others on other threads.
1) 1/2 caster progression as mentioned above
2) enhance arrows should be changed to work like the paladin's weapon bond option, giving a pool of bonus plusses that can be applied to arrows. This would allow the AA to further customize their arrows, and not wast the 1st level version of this on a +1 enhancement bonus that doesn't stack with their bow.
3) seeker arrow, phase arrow, hail of arrows, arrow of death should all work off of a pool that would allow an AA to pick and choose what combination of them works best at the time. If they're fighting someone with cover or concealment, they should be able to use seeker arrow 4 times instead of only once. I'd suggest costs of 1, 2, 3, and 4 points for the abilities.
4) seeker arrow and phase arrow - these should apply to all arrows fired in a round, not just a single arrow.
5) hail of arrows - should allow a maximum number of arrows fired, not a maximum number of targets, and let the AA split those arrows amongst as many targets (or as few) as they want. Let the 8th level AA hit someone with 8 arrows that round. I know if I was facing an AA, that would scare me some, but the fact that he could hit me and 7 allies in one round - not so much
6) arrow of death - have the DC be based on the AA's primary casting ability score, so that the DC is 20 plus the modifier. Furthermore, if the AA uses and actual slaying arrow magic item in conjunction with this attack, allow those to grant a +2 to the DC (+4 for a greater slaying arrow.)
And Agreed - Keep it for the elves.
I'm going to disagree with you on this point. Racially limited prestige classes are problem enough in my mind, for a number of reasons.
Racial requirements enforce stereotypes (no pun intended), and usually enforce flavor as well. Our game worlds are very dynamic places, where Tolkeinesque traditions do not usually apply. Why are all Elves expected to be superb archers and arcanists who battle orcs? Why can't a human with the same training become an arcane archer?
Racial limitations, rather than class or skill limitations, place immutable rules on prestige classes that leave only one path open to them. Even prestige classes requiring a certain class feature allow some variance in the build. The other requirements for the arcane archer allow for a great deal of interesting builds, why limit them to just elves?
If this is going to be Golarion specific, then those of us using our homebrewed spheres of existence will likely have to houserule away such limitations. But I'd rather not see them codified in the core rulebook.
I, for one, was happy to see the racial restriction go.
And Agreed - Keep it for the elves.Racial requirements enforce stereotypes (no pun intended), and usually enforce flavor as well. Our game worlds are very dynamic places, where Tolkeinesque traditions do not usually apply. Why are all Elves expected to be superb archers and arcanists who battle orcs? Why can't a human with the same training become an arcane archer?
The thing is, I don't view PRCs as simply a component of character creation. I view them as representing a unique style of fighting/ membership in a unqiue order. That being said, I like the idea that races have race-specific prestige classes (being fighting styles and positions) that they don't necessarily share with others. Why shouldn't Elves have a specific style? That being said, one doesn't need to be an Arcane Archer to be an Archer, and an elf doesn't have to be an Arcane Archer, so not all elves are neccessarily Archers and Arcanists, but those who are have a special option open to them.
I'm ok with enforcing racial stereotypes(also no pun intended), as Dwarves and Elves have completely different builds and cultures, so odds are they are completely different. A human who has learned magic and archery from the Elves in an exception, and so, should probably be treated as a houserule (It's more thematic for such a person to be an exception to the AA rules than just open the class to everyone.
I like some of the additions to Arcane Archer, but I think they need to go further.
Adding weapon properties to Enhance Arrow is a good addition to a weak power, and I welcome it.
The fixed DC for Arrow of Death is flawed. It needs to be based on something, such as 15 + class level + primary casting attribute. DC20 at level ~17 is laughable. For an item you only get one of, that takes a day to craft, this needs much improvement for the flavor it has. This change is a no-brainer.
I would think that a class that requires spellcasting would have some sort of spell casting requirement. Either way a AA goes he'll have limited spellcasting, and won't have much to cast into imbue arrow.
I agree with the 1/2 caster progression, and the better enhance arrow, and with keeping it only for elves.
I also want the seeker arrow, hail or arrows and such abilities to be accessible more times per day. So a mechanic similar to barbarian's, monk's or paladin's is needed.
Oh, and better arrow of Death. I suggest removing the low DC and the instant death but put in huge damage potential with that arrow (like other death spells have).
Maybe on a failed save the target gets 10 damage per class level?
Or 2d10 per class level for a total of 20d10?
Yes, one half caster level progression for me too.
Count me in for some magic. Arcana archers need some extra caster levels. 1/2 sounds okay.
...
2) enhance arrows should be changed to work like the paladin's weapon bond option, giving a pool of bonus plusses that can be applied to arrows. This would allow the AA to further customize their arrows, and not wast the 1st level version of this on a +1 enhancement bonus that doesn't stack with their bow.
...
I was thinking along similar lines.
What I would like to see for the Arcane Archer is a boost in flexibility, something like this:At Levels 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9, he can choose one +1 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability he can use from then on to enhance his arrows with. He can choose from Distance, Seeking and the elemental abilities.
At levels 3, 5, 7 and 9, he can choose one +2 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability. He can choose from the alignment and elemental burst abilities.
At levels 5, 7 and 9, he can choose one +3 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability. He can choose Speed or Bane (which should be considered +3 equivalent instead of +1 for the archer, as he can always choose the correct creature type for an extra 2d6 of damage).
At levels 7 and 9, he can choose one +4 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability. He can choose Brilliant Energy, and something else if there was another +4 ability...
At level 9, he coould choose one +5 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability, if one did exist...
As a swift action, he can determine which combination of abilities is bestowed upon his arrows fired.
The total bonus of the abilities he bestows upon his ammunition can of course not be greater than +1 at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 5th level, +4 at 7th level and +5 at 9th level.
He can also always use a plain bonus to enhance his arrows instead of a special ability, i.e. if he ever gets caught without a magical bow.
I'm not sure whether this would be too powerful if combined with 1/2 spellcasting-class progression.
I'm also not sure if it is too powerful to be able to switch the special abilities on the arrows as a swift action; maybe it should be a standard action / full round action / daily?
I, for one, was happy to see the racial restriction go.
I totally agree with Brother Willi. What's the point of saying my gnome can't make arrows go around corners? Let people have fun the way they want to.
Imbue arrow: Potentially the best ability the Arcane Archer has, it actually becomes completely useless as it depends on spellcasting and the arcane archer gets no spellcaster levels. The typical AA is going to get, at most, a caster level of 8; more likely, a caster level of 3-5. What are you supposed to use with this? Ice storm? Fireball? These spells are already lame. In order to make this worth it, the AA needs at least 1/2 caster level progression. And why limited to Area spells? I think shooting (nondamaging) haste arrows at your allies or (damaging) slow arrows at your opponents would be really cool.
Well said, Velderan! This ability is way more cool with diverse spell options. Let's dump artificial limitations that do nothing but hinder fun ideas.
At Levels 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9, he can choose one +1 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability he can use from then on to enhance his arrows with. He can choose from Distance, Seeking and the elemental abilities.
At levels 3, 5, 7 and 9, he can choose one +2 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability. He can choose from the alignment and elemental burst abilities.
At levels 5, 7 and 9, he can choose one +3 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability. He can choose Speed or Bane (which should be considered +3 equivalent instead of +1 for the archer, as he can always choose the correct creature type for an extra 2d6 of damage).
At levels 7 and 9, he can choose one +4 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability. He can choose Brilliant Energy, and something else if there was another +4 ability...
At level 9, he coould choose one +5 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability, if one did exist...
As a swift action, he can determine which combination of abilities is bestowed upon his arrows fired.
The total bonus of the abilities he bestows upon his ammunition can of course not be greater than +1 at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 5th level, +4 at 7th level and +5 at 9th level.
He can also always use a plain bonus to enhance his arrows instead of a special ability, i.e. if he ever gets caught without a magical bow.
This is a good idea, and would give the Arcane Archer some arcane aspects without needing to have spells in particular.
However, since it's the equivalent of having a dozen varieties of arrows at once, or remaking your bow one round to the next, I think it'd be better if it tied directly into the spellcasting.
Basically, at the time that he prepares his spells per day, he can set his bow enhancements for the day, like memorized spells.
Then, as a class ability you can add in the "once per day, change as a full round action" or something.
..
Regarding the racial thing.
I don't really see why, or what about the Arcane Archer makes it so they need to be an elf in some way. There's lots of races that have a wizard, sorcerer, bard slant to them that would "racially" lean towards this class concept.
Back in 3e, when PrCs were strictly a DM device to spice up his Campaign Setting, yeah.. I could agree. PrCs were strictly meant to give a variety of options that were more ingrained into the setting. Assassins needing to "kill someone just to get into the guild" thing.
But after years of homogenization, and a shift in intent behind Prestige Classes from "DM device to add flavour" to "New ways to add more character options without having to rewrite a base class every time"... I don't see the need.
Now, if the class was meant to work around a specific item or weapon or thing that was racially elven.. like an Elven Curve Blade or something... I could see the restriction.
But just a magical archer? That doesn't need the restriction. That's like taking the Weapon Master PrC and slapping a Halfling restriction on it for a campaign setting flavour.
That's fine and dandy in a specific setting, but useless as a generic gaming system player option.
Regarding the racial thing.
I don't really see why, or what about the Arcane Archer makes it so they need to be an elf in some way. There's lots of races that have a wizard, sorcerer, bard slant to them that would "racially" lean towards this class concept.
Back in 3e, when PrCs were strictly a DM device to spice up his Campaign Setting, yeah.. I could agree. PrCs were strictly meant to give a variety of options that were more ingrained into the setting. Assassins needing to "kill someone just to get into the guild" thing.
But after years of homogenization, and a shift in intent behind Prestige Classes from "DM device to add flavour" to "New ways to add more character options without having to rewrite a base class every time"... I don't see the need.
Now, if the class was meant to work around a specific item or weapon or thing that was racially elven.. like an Elven Curve Blade or something... I could see the restriction.
But just a magical archer? That doesn't need the restriction. That's like taking the Weapon Master PrC and slapping a Halfling restriction on it for a campaign setting flavour.
That's fine and dandy in a specific setting, but useless as a generic gaming system player option.
I actually both agree and disagree with this
yes i can imagine lots of settings where restricting it to this, or any specific race / organsisation / theme does not make any sense.
however, i do prefer the 3e intent for prestige classes as a way of having setting specific themes rather than the just a mechanism for fun characters / broken builds
perhaps the simplest solution is to ensure that the rules clearly state which restrictions apply to Golarion only and which are core. That ensures that the Pathfinder world remains consistent but without unnecessarily restricting the core rules?
that might avoid this discussion getting mired in core vs flavour discussions....
I was thinking along similar lines.
What I would like to see for the Arcane Archer is a boost in flexibility, something like this:At Levels 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9, he can choose one +1 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability he can use from then on to enhance his arrows with. He can choose from Distance, Seeking and the elemental abilities.
At levels 3, 5, 7 and 9, he can choose one +2 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability. He can choose from the alignment and elemental burst abilities.
At levels 5, 7 and 9, he can choose one +3 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability. He can choose Speed or Bane (which should be considered +3 equivalent instead of +1 for the archer, as he can always choose the correct creature type for an extra 2d6 of damage).
At levels 7 and 9, he can choose one +4 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability. He can choose Brilliant Energy, and something else if there was another +4 ability...
At level 9, he coould choose one +5 bonus equivalent magic weapon special ability, if one did exist...
As a swift action, he can determine which combination of abilities is bestowed upon his arrows fired.
This is a cool idea, but it's still going to end up being useless to most PCs. I'd rather it only went up to +3 or so but stacked with existing magical enhancements.
This is a cool idea, but it's still going to end up being useless to most PCs. I'd rather it only went up to +3 or so but stacked with existing magical enhancements.
If I understood the rules correctly, what doesn't stack between bow and arrows is just the plain enhancement bonus - if you fire a +5 arrow from a +5 bow, you only get +5 to attack / damage.
But if you fire a Holy Flaming Burst Arrow of Distance from a +5 bow, you effectively get an Holy Flaming Burst Arrow of Distance +5, don't you?
So the Arcane Archer woulnd't care for a bow which bestows special abilities upon its ammunition, he would just go for that bow +1 / +2 / +3 / +4 / +5.
Maybe I don't remember the rules correctly... I think there was something about anything with special weapon abilities has to have at least a +1 bonus...
anybody knows exactly how this would work?
|
Regarding the racial thing... [*SNIP*]
Would you let a halfling or a human become a Dwarven Defender? Or any assassin pick levels in Red Mantis Assassin PrC -- even without joining the order? That's the key issue here -- unique and flavourful prestige classes that only certain members of a race or organization or culture can multiclass in. FR has a lot of them, and I've never heard any complaints about why a non-elven PC couldn't take Bladesinger levels, or a non-Zhentarim PC levels in Zhentarim Sky Mage.
On a sidenote, please keep this Elf only. I've seen the possibility of others thrown around, and I personally really LIKE the prospect of racial specific PRCs.
While I partially agree, I'd either make all PrC available to all
or
Make a racial PrC for each race
Maybe adding "must have friendly contact with an elven community" as a prerequisite could be a good compromise?
'findel
Would you let a halfling or a human become a Dwarven Defender?
Actually I'd like to drop "Dwarven" from the name, but then "Defender" sounds a little generic. I do think it makes sense to require one of the Slow and Steady or Stability racial traits. Sure, that means only dwarves qualify, but the qualification is less arbitrary, and it allows other non-core races to specialize as defenders.
I wouldn't be surprised if some people found the abilities of this PrC a perfect fit for a human paladin. Rather than put obstacles in the way of that, I would preface racial requirements (expressed as traits rather than specific races) with "The GM may require..." to emphasize that racial requirements are as open as your group wants them to be. Alternatively, a feat could be added that lets your character acquire a trait belonging to another race. A halfling could take the Racial Trait feat to gain Stability and thereby qualify for the Defender PrC.
|
I'm personally not thrilled with the arcane archer. I've always found this to be an underpowered class whose abilities seem counteractive to Themselves. Let me elaborate:
Enhance Arrow: Meh. This is a really cool, really flavorful ability. That being said, it sucks. I mean, in a low-magic game, it's ok, but who doesn't have a bow better than+5 by level 10? This ability, to be worth it, really needs to stack with existing magical properties. Otherwise, I don't see how it's going to get used.
Have to respond to this first but...what? Your characters have a better than +5 bow by level 10? At level 10 in CotCT right now, the highest my players have are +3s.
Even going by the new Wealth by Level guidelines (which are higher than 3.5)...a level 10 character has 62,000 GP. A +5 weapon is 50,000 GP, with a +6 being 72,000 GP.
So I guess if a player focused on hardly anything other than their weapon they could have a +5 by level 10...but if they have a +6 or a +5 weapon and lots of other gear, then something is wrong.
|
|
Imbue arrow: Potentially the best ability the Arcane Archer has, it actually becomes completely useless as it depends on spellcasting and the arcane archer gets no spellcaster levels. The typical AA is going to get, at most, a caster level of 8; more likely, a caster level of 3-5. What are you supposed to use with this? Ice storm? Fireball? These spells are already lame. In order to make this worth it, the AA needs at least 1/2 caster level progression. And why limited to Area spells? I think shooting (nondamaging) haste arrows at your allies or (damaging) slow arrows at your opponents would be really cool.
Stealing from the (much better thought-out, IMO) Dusklade ideas might work here.
Imagine a lower-level Arcane Archer being able to cast a Chill Touch that automatically imbued into each arrow fired (within the normal limits of the spell) or a Shocking Grasp able to be cast as a move action into an arrow that is fired in the same round as a standard action.
At higher level, the Arcane Archer might be able to cast that Shocking Grasp into his archery as a free action, and take a full-round action to fire multiple arrows, *all* enhanced by that Shocking Grasp effect. Combined with Rapid Shot or Manyshot, it could even be pretty darn exciting, like watching a 13th level Duskblade doing the same thing with a Whirlwind Attack / Shocking Grasp combo.
I'm personally not thrilled with the arcane archer. I've always found this to be an underpowered class whose abilities seem counteractive to Themselves. Let me elaborate:
Enhance Arrow: Meh. This is a really cool, really flavorful ability. That being said, it sucks. I mean, in a low-magic game, it's ok, but who doesn't have a bow better than+5 by level 10? This ability, to be worth it, really needs to stack with existing magical properties. Otherwise, I don't see how it's going to get used.
Have to respond to this first but...what? Your characters have a better than +5 bow by level 10? At level 10 in CotCT right now, the highest my players have are +3s.
Even going by the new Wealth by Level guidelines (which are higher than 3.5)...a level 10 character has 62,000 GP. A +5 weapon is 50,000 GP, with a +6 being 72,000 GP.
So I guess if a player focused on hardly anything other than their weapon they could have a +5 by level 10...but if they have a +6 or a +5 weapon and lots of other gear, then something is wrong.
Sorry, I misspoke. I meant by the time they'd have ten levels in this class (which'd put them up to 17)
Perhaps the following, subtle changes are the solution to making this PrC more enticing.
+ Add 1/2 Caster Progression
+ Add a +1 to the Enhance Arrow progression line
+ Increase the DC of Arrow of Death
I would add:
+ Allow more uses of the 1/day abilities (like Seeker Arrow, Phase Arrow, etc.)
|
|
Sorry, I misspoke. I meant by the time they'd have ten levels in this class (which'd put them up to 17)I'm personally not thrilled with the arcane archer. I've always found this to be an underpowered class whose abilities seem counteractive to Themselves. Let me elaborate:
Enhance Arrow: Meh. This is a really cool, really flavorful ability. That being said, it sucks. I mean, in a low-magic game, it's ok, but who doesn't have a bow better than+5 by level 10? This ability, to be worth it, really needs to stack with existing magical properties. Otherwise, I don't see how it's going to get used.
Have to respond to this first but...what? Your characters have a better than +5 bow by level 10? At level 10 in CotCT right now, the highest my players have are +3s.
Even going by the new Wealth by Level guidelines (which are higher than 3.5)...a level 10 character has 62,000 GP. A +5 weapon is 50,000 GP, with a +6 being 72,000 GP.
So I guess if a player focused on hardly anything other than their weapon they could have a +5 by level 10...but if they have a +6 or a +5 weapon and lots of other gear, then something is wrong.
Ah, my mistake, I should have realized that. Then yes, I do agree. :) I guess if you know you are going to take this then you can just ignore the Bow progression and focus on other items...but it does seem unfortunate that they can't stack, at least a little bit. Maybe half of the base or something (so a +4 bow with +5 from the prestige would be treated as a +7). It might be too powerful if they just stacked freely, you could have an epic bow pretty easily.
And Agreed - Keep it for the elves.I'm going to disagree with you on this point. Racially limited prestige classes are problem enough in my mind, for a number of reasons.
Racial requirements enforce stereotypes (no pun intended), and usually enforce flavor as well. Our game worlds are very dynamic places, where Tolkeinesque traditions do not usually apply.
Racial limitations, rather than class or skill limitations, place immutable rules on prestige classes that leave only one path open to them.
If this is going to be Golarion specific, then those of us using our homebrewed spheres of existence will likely have to houserule away such limitations. But I'd rather not see them codified in the core rulebook.
I very much see where you're coming from - I've stared at characters in hand and thought wistfully of Arcane Archer (even the 3.5 version) for them. But it is far easier to hand-wave away the requirement, than for a DM to enforce it. Elves, and Dwarves, deserve their special classes, even if just as examples. It gives flavor to the whole race, even if few take it. Honestly, I think if Gnomes had had a core PRC in 3.5 they wouldn't be gone in 4th.
Sorry, I misspoke. I meant by the time they'd have ten levels in this class (which'd put them up to 17)I'm personally not thrilled ...
Enhance Arrow: ...I mean, in a low-magic game, it's ok, but who doesn't have a bow better than+5 by level 10? This ability, to be worth it, really needs to stack with existing magical properties. ...
Okay... so you take your +5 Holy Shocking Burst Bow and shoot +1 Flaming Burst Axiomatic Distance Arrows. What's the problem?
I vote no racial restrictions on prestige classes. EVER. If I want to play an arcane archer, I shouldn't be forced to choose a specific race.
+1 level of spellcasting every other level sounds good.
I've never understood imbue arrow. If I can cast fireball, I can aim it exactly where I want it to go. If I imbue an arrow with fireball and miss, what exactly happens?
Imbue arrow should work with any touch range spell or ray as well.
Death arrow save DC should be 10 + arcane archer level + Cha.
3) seeker arrow, phase arrow, hail of arrows, arrow of death should all work off of a pool that would allow an AA to pick and choose what combination of them works best at the time. If they're fighting someone with cover or concealment, they should be able to use seeker arrow 4 times instead of only once. I'd suggest costs of 1, 2, 3, and 4 points for the abilities.
This could work out pretty well, since with 10 levels of Arcane Archer you could perform each of those precisely once per day.
|
|
Actually, you know what, I think I'm coming around to the idea that the +5 bonus is fine. Being able to pick an alignment opposite to the target (assuming you know, Holy usually works, but you may know they're Lawful or Chaotic or something) or an element that the target is weak against is a pretty awesome ability.
The Arcane Archer could still use some work, but the above ability is pretty versatile.
Actually, you know what, I think I'm coming around to the idea that the +5 bonus is fine. Being able to pick an alignment opposite to the target (assuming you know, Holy usually works, but you may know they're Lawful or Chaotic or something) or an element that the target is weak against is a pretty awesome ability.
The Arcane Archer could still use some work, but the above ability is pretty versatile.
Just to be sure everyone is on the same page:
"The elemental, elemental burst, and aligned abilities can be changed once per day, altering the type of ability granted. These abilities can be changed whenever the arcane archer prepares spells or spell slots each day."
|
Couldn't someone concievably enter this class from rogue 8? (Assuming the took the major magic talent.) Half caster progression wouldn't do anything for them.
No since the rogue talent acts like a spell like ability and technically does not count as casting there for makes a single class rogue out of the running for arcane archer.
I agree with the 1/2 caster progression, and the better enhance arrow, and with keeping it only for elves.
I also want the seeker arrow, hail or arrows and such abilities to be accessible more times per day. So a mechanic similar to barbarian's, monk's or paladin's is needed.
Oh, and better arrow of Death. I suggest removing the low DC and the instant death but put in huge damage potential with that arrow (like other death spells have).
Maybe on a failed save the target gets 10 damage per class level?
Or 2d10 per class level for a total of 20d10?
I agree with Archangel.
I like the 1/2 caster level progression, better enhance arrow, keeping it for elves, more times per day for special arrows.
I think we need to make Arrow of death like Slay Living spell.
Sannos
Okay... so you take your +5 Holy Shocking Burst Bow and shoot +1 Flaming Burst Axiomatic Distance Arrows. What's the problem?Sorry, I misspoke. I meant by the time they'd have ten levels in this class (which'd put them up to 17)I'm personally not thrilled ...
Enhance Arrow: ...I mean, in a low-magic game, it's ok, but who doesn't have a bow better than+5 by level 10? This ability, to be worth it, really needs to stack with existing magical properties. ...
The problem is that I'm apparently dumb, and don't know the way stacking rules work. I suppose that ability's fine. That being said, mayhaps it should specify that the special abilities stack with bow special abilities the way arrows do, as this rule is confusing. (Or I just can't read).
examples:
Ranger 3/Wizard 3
Fighter 3/Wizard 3
Ranger 3/Sorcerer 4
Fighter 3/Sorcerer 4
The utlimate purpose for a class like the arcane archer is to let someone play the "archetype" of the original ELF, from basic DnD.
This along with the Eldritch knight.
Does anyone remember basic DnD, when ELF, DWARF, and HALFLING were classes unto themselves?
why did people play and ELF, because you got some magic, and some fight.
In 2nd edition ADnD, we did this with an Elf Fighter/Magic-user or Ftr/MU/Thf combo. Progession was slower than a single class character, but if you remeber these kind of multiclasses were only available to elves and half elves, because of the magical nature of the elf and their ability to cast spells while wearing armor.
In 3.5, we have the ability to be an elf wizard with automatic racial skills in longsword and long bow.
Again giving us a spell casting elf with a bow and sword.
IF you gain enough levels you can manage to throw in one level of fighter to get the weapons and armor, then get the still spell feat etc etc...
But the Arcane Archer takes that time tested stereo type a bit farther.
I agree there should be some spell progression for the arcane archer.
And for heaven sakes change Imbue arrow. Does anyone notice you can CAST fireball farther than you can fire a long bow??
Whats the point?
I think Imbue arrows should allow for Touch attacks like vampiric touch to be ranged touch attacks via the arrows.
And for heaven sakes change Imbue arrow. Does anyone notice you can CAST fireball farther than you can fire a long bow?? Whats the point?
Color spray, sleep, glitterdust, pyrotechnics from a flaming arrow acting as the spell's fire source, web, deep slumber, dispel magic (area), lightning bolt, stinking cloud, etc. Even with area spells with a range greater than an arrow from a longbow, the arcane archer can use the imbued arrow to attack normally: causing arrow damage on a target AND causing an area effect spell to go off.
lightening bolt is not an area spell. It is target specific.
lightening bolt is not an area spell. It is target specific.Actually I believe it's a Area of Effect Line.
Really Ill have to read that more
Does anyone remember basic DnD, when ELF, DWARF, and HALFLING were classes unto themselves?
I remember. Still have all those Mystara Gazeteers
Does anyone remember basic DnD, when ELF, DWARF, and HALFLING were classes unto themselves?I remember. Still have all those Mystara Gazeteers
Me too. I'm SOOO old!!
"Prestige classes are purely optional and always under the purview of the DM. We encourage you, as the DM, to tightly limit the prestige classes available in your camopaign. The example prestige classes are certainly not all-encompassing or definitive. They might not even be appropriate for your campaign. The best prestige classes for your campaign are the ones you tailor make yourself." -3.5 DMG
When I GM, I want my players to play the characters they want to play. Multiclassing (especially now, thanks to the new skill rules,)and PrCs are a way to do it. If I ask a player why he wants to take a level of a PrC class, the answer better be "It fits where I want to take him," not "I need the bump for my Will saves."
The truth may be both, actually, but it should make sense for a character, not just min/max him. A human AA would be fine, maybe, if it works for the story we're telling. Seems like humans learn everyone else's secrets, anyway! An orc might have a harder time convincing me he was trained by an elf he used to be good friends with...
The Advanced Character Guide: Arcane Archer, on DriveThruRPG is worth checking out for ideas. It is a 20-level class, but the product also includes various PrCs and new spells, etc.
You know, it strikes me that there is still near-unanimous voice for 1/2 caster level progression, as there was in 3.0 and in 3.5. That progression has never appeared, however, and so now, barring a houserule version, it probably never will... because, honestly, who wants to playtest the class as written? Not I, certainly (and I'm the masochist who's playtesting a Beta monk). Maybe we should all playtest a 1/2 caster level variant, and if the reports come back describing THAT as a balanced, viable option, THEN maybe the class will get that change.
You know, it strikes me that there is still near-unanimous voice for 1/2 caster level progression, as there was in 3.0 and in 3.5. That progression has never appeared, however, and so now, barring a houserule version, it probably never will... because, honestly, who wants to playtest the class as written? Not I, certainly (and I'm the masochist who's playtesting a Beta monk). Maybe we should all playtest a 1/2 caster level variant, and if the reports come back describing THAT as a balanced, viable option, THEN maybe the class will get that change.
I've actually got a player heading for that, assuming he makes his way back to the game. I'll think about granting the 1/2 caster level.
You know, it strikes me that there is still near-unanimous voice for 1/2 caster level progression, as there was in 3.0 and in 3.5. That progression has never appeared, however, and so now, barring a houserule version, it probably never will... because, honestly, who wants to playtest the class as written? Not I, certainly (and I'm the masochist who's playtesting a Beta monk). Maybe we should all playtest a 1/2 caster level variant, and if the reports come back describing THAT as a balanced, viable option, THEN maybe the class will get that change.I've actually got a player heading for that, assuming he makes his way back to the game. I'll think about granting the 1/2 caster level.
The half orc, wizard/barbarian/eldritch knight is considering some levels of Arcane Archer (he's a half elf/half orc, instead of a human/orc hybrid)
Ive never liked the hoakey-ness of the seeker arrow, (guided missle anyone? Lame) Phase arrow riminds me of that dagger Gord of Greyhawk had that ignored armor, So I might see that one.
We intend on trying Arcane Archer WITHOUT seeker arrow, replace it with Touch Attack Spell arrows (so like the AOF arrows, you can use touch spells with the arrows)
This would allow the Archer to cast things like vampiric touch with his arrows, anyone have thoughts?
Think this will break someonething?
Too powerful?
I'm going to do 1/2 caster level as well and see how it came out.
I'm going to do the spell levels at 2,4,6,8,10.
I was thinking of spell progression like 1,2,5,7,8 or something, But
Basically I didnt want a spell level at 1, because of dipping (get a spell level an enhance arrow and then a spell level at 2 and imbue arrow and then quit the PrC) The Arcane Archer does seem to have the most interesting things early in the class, and later on things are Meh.
Ill let you all know how spell progression and touch spells instead of seeker arrow come out.