RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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What does this mean for the skirmish game?
Wizards of the Coast has chosen to concentrate its D&D miniatures-creation efforts on an accessory line optimized for D&D Roleplaying Game use. November’s release of Demonweb will be the last new set that includes skirmish statistics. We will continue to update all miniatures stats from previous sets to the current D&D Miniatures ruleset as promised, with the conclusion of that process scheduled for mid-2009.
In addition, official sanctioning of D&D Miniatures skirmish events will cease right after D&D Experience in February. We hope to see skirmish play continue at the grassroots level, using the hundreds of miniatures produced for the game over the past six years and encouraged by the passionate fan sites that exist for the D&D Miniatures skirmish game.
The skirmish game has many dedicated fans, and we appreciate the years of enthusiastic support that these players have shown to the line. Unfortunately, despite this enthusiasm, the number of skirmish players has been dropping steadily over the past couple of years. We had hoped that improvements implemented during 2007 and 2008 would change that trend, but they have not accomplished enough toward that end. At this point, we can no longer justify the design, development, and production resources required to support the skirmish game.
Let's recap: Minis cost more. The skirmish game is gone.
Why does WotC insist on further whittling away its customer base? Is this part of some brilliant scheme to win new customers through a clever series of product line cuts and insulting media campaigns? Has Hasbro finally instituted their Bizarro plan for success?
Seriously, whiskey tango foxtrot, Scott? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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That borders on unmitigated awesome, but not quite as much of a change as I would like. I could give a flying f!+@ about the skirmish game. Scratch that - I hate the skirmish game because it drives up the price of the cool minis. If I have to pay slightly more for a box and not have the price on chase rares be driven through the stratosphere (*cough* dragons *cough*), I'm generally okay with that, especially given that I currently go onto the secondary market and just buy cheap commons that are not good from the skirmisher's perspective.
Of course, this begs the question. If the skirmish game is no longer the focus of the minis line, then why the hell are the minis (a) randomized to any degree and (b) with a variety of rarities? I suppose I can live with those decisions provided that rarity is inversely proportionate to the coolness of a particular monster and not related to the frequency with which the monster appears. In other words, I want mind flayers to be common because every good D&D game should have some mind flayers, not because mind flayers are a dime a dozen in your average campaign world. Similarly, the lame monsters of the universe (unicorns? Are they even in the 4e MM) should be the rare ones. You can play D&D for years and happily avoid the entire ooze/slime/puke class of monsters. Those guys should be rare because they suck. I really hope they don't do the opposite (make the cool monsters like dragons/mind flayers/etc into chase rares and flood us with elf archers/purple oozes/shadar-kai).
I like it (in theory).
Edit: I must say that I'm very surprised though. I thought the minis line was hugely successful.
unicorns? Are they even in the 4e MM
Yes
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That borders on unmitigated awesome, but not quite as much of a change as I would like. I could give a flying f@&* about the skirmish game. Scratch that - I hate the skirmish game because it drives up the price of the cool minis. If I have to pay slightly more for a box and not have the price on chase rares be driven through the stratosphere (*cough* dragons *cough*), I'm generally okay with that, especially given that I currently go onto the secondary market and just buy cheap commons that are not good from the skirmisher's perspective.
Of course, this begs the question. If the skirmish game is no longer the focus of the minis line, then why the hell are the minis (a) randomized to any degree and (b) with a variety of rarities? I suppose I can live with those decisions provided that rarity is inversely proportionate to the coolness of a particular monster and not related to the frequency with which the monster appears. In other words, I want mind flayers to be common because every good D&D game should have some mind flayers, not because mind flayers are a dime a dozen in your average campaign world. Similarly, the lame monsters of the universe (unicorns? Are they even in the 4e MM) should be the rare ones. You can play D&D for years and happily avoid the entire ooze/slime/puke class of monsters. Those guys should be rare because they suck. I really hope they don't do the opposite (make the cool monsters like dragons/mind flayers/etc into chase rares and flood us with elf archers/purple oozes/shadar-kai).
I like it (in theory).
Edit: I must say that I'm very surprised though. I thought the minis line was hugely successful.
I think the minis line has been successful, but it's become apparent to WotC (finally!) that most people buy them to use for their D&D games, not D&D minis games. I also couldn't care less about the mins game. I only played in pre-release tournaments to get mins for my D&D game a week before they are released. I also hope this means we can finally get some affordable cool, minis such as dragons and mind flayers on the secondary market. Paying over 10 dollars for a chunck of plastic just because it has good DDM stats is ridiculous, and I hope that goes away with these changes.
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Why does WotC insist on further whittling away its customer base?
They are not whittling away at their customer base. They have a product that sells really well and they have fewer and fewer people playing the skirmish game. They keep getting feedback from mini buyers that we want less randomness and more connection to D&D rather than the skirmish game.
They have done what many folks have claimed they do not do - they listened. This is a very positive change indeed.
I also hope this means we can finally get some affordable cool, minis such as dragons and mind flayers on the secondary market.
Not too likely as the prices on the secondary market are mostly decided by demand from the RPG crowd. With a few exceptions.
It's unfortunate that WotC killed the skirmish side of DDM. Buying minis for my RPG game that could also be used in a second game was a great deal while it lasted. It's also interesting to see yet another CMG fail after a 2.0 rule change.
Should be interesting to see how the new packaging format works. We have a pic of a large, named monster. If that is one of the eight visible minis, how popular will it be? Will people just want one copy and the rest will set on shelves?
I also hope this means we can finally get some affordable cool, minis such as dragons and mind flayers on the secondary market.Not too likely as the prices on the secondary market are mostly decided by demand from the RPG crowd. With a few exceptions.
It's unfortunate that WotC killed the skirmish side of DDM. Buying minis for my RPG game that could also be used in a second game was a great deal while it lasted. It's also interesting to see yet another CMG fail after a 2.0 rule change.
Well the 2.0 rule change was intended to stop the decline of skirmish which was already happening. It didn't so the skirmish side is dead. I have to say though that the idea of always getting a large (I've even heard rumours that each pack will have two larges!) in every pack and you get to see what it is beforehand to be very enticing. I can't help but think that there will be dragons there as well as the typical giants/ogres/trolls.
And Sebastian - I love oozes so :-p :-D
I also hope this means we can finally get some affordable cool, minis such as dragons and mind flayers on the secondary market.Not too likely as the prices on the secondary market are mostly decided by demand from the RPG crowd. With a few exceptions.
Yeah, as a former skirmisher, I can say that the dragons and mind flayers, with only a few exceptions, had somewhat mediocre skirmish stats. The demand and the inflated prices for these were entirely a result of RPG demand and won't probably change.
But, Scott even mentions in his article that dragons will be some of the visible monsters, in the huge set at the least.
That borders on unmitigated awesome, but not quite as much of a change as I would like. I could give a flying f%!& about the skirmish game. Scratch that - I hate the skirmish game because it drives up the price of the cool minis. If I have to pay slightly more for a box and not have the price on chase rares be driven through the stratosphere (*cough* dragons *cough*), I'm generally okay with that, especially given that I currently go onto the secondary market and just buy cheap commons that are not good from the skirmisher's perspective.
Random Minis is why I stopped buying WotC minis. Too many stupid common repeats and rares I would never use. Maybe this will mean I can actually go into my local Barnes and Noble and find unopened boxes of minis.
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I think you'll find that these decisions were made simply due to customer demand: many people have been requesting non-randomized sets of miniatures for use as props for the roleplaying game.
The loss of the skirmish game is a pity, but I can understand it from a marketing point of view: the skirmish game was never popular enough to stand on its own and it only survived for so long by virtue of D&D players who bought lots of the cheap minis and wanted to use them outside of roleplaying.
I'm personally quite happy with this decision. Sure, it'll mean that the minis will be more expensive a piece, but if they all look as good as the goliath they previewed I won't mind paying an extra dollar for them.
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We had hoped that improvements implemented during 2007 and 2008 would change that trend, but they have not accomplished enough toward that end.
Oh, this is just ridiculous.
Minis sculpt and paint quality has gone down the crapper since Blood War and the 2.0 rules revision has dropped more tactical key features that you can point stick at.A critical fumble on the Bluff skill check, Scott.
When WOTC first came out with the random miniatures I bought several because I thought it was a fairly good idea, although the randomness really sucked. Prior to that I would always buy the metal ones and paint them. After buying several boxes over the coarse of 2 years I really started looking at what I had....repeats, repeats, repeats, and not the type of repeats I do want.
The type of repeats I wanted were multiple non-humans, giants, common monsters that are found in groups. Instead I got tons of adventurers that were the same or quite similar and repeat monsters that are hardly ever used in the game. Then the large miniatures came out, I thought great, about time. I got a half-dragon/dinosaur guy, a mechanical monster, oh boy, real useful....guess I will have to stretch the imagination some more, then came the giant on a elephant.....so much more useful than a standing giant.
Then my daughter started DMing, so I thought, I'll give her some miniatures....I've got duplicates, triplicates, quadruplicates. Figured I'd pull out about 25 or so for her to get going with. Yea, ended up giving her at least 75 of them, about 1/3 of what I had, most of which had one, two, three, even four duplicates.
Went back to the gaming store later on, she wanted to buy some miniatures....I said sure. WOW PRICE HIKE! Less miniatures for more money....Wow what a cool deal that was, and they are still random. That was the last box I bought...that was 2 years ago (or thereabouts).
Yea, I said enough of that! As a consumer I want to feel proud of my purchases not silently being ashamed of wasting money. Would I buy them again if I could do it all over again....nope, I would have stuck with the metal ones. Sure I have to paint them....but at least I get to choose what colors...and they cost about the same. Oh, wait...their not random....
Good business move on WOTC part, poor consumer on my part.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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The changes amount to a 60% price increase, and actually a 150% increase just since 2003. I think they'll see sales drop, and likely that will lead to another price increase - and at some point, people will stop paying $20ish for 5 plastic figures. I've been into DDM (for RPG purposes) since the beginning, this move is likely to propel my exit from being a collector. Won't promise not to buy a few, but the move to CAD design had already led to pretty bad sculpts in the last few sets, so I'm not sure I'll find anything compelling enough to take the plunge anew.
The line is clearly in trouble - I don't think the announcement can be taken any other way. This may save it, but I don't think so - huge price increases rarely save anything.
Edit: I must say that I'm very surprised though. I thought the minis line was hugely successful.
Yeah - that was always my impression as well. Guess I was wrong.
Especially during an economic downturn.
No, no, no! We've run the numbers repeatedly! If you make something cost more while lowering the quantity, then people will buy more because they value it more. See? See?
The line is clearly in trouble - I don't think the announcement can be taken any other way. This may save it, but I don't think so - huge price increases rarely save anything.
I don't think the trouble that the line was in had much to do with bad sales. Sales were probably still as good as they've always been. The trouble, I'm guessing, involved increasing costs.
They've pushed through two price increases in 5 years, as noted. When DDM first started, both labor and plastic were extremely cheap. First, about a year after launch, booster box prices went from $10 to $13. Then, a year or two later, they went to $15. Then, since the price was probably as high as it could get, they started decreasing quality in order to absorb cost increases. Of course, while that may have saved money, that hurt sales and brand perception.
So really, assuming that production costs are still going up, and I'd imagine they still are, this seems like an unfortunate, but necessary move.
Well the 2.0 rule change was intended to stop the decline of skirmish which was already happening. It didn't so the skirmish side is dead.
It's actually worse than that. The small decline in the number of skirmish players turned into a large decline as people quit the game due to 2.0. WotC could have fixed the few issues 1.0 had, but WotC made the bad decision to upgrade DDM to 2.0 because they were upgrading D&D to 4e.
I can understand why WotC killed skirmish. WotC has stated that 10% of sales are from pure skirmishers, 75% from pure RPGers, and 15% from those that play both. Killing skirmish results in a 10% loss in sales, but a major savings in development costs.
In addition, WotC can now concentrate solely on selling to the RPG market, which should theoretically have increased due to the larger number of monsters per encounter in the 4e design philosophy. Combined with 37.5% less monsters per booster, profits get a shot in the arm. As long as RPGers buy into it, of course.
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I also hope this means we can finally get some affordable cool, minis such as dragons and mind flayers on the secondary market.Not too likely as the prices on the secondary market are mostly decided by demand from the RPG crowd. With a few exceptions.Yeah, as a former skirmisher, I can say that the dragons and mind flayers, with only a few exceptions, had somewhat mediocre skirmish stats. The demand and the inflated prices for these were entirely a result of RPG demand and won't probably change.
But, Scott even mentions in his article that dragons will be some of the visible monsters, in the huge set at the least.
So, I get to pay more money for less minis, and I'd still have to pay 20 dollars for a single dragon or 15 dollars for a mind flayer on the secondary market? The loss of randomness is nice, but it's still not enough to justify the increased cost to me.
Director of Brand Strategy
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It's unfortunate that WotC killed the skirmish side of DDM. Buying minis for my RPG game that could also be used in a second game was a great deal while it lasted. It's also interesting to see yet another CMG fail after a 2.0 rule change.
I have used the RP stats to do more complex, RP-style skirmishes before, and I think that this will still be possible. While the rules for commanders and unit point values won't be there any more, I think that people wanting to use them for arena/goal-oriented skirmishing can still make it work, and the inclusion of a statcard for each mini allows for you to play this way without having to flip through the MM for each and every monster.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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I have used the RP stats to do more complex, RP-style skirmishes before, and I think that this will still be possible. While the rules for commanders and unit point values won't be there any more, I think that people wanting to use them for arena/goal-oriented skirmishing can still make it work, and the inclusion of a statcard for each mini allows for you to play this way without having to flip through the MM for each and every monster.
And D&D becomes closer to the Magic: the Gathering model with each change. Clearly Wizards figures that they did good with Magic, thus if they can only get D&D closer to that, they'll be okay.
As a person with far too many D&D minis and a former regular poster at Maxminis I've got a couple of thoughts. I'm not particularly against the end of the separate minis game as I never played it but I got to say this is going to create some real bad feeling amongst those who do play. While I'm not one of the people but the reaction on websites like www.maxminis.com has not been favourable.
Also the additional class powers that wont be featured in any book sound like a pretty low money grab to me. I get that they want to inject more interest into the minis line but seriously that is not nice. So if one wants to keep up with all the new powers not only does you have to keep up with the books but you now have to buy minis as well. That's an extra $77 for all of them and twice as much in 2009 when they plan on doubling the amount of sets then three times as much when they triple it in 2010. Not a good time to be a 4e completionist.
Having said this if they actually improve the quality of the minis which has been not exactly great recently then I suppose at least some good will come out of it. Having said that the probably I always had with them was less with the quality of the final minis and more with the design. Models like the Balhannoth, Blazing Skeleton, Cave Bear, Galeb Duhr, Immolth etc look laughably stupid in my opinion. My main issue with the quality of recent mini sets has more been with the design philosophy than with the manufacturing quality.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I also hope this means we can finally get some affordable cool, minis such as dragons and mind flayers on the secondary market.Not too likely as the prices on the secondary market are mostly decided by demand from the RPG crowd. With a few exceptions.Yeah, as a former skirmisher, I can say that the dragons and mind flayers, with only a few exceptions, had somewhat mediocre skirmish stats. The demand and the inflated prices for these were entirely a result of RPG demand and won't probably change.
But, Scott even mentions in his article that dragons will be some of the visible monsters, in the huge set at the least.
Damn. I didn't realize that. Oh well, there might not be as much of an upside to this change after all. WotC will probably continue making the cool monsters rare to drive up sales. I guess you will still have the benefit of picking your larger model, but if all I'm getting is a dragon and a handful of bytopian soldiers, I'll probably continue to pass.
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Yea, I said enough of that! As a consumer I want to feel proud of my purchases not silently being ashamed of wasting money. Would I buy them again if I could do it all over again....nope, I would have stuck with the metal ones. Sure I have to paint them....but at least I get to choose what colors...and they cost about the same. Oh, wait...their not random....
I think that, as a miniatures gamer, I've always enjoyed the painting aspect as part of the hobby. Growing up we always had a big love of "showing off" our latest character in metal! Also, no matter how craptastic the paint job, we always had a lot more appreciation for "I made this" than some of the rubber crap we've seen lately.
In addition, WotC can now concentrate solely on selling to the RPG market, which should theoretically have increased due to the larger number of monsters per encounter in the 4e design philosophy. Combined with 37.5% less monsters per booster, profits get a shot in the arm. As long as RPGers buy into it, of course.
Which they might. As crappy a deal as this is compared to the older models what other choice do DMs have? Its not like there is any serous competition in this market - and thats likely because the whole thing is just not feasible. When fans have begged Paizo to make plastic mini's for Paizo products the response from Eric has always been that only WotC has the market share to be able to do this on a scale thats profitable. Well it looks like even WotC has not been able to really make money doing this - so the chances of anyone else entering the fray and competing with WotC on price or quality seem pretty remote.
Its possible that customers will abandon the mini's line as being too expensive - thats a serous concern but if they do it will be because they have chosen to substitute something else for plastic mini's. Some might paint metal mini's but that is a pretty time consuming alternative.
Personally I might just make due with my current collection. A kobold is a kobold after all in either 3.x or 4E and one has always had to be willing to represent creature X with mini Y if one wanted to use plastic mini's in any case since the chances of one having 12 bugbears was unlikely (unless you were the kind of DM that went out and bought 7 bugbears from the secondary market before an encounter with 12 bugbears).
Damn. I didn't realize that. Oh well, there might not be as much of an upside to this change after all. WotC will probably continue making the cool monsters rare to drive up sales. I guess you will still have the benefit of picking your larger model, but if all I'm getting is a dragon and a handful of bytopian soldiers, I'll probably continue to pass.
"Prisoner" "Kobold Trap Setter" .. Ummm yeah I have a lot of use for that. I assume they were equally worthless to the skirmishers. I'm not sure what they were thinking with that stuff. Maybe the deeper problem isn't designing for skirmish versus RP, maybe the deeper problem is What The F* were they thinking when they made that.
How about more Kobold warriors, Kobold Shaman...
A bit off topic (but perhaps not to far), I need miniatures for my Legion game and the Heroclix are difficult to find not to mention the randomness again. My solution....
I bought white plastic cord clips that are normall attached to the wall. They have a flat bottom and are a little bigger than the squares on my game mat. The part the cord wraps around in is like a little plastic vice clamp to hold the cord in place. Rather than putting it on the wall, I'll lay it flat. This allows the plastic vice clamp to stick up.
I also bought some foam board.
1. I will shave down the base size with a file so they fit the mat.
2. I will then print off pictures of the Super-Heroes from my computer, reducing the size of that picture so they are about the height of a miniature.
3. Attach the picture to the foam board.
4. Insert foam board into the clip and I have an instant miniature with a plastic base that fits my map, with a picture representation of the Super-Hero or villain of my choice. I get exactly the picture I want, no painting, pennies per miniature, and pennies to replace.
5. And there not random.
For those struggling with D&D miniature costs....the same thing could be done.
"Prisoner" "Kobold Trap Setter" .. Ummm yeah I have a lot of use for that. I assume they were equally worthless to the skirmishers.
The human prisoner in manacles isnt useful for RPG?
What?
The Kobold setting the bear trap on the floor...Yeah thats garbage and not usefor for DMs...But the Human Prisoner???
Really?
Oh back on topic. I think this is a good change. Yeah the price of minis is going up but it was going to regardless. Thsi new format kicks the snot out of the sets of 60 random minis. And I never gave a hoot about the skirmish game.
Good change IMO.
"Prisoner" "Kobold Trap Setter" .. Ummm yeah I have a lot of use for that. I assume they were equally worthless to the skirmishers.The human prisoner in manacles isnt useful for RPG?
What?
I can deal with one... maybe two. But I got three, one in each box I bought. How many prisoners do I need? So maybe not useless, but not something I could ever see wanting 4 or 5 of. Kobold Warriors? Now I've been in a lot of games where I need 5 of those. Orc Warriors? Yes. Human fighter types? Yes. More human prisoners than orc warriors? No way.
'Common' should be a measure of how likely you are to use something, I'm much more likely to use a skeleton or a zombie (After about 10 boxes I have 3 prisoners, 2 trapsetters but no zombies?).
I think the change could be good but overall I'm not willing to take a crap shoot anymore with Wizards stuff.
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In addition, WotC can now concentrate solely on selling to the RPG market, which should theoretically have increased due to the larger number of monsters per encounter in the 4e design philosophy..Which they might. As crappy a deal as this is compared to the older models what other choice do DMs have? Its not like there is any serous competition in this market - and thats likely because the whole thing is just not feasible.
Well, that's not entirely true, but that's really subjective to your tastes.
Reaper has a plastic mini line now, it seems. Covers basic monsters (skeletons ...)
Confrontation is being raised from the dead in plastic format as well.
There are still the good old minis from Reaper, Freebooter, Crocodile Games, GW, some others for the metal lovers ... as well as new guys coming such as Helldorado, Oyyo, and uh forgot.
So you still have some alternatives, even though of course, it's not strictly D&D. So it's up to you.
One thing is kind of curious... the window showing what monster you are getting sort of makes it more difficult to buy these online. Stores like Amazon likely won't have any sort of preview... some other retailers will likely show which monster is in the window. Are retailers going to wind up getting stuck with backstock of unpopular monsters or maybe start charging different amounts for the ones that sell better and discounting the other ones?
It's kind of an odd sort of quasi-random format that IMO favored your FLGS over mass internet vendors. I wonder if that was deliberate.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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I know this is probably wishful thinking, but I'd love to see WOTC farm out their miniatures line to WizKids (although I'd ask them NOT to make them "clicky"). The sculpts for their HeroClix line get better with each release, and WizKids knows the miniatures market well enough to put out solid product that most gamers would be happy with.
Confrontation is being raised from the dead in plastic format as well.
That depends on your source. A lot of people claim that Rackham's desire to shift to plastic is what killed Confrontation.
One thing is kind of curious... the window showing what monster you are getting sort of makes it more difficult to buy these online. Stores like Amazon likely won't have any sort of preview... some other retailers will likely show which monster is in the window. Are retailers going to wind up getting stuck with backstock of unpopular monsters or maybe start charging different amounts for the ones that sell better and discounting the other ones?
It's kind of an odd sort of quasi-random format that IMO favored your FLGS over mass internet vendors. I wonder if that was deliberate.
Having 2 friends who own a RPG/Boardgame/Comics store with 2 racks of WotC minis I really hope this is deliberate. Amazon be damned. IMO of course ;)
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I can definitely live without the DDM Skirmish game, but I'm not quite sure about the price points and semi-randomness of their new concept. I'm not paying $11 (USD) to get 3 PC minis.
Looks like Paizo just got a bunch more of my money, because the last few bucks I spent at Wizards now have nowhere to go.
I'm not paying $11 (USD) to get 3 PC minis.
I have been collecting everything since DDM started so I have never done the math. I just groan at the cost of rares. But don't we still pay about $5 per lead figure? And they are not even painted?
Nostalgia aside, the pre-painted plastic has to beat the value of unpainted lead. I still buy a few lead figures, but I NEVER get around to painting them.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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I'm not paying $11 (USD) to get 3 PC minis.I have been collecting everything since DDM started so I have never done the math. I just groan at the cost of rares. But don't we still pay about $5 per lead figure? And they are not even painted?
Nostalgia aside, the pre-painted plastic has to beat the value of unpainted lead. I still buy a few lead figures, but I NEVER get around to painting them.
I have to disagree on the value statement. I'd much rather have a lead mini than a plastic one. Even unpainted. At least I can buy the one I want, and paint it to match my PC's description or, as a DM, the monster's description. Plastic minis, even when you get the one you want, are pretty generic.
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I'm not paying $11 (USD) to get 3 PC minis.I have been collecting everything since DDM started so I have never done the math. I just groan at the cost of rares. But don't we still pay about $5 per lead figure? And they are not even painted?
Nostalgia aside, the pre-painted plastic has to beat the value of unpainted lead. I still buy a few lead figures, but I NEVER get around to painting them.
You're right, lead figures do cost more. I gave up lead when DDM hit the market, before it flooded it with hordes of commons filling shoeboxes and tackle-boxes in my room.
But given the choice, I would probably rather pay $5 for one mini that is very close to what I want than $4 for one that is sort of close, but based on the PHB art (from my impression of the statements) and 2 more figures of the same "role", one or both of which are the wrong gender.
I'm not sure about the MM minis. I would have been ecstatic a few years ago, but looking over my "Have They Made a Mini Yet?" checklist, I see I already have all the major pieces from the 3.5 MM, except for my sad, sad dragons.
EDIT: Interesting, I note the line about "huge packs" in their statement. Perhaps this means they will go to marketing Huge singles? That I can get behind, especially if it means they go back to the Icons.
The math is interesting... $5 for one you will use but have to paint or $15 for 1 (you can see one) + 4 you might find useful and come prepainted.
Ultimately it boils down to whether you enjoy painting minis or want prefabs. I kind of like them both but got sick of losing the DDM lottery. So have been getting more paint it yourself minis.
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That depends on your source. A lot of people claim that Rackham's desire to shift to plastic is what killed Confrontation.
Confrontation is being raised from the dead in plastic format as well.
Well, they have been absent from my store for months, and have just made a reappearance, and the store owner was trying to re-order as I was in. Apparently, from what I understood, the company was being raised, though details were not quite finished yet, and not all legal things were settled.
Of course, this could be so much hogwash, and I would not know.
otherwise, the name of the company I could not remember is kraken ed.
they have a plastic mini skirmish line.
Well, that's not entirely true, but that's really subjective to your tastes.Reaper has a plastic mini line now, it seems. Covers basic monsters (skeletons ...)
Ahh - well this line has expanded slightly more then I had thought though Its not particularly cheaper then WotCs offerings. Less random however.
Confrontation is being raised from the dead in plastic format as well.
There are still the good old minis from Reaper, Freebooter, Crocodile Games, GW, some others for the metal lovers ... as well as new guys coming such as Helldorado, Oyyo, and uh forgot.So you still have some alternatives, even though of course, it's not strictly D&D. So it's up to you.
I think I mentioned metals though I'd have to double check. Thing is that metals have always been on the table and really there has never been a point were you'd not be able to pick up high quality metals for cheaper then low quality plastic. What keeps people from using metals is that they are very time consuming to paint.
Well for one, I used Kobold Trapmakers for various Kobolds when I needed them to be "uniform" and while the mini is ugly I think it has its uses. The prisoners I have used by far way more times.
I don't use the metal minis because I don't have the time and patience to do them myself and I feel even an inferior plastic mini that is painted and detailed is better than a statue looking metal one. Also the metal minis when you factor in a small amount of choice locally meaning I have to go online, oplus the paint kits to get what I want and in the end gettings someone else to do them, probably at a price, means the plastic minis CAN be cheaper. Now buying the boxes are definately not, especially if it is on a need x of y basis, however the secondary market for almost all of the minis you'd actually need for a game isn't bad at all, unless you need iconic monsters that happen to be rare like Dragons, Beholders, Illithid, Rhakshasa, and Giants. Oh yea and don't forget cool PC minis are always rare and pack a $5+ price tag too such as Dragonborn for any 4E player, so $11 for 3 suddenl;y doesn't seem bad in comparison.... Not that I want to pay that much.
Why does WotC insist on further whittling away its customer base? Is this part of some brilliant scheme to win new customers through a clever series of product line cuts and insulting media campaigns? Has Hasbro finally instituted their Bizarro plan for success?
No, it's because of the credit crunch and oil crisis, probably. I'm sure you've heard of them ;). In the short run, WotC or their suppliers were forced to buy the raw materials of the plastic at probably grossly-inflated prices due to the recent (though thankfully reversed) skyrocket in oil prices during the summer of our discontent. Coupled with the general economic downturn thanks to our wonderfully patriotic and altruistic financial satraps, the wisdom of housing activists, the restraint and aceticism of sub-prime mortgage lenders, and the oh-so-competent leadership of our US government, all of this eating into every corporation's revenue stream, WotC probably found that they had two choices -- either find places for belt tightening or risk having Hasbro just completely axe the whole line in a desperate attempt to get the bottom line up and keep shareholders (who right now acros the board are getting pitchforks and torches out) if not happy, at least not homicidal.
This one has nothing to do with the customer base. It probably was a measure to ensure D&D's survival in a time when Hasbro has very limited resources to lavish. Da Rouse has ticked me off numerous ties this year. This is not one of them. For him it's most likely either tick off the fans or lose his job.
I don't envy him the choice he had to make.
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The line is clearly in trouble - I don't think the announcement can be taken any other way. This may save it, but I don't think so - huge price increases rarely save anything.
The price increase is not necessarily to save the line. Plastic manufacturing is no longer cheap. Production costs in China have been on a huge up-swing over the last few years. Plastic is no longer cheap.
The changes amount to a 60% price increase, and actually a 150% increase just since 2003... huge price increases rarely save anything.
I can't speak intelligently about the mini line, though from an RPG perspective I found boxes of random minis nearly worthless (and thus I didn't buy them).
But I think WotC is getting a bit greedy. DDI subscriptions promise a gigantic profit margin, prices are going up on tiny little pieces of cheap plastic, and it's arguably becoming difficult to play D&D without investing $150 or more -- given that the concept of a smalll set of relatively self-contained core rules has been abandoned by WotC.
I think D&D is being priced out of reach for a lot of the customer base, and that it's going to blow up in their faces.
Just my theory :)
This one has nothing to do with the customer base.... For him it's most likely either tick off the fans or lose his job.
I think your post is entirely correct.
But I think it always has to do with the customer base, and I think this decision is fraught with peril. He can get fired now for failing to reduce costs, or get fired tomorrow for failing to maintain sales (and profits).
Not much of a choice :/
The price increase is not necessarily to save the line...
Of course it is. They wouldn't be doing it otherwise. In fact, you went on to offer an explanation why such a move was necessary to help save the product line.