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Here's my $.02 on the rogue talents.
Bleeding Attack: Overall it sounds impressive but in our games combat is usually over before it has a big effect. Generally it inflicts damage for an extra 2-5 rounds before the target gets killed from some other method. At higher levels 5HP/ round sounds impressive but so much damage is being done other ways it generally gets overshadowed. It's a nice boost to the effectiveness of Sneak Attack.
Combat Trick: A great way to pick up Agile Maneuvers or Improved Initiative
Fast Stealth: Name says it all. I like this ability a lot because it gives the rogue a special edge to a signature rogue ability.
Ledge Walker: I haven't used it... I'm not sure I ever will. I don't know what would make this more appealing.
Minor and Major Magic: We haven't used it but in general I like it. I just wish there were a little bit more to it. Overall if I wanted some first level spells I would probably take a 1 level sorcerer dip for the other benefits.
Quick Disable: Our rogue isn't under the gun to disable traps in a hurry so this hasn't seen any play in our group.
Slow Reactions: This is actually quite a nice talent. Sneak attack someone then everyone in the party can bypass them.
Surprise Attacks: We haven't used this. The rogue in our party generally takes Improved Initiative instead which has the same effect plus other benefits (and can be taken with Combat Trick)
Advanced Talents
I haven't used the advanced talents as much so comments are mostly just my thoughts.
Crippling Strike:
Defensive Roll: Considering our rogue is the character who gets killed the most this is a good ability.
Dispelling Attack: I don't care for this one much at all. I rogue sneak attacks a fighter who has bull's strength cast on him and dispells the effect? This just doesn't work for me.
Improved Evasion: I'm not sure why this isn't a class feature already. It makes a nice rogue talent in any case.
Opportunist: This is a very nice ability, I like it in the rogue but the fighter should get something similar as well.
Skill Mastery: My big concern with this is that the rogue in our group is very stealth focused. This more or less means he's ghosting in almost every time.
Slippery Mind:
Feat: Personally, I think most of the rogue talents are nicer than feats. I suppose if you need a feet for something.
Overall my impression is that the rogue talents are a great class feature and a great incentive to stick with the class.
Here's my $.02 on the rogue talents.
Surprise Attacks: We haven't used this. The rogue in our party generally takes Improved Initiative instead which has the same effect plus other benefits (and can be taken with Combat Trick)
I just want to know, for this talent:
In fact it is written that "During the surprise round,opponents are always considered flat-footed to a rogue
with this ability, even if they have acted."
I don't understand, because during a surprise round, every opponents are ALWAYS flat-footed, even if the PC is not a Rogue. And as it is written, "During the surprise round" and "even if they have acted", How can it be a surprise round if the opponents have acted?
So is there an error, and we have to write not "during the surprise round" but rather "during the first round even if the rogue has not the initiative on the opponent?
Can you help me, please?
Here's my $.02 on the rogue talents.
Surprise Attacks: We haven't used this. The rogue in our party generally takes Improved Initiative instead which has the same effect plus other benefits (and can be taken with Combat Trick)
I just want to know, for this talent:
In fact it is written that "During the surprise round,
opponents are always considered flat-footed to a rogue
with this ability, even if they have acted."
I don't understand, because during a surprise round, every opponents are ALWAYS flat-footed, even if the PC is not a Rogue. And as it is written, "During the surprise round" and "even if they have acted", How can it be a surprise round if the opponents have acted?
So is there an error, and we have to write not "during the surprise round" but rather "during the first round even if the rogue has not the initiative on the opponent?
Can you help me, please?
Enemies are not always flat-footed during a surprise round, and surprise rounds are not always one sided. For example, say there was a party of goblins sneaking towards the party. The goblins see the whole party, but only the rogue sees the goblins. This is a two-sided surprise round since the party does not yet know about the goblins. Remember that enemies are always flat-footed until they act. So, a standard rogue is only going to be able to sneak attack an enemy that hasn't acted yet in a surprise round, but one with this can attack anyone. Really useful if the rogue is going a little ahead to scout.
Ledge Walker: I haven't used it... I'm not sure I ever will. I don't know what would make this more appealing.
What about an ability to climb at full speed as part of this? That would make it "more appealing".
I could see climbing at full speed as an excellent advanced talent,
but not as a basic one like LW or even to boost it.
LW is in line with the other basics that bestow a +5
starting level talents, like cantrips and orisons are for casters
They add a bit of colour to customise the class
maybe should be a third type of talent.
at a reduced cost at higher levels
or increase cost of better talents and scale talent points you get by level
game mechanics that treat gaining talents like gaining spells
evasion: I like evasion added to the rogue talents, and make it a prerequiste to improved evasion. rogues have made some favorable progress in hp and the skill system works well for them, I think the number of bonus feats a bit too much. this would balance it out a little.
lightning reflexes: this one and the improved version are good additions to the rogue talent list
Ledgewalker: could use accelerated climbing without penalty, and maybe keep dexterity bonus when balancing on a narrow surface as well.
minor magic: allow cantrips number known equal to int modifier and cast them once for every 2 rogue levels
major magic: nice ability, but a little increase would be nice, I think using it once for every 3 rogue levels would be fair
quick disable: It would be nice to extend it to some more situations, such as opening locks or maybe placing traps as well.
dispelling attack: no love from me, I hated it the first time around when WotC came around with the spellthief. mechanically, multiple dispels in a round will strip anyone this will annoy many, many players in the end.
resiliency: I don't like it, it feels 'forced' temporary hp to keep the rogue alive.. it doesnt live for me, defensive roll does something similar already
weapon training: maybe a bit much on the combat feats, there already is combat trick and weapon finesse, why this it doesn't exactly fit the rogue paladins, barbarians and rangers would be prime candidates for martial bonus feats after the fighter, not the rogue.
rogue crawl: can't imagine anyone bothering, 'stand up' is way nicer and one way to deal with being prone is enough for most everyone.
Feat: Personally, I think most of the rogue talents are nicer than feats. I suppose if you need a feet for something.
The only thing that slightly bothers me is that (potentially) a Rogue can have the Feat progression of a Fighter if he chooses to take a Feat every time he gets an Advanced talent (or even better; a Fighter can choose only a Combat Feat as a Bonus Feat, while a Rogue can choose any kind of Feat).
In 3.x, a Rogue could choose to pick a Special Ability at 10th and every three levels thereafter (and a bonus Feat was among one of those Special Abillities); now, he can take one every two levels... just as a Fighter picks a new Combat Feat.I suggest a limit to the number of Feats a Rouge can take as an Advanced Talent (three would be a reasonable number, back in line with the 3.x version).
Just my 2c.
Feat: Personally, I think most of the rogue talents are nicer than feats. I suppose if you need a feet for something.
The only thing that slightly bothers me is that (potentially) a Rogue can have the Feat progression of a Fighter if he chooses to take a Feat every time he gets an Advanced talent (or even better; a Fighter can choose only a Combat Feat as a Bonus Feat, while a Rogue can choose any kind of Feat).
In 3.x, a Rogue could choose to pick a Special Ability at 10th and every three levels thereafter (and a bonus Feat was among one of those Special Abillities); now, he can take one every two levels... just as a Fighter picks a new Combat Feat.I suggest a limit to the number of Feats a Rouge can take as an Advanced Talent (three would be a reasonable number, back in line with the 3.x version).
Just my 2c.
You can only take a single talent once, so there is no issue anyway.
You can only take a single talent once, so there is no issue anyway.
Usually, yes; the problem is that the text says
"Feat: A rogue may gain any feat that she qualifies for in place of a rogue talent."Reading this text, it's not really clear if you can choose to take a Feat instead of a Rogue Talent ANY time you could choose an Advanced Talent.
I remember Jason saying that Combat Trick, being a Talent, can be chosen only once; I'm not aware if this is the case of Feat, too
(previously, in 3.x, a Rogue could choose a Feat instead of a Special Ability any time he could take them, at 10th, 13th, 16, and 19th...)
You can only take a single talent once, so there is no issue anyway.
Usually, yes; the problem is that the text says
"Feat: A rogue may gain any feat that she qualifies for in place of a rogue talent."
Reading this text, it's not really clear if you can choose to take a Feat instead of a Rogue Talent ANY time you could choose an Advanced Talent.
I remember Jason saying that Combat Trick, being a Talent, can be chosen only once; I'm not aware if this is the case of Feat, too
(previously, in 3.x, a Rogue could choose a Feat instead of a Special Ability any time he could take them, at 10th, 13th, 16, and 19th...)
Good Point. I'll add it to the errata thread.