Monk - Ki pool (magic)... here's a thought


Classes: Bard, Monk, and Rogue

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

I had an idea about a monk using the ki pool to cast greater magic weapon on their unarmed strike. The details are under the spoiler below. On thinking about it, though, I think I like this version of the same general idea better:

As long as the monk has 1 ki point remaining (so as to keep the current 'reserve point' model), her unarmed strike is considered a magical weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 per 4 monk levels.

1. This helps satisfy those who would like the monk to be a better combatant without bumping BAB.

2. This helps monks compensate for their fists not being a golf bag full of weapons. At 12th level, they beat silver/cold iron DR. At 16th adamantine. At 20th aligned DR.

3. You could certainly keep "ki pool (lawful)" as a 10th level ability if you like. It makes sense. You get to beat DR/lawful at 10th, and then DR/good/evil/chaotic at 20th.

4. This change would make the notation of "ki pool (adamantine)" kinda superfluous at 16th level, since a +4 weapon is already treated as adamantine for beating DR, but if you are more into monks breaking stuff you could keep in something like this class ability if you liked:

Adamant fist (Su): At 16th level, a monk's unarmed strike is considered an adamantine weapon for bypassing hardness.

What do you think?

For some more thoughts on using the GMW model (I hid it cuz it got too long):

Spoiler:
I do like the concept of a power being "on" when the monk has a reserve of ki points. It's kind of a neat thought. The thing is, in realistic terms it basically means it is a power that costs 1 ki point to use (i.e., your LAST ki point). If there were multiple 'reserve' powers then they could all be used for the power of that same ki point.

Anyway, thought is really this. Given the following:

A. A monk gets his ki pool at 4th level; and,
B. A monk can have his unarmed strike count as magic for the net cost of 1 ki point; and,
C. The greater magic weapon spell grants a +1 enhancement bonus to a weapon for every 4 levels; then...

Why not enable a monk to use the effect of greater magic weapon on his unarmed strike as a ki power that costs 1 ki point.

The potential downside - the power does have a duration, so it can run out. It's not always on. Though, yknow, you could just use the power again by spending another ki point, and it lasts a minimum of 4 HOURS, which is usually plenty o time in game terms.

The potential upside:

Well, rather than our much-loved language that "well, it bypasses DR as if it were magic, but it's not really exactly magic either, so no pluses for you!," the monk actually GETS an attack and damage bonus that scales up with level. This can help satisfy those crying for the monk to have better attacks and damage without forcing any change in BAB or anything else.

The GMW/GMF tree of spells and their mechanics are well-known and well-established. It's a simple benchmark. It also happens to coincide nicely with the level scaling of the monk's AC bonus (it's like they're using magic vestment on their robes as a free ki pool power).

Heck, if you want to keep it as a 'reserve' power then don't worry about making it be activated. Just say "the monk enjoys the benefits of GMW when making unarmed strike attacks as long as she has 1 ki point remaining" and you're done.

Easy peasy.

Scarab Sages

Jason N, I always wondered why monks didn't have this ability anyway. I agree with all of your points. Add in the fact that it allows the monk to buy some neat magic items instead of paying for the ubiquitous amulet of mighty fists and suddenly the monk isn't too shabby.


Or, to continue the more radical thoughts from the slow fall thread, replace the ki pool with a paladin-scaled spells list. Feather fall, jump, and greater magic fang (self only) would all be on the monk's spell list.


I like the idea of the monk getting a scaling version of greater magic weapon. Jason has stated that he is not going to change monk BAB, but they really need some way to hit a little better. I currently have a 5th level monk, and he was awesome the first 4 levels. I can already tell though that he is starting to fall behind. A paladin in our group took 2 weapon fighting and can basically hit with 2 attacks in a round the same as my monk, with probably the same or slightly better attack bonus. Plus 4 or 5 better AC.

I honestly think the monk can use a few additional improvements. I believe they should get their ki pool a number of times per day equal to their level + wis modifier, same as with stunning blows. Having to basically "save" one use per day just in case you have to hit something that needs magic limits the very few uses you get anyway.

Please fix the slow fall!

Scarab Sages

Kirth Gersen wrote:
Or, to continue the more radical thoughts from the slow fall thread, replace the ki pool with a paladin-scaled spells list. Feather fall, jump, and greater magic fang (self only) would all be on the monk's spell list.

That would be a great idea for alternate classes for a Pathfinder Unearthed book (which should be called the Codex Decemvirate).


Why would it be a book about the government of 10 men? It's definitely a cool name, but aren't there eleven classes anyway?

Scarab Sages

Arakhor wrote:
Why would it be a book about the government of 10 men? It's definitely a cool name, but aren't there eleven classes anyway?

'Cause it's the name of the founders of the Pathfinder Society.

Maybe they deny the existence of Paladins? ;)


Jal Dorak wrote:
That would be a great idea for alternate classes for a Pathfinder Unearthed book.

I posted it here (the variant monk, not the classes book).

Liberty's Edge

Jason Nelson wrote:

I had an idea about a monk using the ki pool to cast greater magic weapon on their unarmed strike. The details are under the spoiler below. On thinking about it, though, I think I like this version of the same general idea better:

As long as the monk has 1 ki point remaining (so as to keep the current 'reserve point' model), her unarmed strike is considered a magical weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 per 4 monk levels.

1. This helps satisfy those who would like the monk to be a better combatant without bumping BAB.

2. This helps monks compensate for their fists not being a golf bag full of weapons. At 12th level, they beat silver/cold iron DR. At 16th adamantine. At 20th aligned DR.

3. You could certainly keep "ki pool (lawful)" as a 10th level ability if you like. It makes sense. You get to beat DR/lawful at 10th, and then DR/good/evil/chaotic at 20th.

4. This change would make the notation of "ki pool (adamantine)" kinda superfluous at 16th level, since a +4 weapon is already treated as adamantine for beating DR, but if you are more into monks breaking stuff you could keep in something like this class ability if you liked:

Adamant fist (Su): At 16th level, a monk's unarmed strike is considered an adamantine weapon for bypassing hardness.

What do you think?

For some more thoughts on using the GMW model (I hid it cuz it got too long):

[spoiler]I do like the concept of a power being "on" when the monk has a reserve of ki points. It's kind of a neat thought. The thing is, in realistic terms it basically means it is a power that costs 1 ki point to use (i.e., your LAST ki point). If there were multiple 'reserve' powers then they could all be used for the power of that same ki point.

Anyway, thought is really this. Given the following:

A. A monk gets his ki pool at 4th level; and,
B. A monk can have his unarmed strike count as magic for the net cost of 1 ki point; and,
C. The greater magic weapon spell grants a +1 enhancement...

With this in regard, I actually just posted something similar that would make use of their ki pool on this thread.


I like the idea. The spending of points for a duration smacks a bit too much of 'activation' rather than 'inherent improvement' but everything before the spoiler made perfect sense.

...You mean it doesn't say that in the book?

*grins* Goodpeople, I think we're on to something.


Perhaps somthing similer to the Psychic enchantment from the Psionics book? Wherin the monk's fist count as being a +1-5 weapon depending on how many ki points he has? having more ki points keeps the bonus at +5 but it decreases as more points are used. This could also be an easy way to limit at what level you gain these higher enchantments, just say that monk won't have X number of ki points until a certain level.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Nero24200 wrote:
Perhaps somthing similer to the Psychic enchantment from the Psionics book? Wherin the monk's fist count as being a +1-5 weapon depending on how many ki points he has? having more ki points keeps the bonus at +5 but it decreases as more points are used. This could also be an easy way to limit at what level you gain these higher enchantments, just say that monk won't have X number of ki points until a certain level.

I like that as a notion, with the caveat that enhancement bonus be capped by level and/or ki points, so a high-WIS monk doesn't get +5 fists of fury at 4th level. Still, power reserve = enhancement bonus has a certain savor to it.

Then again, this ability is basically similar to a 3rd level spell (GMW/GMF) that scales up with level. We don't make a cleric or druid spend a high-level resource (which 5 ki points certainly would be even at high levels - even a 20th level druid with a WIS of 30 would only have 20 ki points. A 10th level druid with WIS 20 would only have 10.), so why should we force the monk to do so?

I think this might put to great a cap on the monk's ability to do other fun stuff. Maybe that's fair - getting a +5 to all your unarmed attacks is pretty sweet. Still, it feels like a little too much to me.

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