I pointed on another topic, but then, maybe this was said earlier or something like that. If so, please ignore this topic to the best of your ability.
I was looking at the various topics and all, about the class abilities that need some change. There are many people here that are trying to balance things out and all. For me, the Rogue's well until now, but there's something:
Couldn't Trap Finding do something like the elf automatically seeing a secret door? You know, since the rogue is the guy who searchs traps, usually he's the only one who does that. But then, sometimes the player simply forgets to say his character is going to look for traps. Or even worse: There's a 40 foot corridor (with no traps) that the characters are going into. Afraid of traps, the rogue searches every 5 foot. IG this takes really too much time, and it's ridiculous.
Maybe there could be a line that said "With Trapfinding, a character is considered as always effectively searching for traps. Whenever a character with Trapfinding comes within 5 foot of a trap, trap mechanism or trap trigger, the Dm rolls secretly a Search roll to see if the character sees the trap. Note that the character still can search traps as normal.".
Better yet, if it was something like "(...)trap, trap mechanism or trap trigger, the DM compares the DC to find the trap with the character's Search+10 to see if the character sees the trap(...)".
Now now, this SURELY wouldn't give the rogue more power, and I can't think of reasons why this shouldn't be Backwards Compatible. It could remove a time-consuming mechanic, while giving the player of the rogue a little more room to breath -Now he don't need to state that he will look at every corner...
Well, just a little idea.
I actually like this idea very much.
At one point in a morass of frustration about this very topic, I even considered eliminating Rogues and Traps from my game. Luckily, cooler heads prevailed and in those situations, these days, I either
a) calculate the number of squares and use a random number generator to come up with that many d20 rolls.
or
b) allow a single search check to be effective for 4 squares.
Neither method is all that satisfying or efficient. I like the proposal here although Traps are still not my favorite mechanic in the game. I would really like to see a mechanic adopted that preserved the suspenseful flavor of traps while making them less of a hassle for the DM and PC's to deal with in game.
Elfing up the trapfinding ability has already been discussed. In fact, When I suggested making trapfinding as it is now (able to find and disable traps regardless of their DC) available to all and change trapfinding so it works like elves and secret doors, Jason said that the "need rogue" aspect to trapfinding isn't to his liking and that he will look into it.
But it's not just the auto-search action, because the players still need to remember to roll for it. There's a time-consuming aspect to the whole trap-finding exercise that makes it a chore.
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In my group's split of Perception into Observe and Notice, we also allowed for Notice (which is passive, always-on perception) to automatically detect traps of up to DC 20. (DC 20 is a standard pit trap, FYI.)
I don't like the idea of allowing automatic detection (or detection attempts, more accurately) at higher DCs. I don't see the point. One of two things seems likely:
(1) Rogues will buy up Perception high enough that they will be able to automatically detect traps, in which case why use traps?
(2) Some traps will be too difficult to automatically detect, in which case the same players that have their rogues Take 20 to find traps now will still have their rogues Take 20 to find traps. So what was the point of auto-detection?
-- Jeff
When I DM, I just assume that the party rogue is taking 10 on Search before moving forward unless otherwise specified. That's almost like "auto-detection". And dwarf rogues get radar sense for stone traps, too.
Exactly what I pointed, LP. If this would be written in the core rules, I think that many less iluminated minds would like. Also, now the party rogue's player need not to be remembering this always.
Not only do I like the title of this thread, I like this idea. I'll make sure the design folks take a look at it.
There was a feat in Dungeoncraft that allowed this very thing, and as soon as I read it, I wanted every rogue I ever made to have it. Not only would this be easier for everyone to deal with, but as a DM, you would feel a lot less guilty about places oddly positioned traps, since the PCs had a chance to find them.
In other words, as a DM, I've always hated putting a trap, say, in the middle of a long corridor of a dungeon, because you are either teaching the party that they have to stop and search every five feet, or else they just give up and hope they can survive the traps the bull through.
The other option, as the DM, is to only put traps in obvious places (look, huge double doors leading to the hall of the Fire Giant Lich King . . . I wonder if I should check them for traps). While that does make a certain amount of sense, not having some dangerous, randomly placed traps makes the dungeon feel a bit like its intended to be defeated, rather than something that is built to kill intruders.
Okay, that was a long winded way of saying that I could get behind this idea.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Add me to the mix for trapfinding = autodetect elf-style.
I believe the way I ran it IMC was:
Double moving or running = no searchies
Moving full speed = Auto take 0 to Search
Moving half speed = Auto take 10 to Search
I could probably be argued into:
Take 5-foot step = Auto take 20 to Search
Any search check also was "all adjacent squares."
As a side note, could I suggest the following:
Trap sense applies to all saves, not just Reflex saves. Rogues have to disarm poison needles and magic symbols, not just pits and scythe blade traps!
Not only do I like the title of this thread, I like this idea. I'll make sure the design folks take a look at it.
They have already done so in another thread. The idea received pretty much universal support and I agree that it is indeed very good.
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As a Playtest I will be announcing to my party at the next game that from now on the Rogue Trapfinding ability allows them to "passively search" for traps as an elf does for Secret Doors. I have every party member give me 10 to 20 (depending on the planned adventures) perception rolls before play begins (I pass a sheet and they roll em up quick) I will be using that sheet for rogues (There are 2 in my CotCT campaign currently) who get near a trap.
Everyone will be able to "search" for traps, but only the trapfinding ability will let them "notice" a trap.
Other thread covering the same topic...
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/design/bardMonkRogue/roguishSuggestionsByYoursTruly
Everyone mentioned it's being covered, but no one mentioned what the thread was... Ta da!
Other thread covering the same topic...
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/design/bardMonkRogue/roguishSuggestionsByYoursTrulyEveryone mentioned it's being covered, but no one mentioned what the thread was... Ta da!
The thread starter sounds like a genius! :)
