Channeling Negative Energy

[kitenerd]

Why doesn't Channel Negative Energy have the possibility of frightening good opponents?

If undead run in fear from the inherent "goodness" of the cleric doing the channeling, shouldn't good characters have the potential to cower in revulsion from the sheer evil emanating from the cleric who is channeling negative energy?

I just assumed this, and got burned GMing last night when the party came up against the Evil Cleric and his undead hordes. One of the players pointed out that there was not frightened component to Channel Negative Energy and it kinda chopped the encounter off at the knees. Ended up casting Doom for a similar effect, but it did bring up the question.

Is there a design reason for this?

[BlaineTog]

Yeah, given how good Channel Positive Energy is, I totally agree with you.

[Arakhor]

That sounds like a cool idea. Go for it! :)

[Snoring Rock]

Here is my thought on this. Undead are mindless. Well, most are. So positive energy has an adverse affect on them. However, a good cleric cannot frighten or turn an evil assassin. He is living, and has his own agency. His socio-political views as an assassin and upholding evil dont change the fact that he has a mind (will) and he is alive. The same is true of evil clerics. They are living entities, placing them as part of the positive living structure. I think that was the original basis way back in the days of AD&D and soforth.

Now perhaps on another plane, negative energy could in fact have the same kind of effect on the living. But its hard to imagine it in the prime mateial plane. I hope I make sense. I underastand the premise, but under what circumstance is positive energy mirrored? Maybe if on another plane there are "live" zombies captured and brought there as mindless slaves. Which in effect is what most undead are on this plane.

But there is merit to the suggestion.

Ok I am rambling.....

[Tholas]

Basically I like the idea of an adverse effect beside damage. But I think the cowering condition is too severe a penalty and it should work against all living creatures and not only good aligned.

I'd like to propose the following:

Alternate negative turning effect wrote:

...
All living creaturesin this radius take 1d6 points of negative energy damage plus 1d6 points of negative energy damage for every two cleric levels you have attained beyond 1st (1d6 at 1st level, 2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on) and are shaken for 1d4 rounds + your Charisma modifier. Living creatures in this radius are allowed a Will save that negates the shaken condition and results in half damage."
...

An alternative to shaken would be frightened, but personally I don't like the idea of fleeing enemies. They might come back with more than you can handle ...

[Hojas]

We have a cleric of Urgathoa in our RotR campaign and we say bring it on! It would be great to have a shaken effect go along with the negative energy. The evil cleric is giving up all that extra healing after all :)

[Snoring Rock]

I like that idea as long as it is "all living" in the affected area. I could live with that.

[Montalve]

Snoring Rock wrote:

Here is my thought on this. Undead are mindless. Well, most are. So positive energy has an adverse affect on them. However, a good cleric cannot frighten or turn an evil assassin. He is living, and has his own agency. His socio-political views as an assassin and upholding evil dont change the fact that he has a mind (will) and he is alive. The same is true of evil clerics. They are living entities, placing them as part of the positive living structure. I think that was the original basis way back in the days of AD&D and soforth.

i agree

you cannot use the rules of cowering for living beings, undeads are an small niche or group

livign beings are a lot larger group

[Skullking]

Tholas wrote:

I'd like to propose the following:

Alternate negative turning effect wrote:

...
All living creaturesin this radius take 1d6 points of negative energy damage plus 1d6 points of negative energy damage for every two cleric levels you have attained beyond 1st (1d6 at 1st level, 2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on) and are shaken for 1d4 rounds + your Charisma modifier. Living creatures in this radius are allowed a Will save that negates the shaken condition and results in half damage."
...

This I think is a very cool suggestion and gives evil clerics a bit more of a sinister aura.

[kitenerd]

Thanks for the input - i like a lot of what has been discussed and agree with the fact that it should be all living rather than just good aligned.

My use of cower was just flowery speech, completely forgetting that cowering is a condition in its own right. I was referring to the same frightened condition that accompanies Channel Positive Energy.

I think the best way to address this as a one off is to create a feat as a home rule (and maybe Paizo wants to consider this):

Chill of the Grave (or something less exciting but more explanatory like Frightful Channel): Your Channel Negative Energy is especially intimidating. Any living creature that fails a save against your Channel Negative Energy gains the Frightened condition for 1d4rnds

I like this... if it works out to be too powerful or unbalanced it is a simple matter to up the prerequisite for the feat so that it comes in at a more appropriate power level.

Hmmmm.... now to write another encounter ;)

Arnold