I would like to see Bimbo the Candy Bear in office, FTR.
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Can someone please explain how in the world they can say someone won a state when the votes are still being counted.
example: New Mexico 9:00 pm Central time. 4% vote counted, 37% Obama, 67% McCain and the state goes to Obama??? Huh?!?! The Math doesn't add up. Am I missing something vital here? Is this Fuzzy Math, whats going on?!?!?!?
They’re not using true math. Their taking a sample of voting trends (the first 3% to 4%) and basing the rest of the states votes on that trend to declare the winner.
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I'm a conservative first, and a Republican second...
And I am very unhappy in the direction the liberal left is leading this country...
For the record, I don't think Bush or McCain for that matter are conservative. Bush spent like a liberal, and McCain, well...
I think Obama will expand the government (thereby raising our taxes), and I also think McCain will do the same thing...
An "expanded government" = a big government. A government that has its hands all over the place because there is a belief that we a stupid and cannot take care of ourselves. A government that gives us a hand-out (as opposed to a hand-up which is what people really need if they're down)...
Handouts just create a since of entitlement...
[/end rant]
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
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I agree that Obama is a smart man but where do you get he's a strong leader? What has he lead that gives you that impression? I'm not saying that he can't be a good leader but he seems very inexperienced to me.It's all good. Now that it's over,....I can see your point.
Obama's popularity rating is going to be so bad in 4 years, that you could run Bimbo the Candy Bear against him. So, like, even if the fairness doctrine goes through the senate, it won't matter.
You really just hate Obama huh? Did he sleep with your wife or something? I look at Obama's ideas and see a lot of promise for making this country a better place. He is a smart man and a strong leader. Even if he isn't as great as I think he will be, I don't see how anyone could screw this country up worse than Dub-ya has.
Listening to some of this is like watching McCain's face in the last debate, a whole lot eye-rolling, sighing, and general disdain for Obama. If he wins this presidency, I would stake my life on the bet that he will be quite popular as a president and that this country will be a better place in 4 years than it is today.
I don't think inexperience equates to a lack of strength as a leader. During the entire campaign he has been even-handed under pressure and not succumbed to frustration when the opposition throws him a curve. He has been attacked mercilessly about every person or group he has ever associated with (even relationships he had years and years ago). He has weathered the storm and come through it better than before. A man who was a weak leader would fold under the blitzkrieg the GOP has put on to try to discredit his character and qualifications. He hasn't backed down from any challenge, and it wasn't he that came away from the presidential debates looking flustered and out of his depth.
I like John McCain. I really do. I just don't see anything in him that I have't seen already for the last 8 years. I am opposed to Palin for reasons I have documented in many threads on this site. The thing about Obama though, is that he inspires me. He makes me think that the decline of this country can be turned around and that the American dream isn't just for the super wealthy. His leadership is so strong that one of the most prominent members of his opponents party came out to publicly rally support for him (read Powell, Colin). Great leaders have to start leading somewhere. A lot of Americans think that Obama is ready to do that very thing right now. By tomorrow we will know if enough Americans felt that way to get him the job. You don't have to be experienced to be great at something. Some are born with natural ability and then work their tail off to hone it. Obama is like that I think.
I will answer your question, Crimson.
They make an educated guess. After so many people, they can say it's over.
An "expanded government" = a big government.
Just curious, but did Bush reduce the size of government? And shouldn't we take spending into account when ranting about the size of the government.
And where are the liberals leading America. I don't see them leading anything anywhere lately.
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I don't mind the Electoral college. I really do not. I however think that if you don't win State by State, but rather each Electoral vote were to count separately, this would be a much different, and as such a much closer to a popular and a more moderate vote. I also feel that this would give a validation to a Multi-Party system as opposed to a Bi-Party system that we have now.
Edit: Because I seemed to ramble and even I couldn't understand what I was meaning.
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I agree also we need to get rid of the electorial collage and make the election a populist vote.Man, seriously. How do we do that?
I think everybody, Lib or Con, would be behind that.
When I voted for Kerry in 04, in Texas, it would've been nice to not be peepeeing in the wind.
The only way we can get rid of the electoral collage is by an amendment to the constitution. So we would need 2/3rds of both houses and a majority of states to make it happen.
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I agree also we need to get rid of the electorial collage and make the election a populist vote.Man, seriously. How do we do that?
I think everybody, Lib or Con, would be behind that.
When I voted for Kerry in 04, in Texas, it would've been nice to not be peepeeing in the wind.
We start a Grass-roots movement by starting a website and explaining why we feel the way we do. Then do something silly and big to get attention then drive home the reason with a good example.
It should have been done back in the day with the Bush-Gore election but I guess no one was pissed enough to have done it.
An "expanded government" = a big government.Just curious, but did Bush reduce the size of government? And shouldn't we take spending into account when ranting about the size of the government.
And where are the liberals leading America. I don't see them leading anything anywhere lately.
I agree with you. The government and the entitlements grew too much under Bush. The only things I really agreed with Bush on was the war on terror and the Patriot Act. Hopefully, the Republicans can retool over the next few years and get rid of all of the Neocons.
I voted first thing this morning, then got on a train and went to work. I went for Barack Obama. I liked John McCain, especially in comparison to our current guy, but over the past few months what I thought would be a tough call got easier and easier for me.
Fun fact: my home district, where I voted this morning, is the official point that turned the entirety of New England Democratic. Chris Shays just conceded the race after urban centers like Bridgeport went for Jim Himes, with just 30% or so of the vote in, making the North East a big blue patch on the map.
Hopefully, the Republicans can retool over the next few years and get rid of all of the Neocons.
Hallelujah
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I agree also we need to get rid of the electorial collage and make the election a populist vote.Man, seriously. How do we do that?
I think everybody, Lib or Con, would be behind that.
When I voted for Kerry in 04, in Texas, it would've been nice to not be peepeeing in the wind.We start a Grass-roots movement by starting a website and explaining why we feel the way we do. Then do something silly and big to get attention then drive home the reason with a good example.
It should have been done back in the day with the Bush-Gore election but I guess no one was pissed enough to have done it.
Only the Dems were pissed off enough after the Bush-Gore election. Maybe the Reps will be pised off enough after this election that they would be willing to work with the Dems to remove the electorial collage.
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Only the Dem's were pissed off enough after the Bush-Gore election. Maybe the Reps will be pissed off enough after this election that they would be willing to work with the Dem's to remove the electoral collage.I agree also we need to get rid of the electorial collage and make the election a populist vote.Man, seriously. How do we do that?
I think everybody, Lib or Con, would be behind that.
When I voted for Kerry in 04, in Texas, it would've been nice to not be peepeeing in the wind.We start a Grass-roots movement by starting a website and explaining why we feel the way we do. Then do something silly and big to get attention then drive home the reason with a good example.
It should have been done back in the day with the Bush-Gore election but I guess no one was pissed enough to have done it.
Maybe...
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Companies supported by and propped up by the government to promote the government agenda sounds like the fascist model of business to me.What in the world are you talking about?
Ubermench is talking about the economics of fascism. The Republican economic policies, which Democrats are guilty of pandering too, of the last twenty years have increasingly come to resemble fascist economics.
All fascist governments have relied on the financing of a loyal cadre of corporate business owners to achieve power. The Republicans attempted to achieve a "permanent Republican majority" by creating the K Street Project, a link of soft money between the GOP and partners in the business community that lead to many Republicans losing office in scandal, including House Majority Whip Tom Delay, who used campaign contributions to control votes.
In return for financing, the corporations get special protection from the government: write your own regulations, outsource your labor and get tax benefits for doing it, get bailed out when you blow all your money on risky investments, and even high profit wars.
Toss in the occasional sop to the masses, like fake prescription pill benefits that are really more corporate welfare and saber-rattling at evil socialists and perverse liberals and presto, you have fascism.
Too bad it took a major market crash for Americans to finally get wise to how the Republicans pro-corporate, anti-America economic policies have completely screwed us.
Barack Obama's no socialist, we aren't going to get guaranteed wages or public ownership of natural resources, but he is a progessive liberal, and anyone who wants a good idea of what kind of reform is coming should check out the Center for American progress, Barack's "government in waiting", and their Green Recovery information.
This is very similiar to the first thing FDR did to pull America out of the Depression: dumping money into massive public works projects to create jobs to get money into consumers hands, which is known as "priming the pump."
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Just talked to my dad. He said today was the first time he's ever refused to vote in a presidential election. He's voted every single time since 1980, until today. In his opinion, there was not a single candidate worth voting for.
Meh, I was the opposite, I've been very excited about this election. I thought McCain, Obama, Clinton, and Biden were all excellent candidates in their own ways. Hell either way its a win situation.
I think complete distrust is one of the only reasons we still use the electoral college, besides the founding fathers' hope of both idiot-proofing the process and just taking a logistical consideration of how to get a consensus without telephones or email (they were too expensive back then).
But anyways, I think election reform is unlikely to happen just because both sides fear the other having some secret loophole to get more votes or some such; so they stick with the system put into place when the two-party system was in its infancy.
Put me in the "kill the electoral college" camp.
Lookout behind you it's a Neocon!
Boo!
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I'm a conservative first, and a Republican second...
And I am very unhappy in the direction the liberal left is leading this country...
For the record, I don't think Bush or McCain for that matter are conservative. Bush spent like a liberal, and McCain, well...
I think Obama will expand the government (thereby raising our taxes), and I also think McCain will do the same thing...
An "expanded government" = a big government. A government that has its hands all over the place because there is a belief that we a stupid and cannot take care of ourselves. A government that gives us a hand-out (as opposed to a hand-up which is what people really need if they're down)...
Handouts just create a since of entitlement...
[/end rant]
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
How would you delineate the difference. What qualifies as a "handout" versus a "handup" in your opinion? Right now there are people in this country giving everything they have to make it. They are working hard, making sacrifices, and in some cases losing everything they have. If a family already has a primary bread winner working full time and a secondary working part time and still fall 40% below the poverty line for their income, how would you give them a "handup".
It's easy to use words like that as though they are inherently obvious. I just think the conservative idea of a "handup" really amounts to a "sweep under the rug and out of site". I've lived my whole life below the poverty line. I have had to work myself to death to be in a position to finish an education and work my way into the middle class. When my jobs get squeezed by the economy, it's my hours that get cut not the owner's. When I have to pay $800 at a pop after insurance to get the steroid injections I need in my back to be able to walk, it's my family that doesn't have enough food on the table not the physician making six figures off my health problems. I'm not getting a hand up from anyone. Heck, I am lucky to get a boot to the face on most days. Nevermind a hand. But to make it less about me for a second....
I have a neighbor where I live who is a single mom. She has 2 kids and her husband left her right after the birth of their second child. She works full time during the day and goes to school at night to try to get her education. She has no family here. She doesn't have the money to feed her sons, pay her rent, and pay for school and then cover childcare on top of it. She leaves her house to work at 7:30 and gets home from school about 8 or 9 most nights. She could desparately use some money to put down on a more reliable vehicle, or to help cover her childcare costs. Yet what does she get from our government? Nothing. Why? Because the social services don't have enough funding such that even though she qualifies based on income and family situation, there are just families more needy than hers. It's almost a mirror image of the siuation my family is in except my wife and I are together and have 3 kids instead of 2. She isn't some lazy leach trying to bleed off society so she can sit at home with rollers in her hair and watch soap operas. She is working 13 hour days to try to get to a better life. But noone is looking out for her when she has to choose between antibiotics for her sick son or diapers for her infant because there just isn't enough money to go around.
Now here's the kicker. What would be a "handup" for this lady. How would it be a "handup" instead of a "handout". She is already doing all the right things to change her life. What she needs is better social welfare so that it isn't so hard for her to give herself the hand up. If they just cut her a check to help with her bills while she finishes her education someone would say it is a handout. But I think that if they did, then she could finish that education and put double her current salary back into the economy, which is better for everyone. As it is, she is facing having to leave her apartment to live with her parents or quit school because she just can't afford to survive and try to improve her lot in life at the same time. I only point this out to say that "handouts" are so much more complicated than just giving the poor money taken from the rich. This lady needs better social welfare so that she can get to a point she can support her family. But that would take time in which she would be heavily dependent on the system to survive, shelter, feed, and clothe her family. In the short term it would be a handout that helps her most. Longterm though, she will contribute more to the economy and society if she has that help now when she needs it.
Anyway, everyone has their own view on the best way to help people like her. My thing is that people talk about social programs like they are being vicitimized by a government sanctioned Robin Hood. That just isn't true.
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I also was wondering on this Around world, U.S. vote sparks buzz for change:
Many see initial projections for Obama as sign of turning-point for country And some of the things said in the article.
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This is very similiar to the first thing FDR did to...Wow, the Depression lasted until Lend Lease right before we entered WWII. Um, FDR did not "pull us out of the Depression". World War Two did...
Just wow...
Yep. There's iggerance afoot. Though, it's partly the fault of the textbooks. Read "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen if you want the straight skinny on the s#+% you got fed in high school.
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Companies supported by and propped up by the government to promote the government agenda sounds like the fascist model of business to me.What in the world are you talking about?Ubermench is talking about the economics of fascism. The Republican economic policies, which Democrats are guilty of pandering too, of the last twenty years have increasingly come to resemble fascist economics.
All fascist governments have relied on the financing of a loyal cadre of corporate business owners to achieve power. The Republicans attempted to achieve a "permanent Republican majority" by creating the K Street Project, a link of soft money between the GOP and partners in the business community that lead to many Republicans losing office in scandal, including House Majority Whip Tom Delay, who used campaign contributions to control votes.
In return for financing, the corporations get special protection from the government: write your own regulations, outsource your labor and get tax benefits for doing it, get bailed out when you blow all your money on risky investments, and even high profit wars.
Toss in the occasional sop to the masses, like fake prescription pill benefits that are really more corporate welfare and saber-rattling at evil socialists and perverse liberals and presto, you have fascism.
Too bad it took a major market crash for Americans to finally get wise to how the Republicans pro-corporate, anti-America economic policies have completely screwed us.
Barack Obama's no socialist, we aren't going to get guaranteed wages or public ownership of natural resources, but he is a progessive liberal, and anyone who wants a good idea of what kind of reform is coming should check out the Center for American progress, Barack's "government in waiting", and their Green Recovery information.
This is very similiar to the first thing FDR did to...
Thank you that was much better than the response I was writing.
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Yep. There's iggerance afoot. Though, it's partly the fault of the textbooks. Read "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen if you want the straight skinny on the s@*~ you got fed in high school.This is very similiar to the first thing FDR did to...Wow, the Depression lasted until Lend Lease right before we entered WWII. Um, FDR did not "pull us out of the Depression". World War Two did...
Just wow...
Don't worry, I was aware of said lies IN high school. Having a voracious appetite for reading, particularly history, lead to some very interesting "debates" between me and my teachers...
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1,461 days and counting.
Hope you're right, dude.
I hate playing Cassandra, I really do.
Obama is up in the popular vote still as well. I think America simply wants this man as president. I am sorry you are this against him winning. Whatever your beef with him, I hope the next 4 years for you aren't as bad as the last 8 under Bush have been for Democrats and Americans in general. This country has had some really tough times. I think you will be pleasently suprised at how much good comes out of Obama winning this thing. Either way, no matter what party you support or what candidate we are all Americans. It's time to put this campaign behind us and get to work fixing this country. When you are ready, we will save a spot for you to jump on board.
Don't worry, I was aware of said lies IN high school. Having a voracious appetite for reading, particularly history, lead to some very interesting "debates" between me and my teachers...
Unless the books you were reading were full of lies, or the books read by the people who wrote the books you were reading were full of lies, damned lies and statistics. It has been known to happen.
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Don't worry, I was aware of said lies IN high school. Having a voracious appetite for reading, particularly history, lead to some very interesting "debates" between me and my teachers...Yep. There's iggerance afoot. Though, it's partly the fault of the textbooks. Read "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen if you want the straight skinny on the s@*~ you got fed in high school.This is very similiar to the first thing FDR did to...Wow, the Depression lasted until Lend Lease right before we entered WWII. Um, FDR did not "pull us out of the Depression". World War Two did...
Just wow...
As long as I am not the only one who was suspended for correcting my teachers.
As long as I am not the only one who was suspended for correcting my teachers.
not suspended but sent to the headmaster and my parents called in- oops.
I still say Greenland isnt one of the seven continents
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Don't worry, I was aware of said lies IN high school. Having a voracious appetite for reading, particularly history, lead to some very interesting "debates" between me and my teachers...Unless the books you were reading were full of lies, or the books read by the people who wrote the books you were reading were full of lies, damned lies and statistics. It has been known to happen.
I figure you read enough, from different points of view, you'll be able to glean the truth from the chaff...
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As long as I am not the only one who was suspended for correcting my teachers.Don't worry, I was aware of said lies IN high school. Having a voracious appetite for reading, particularly history, lead to some very interesting "debates" between me and my teachers...Yep. There's iggerance afoot. Though, it's partly the fault of the textbooks. Read "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen if you want the straight skinny on the s@*~ you got fed in high school.This is very similiar to the first thing FDR did to...Wow, the Depression lasted until Lend Lease right before we entered WWII. Um, FDR did not "pull us out of the Depression". World War Two did...
Just wow...
No, you weren't :)
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As long as I am not the only one who was suspended for correcting my teachers.Don't worry, I was aware of said lies IN high school. Having a voracious appetite for reading, particularly history, lead to some very interesting "debates" between me and my teachers...Yep. There's iggerance afoot. Though, it's partly the fault of the textbooks. Read "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen if you want the straight skinny on the s@*~ you got fed in high school.This is very similiar to the first thing FDR did to...Wow, the Depression lasted until Lend Lease right before we entered WWII. Um, FDR did not "pull us out of the Depression". World War Two did...
Just wow...
No, you weren't :)
I think a lot of people posting here have, myself included. I got sent to the office because I corrected my history teacher’s comment that the USA has never been invaded by a foreign power.
297 currently, congratulations america.
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Huzzah!!!!!!!
Ladies and Gentleman, I give you the first African American President Elect in the History of the United States. Ladies and Gentlemen, President Elect Barack Obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think a lot of people posting here have, myself included. I got sent to the office because I corrected my history teacher’s comment that the USA has never been invaded by a foreign power.As long as I am not the only one who was suspended for correcting my teachers.Don't worry, I was aware of said lies IN high school. Having a voracious appetite for reading, particularly history, lead to some very interesting "debates" between me and my teachers...Yep. There's iggerance afoot. Though, it's partly the fault of the textbooks. Read "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen if you want the straight skinny on the s@*~ you got fed in high school.This is very similiar to the first thing FDR did to...Wow, the Depression lasted until Lend Lease right before we entered WWII. Um, FDR did not "pull us out of the Depression". World War Two did...
Just wow...
No, you weren't :)
War of 1812?