Hi, just wanted to say I'm really sorry about the delay in posting lately. Finals...
I'll post as quickly as I can today, I've got a while yet before I can. If I'm holding everyone up though, please don't hesitate to take my action for me if you have to.
Ranged AoOs don't really make sense. If an archer's skill and speed is already measured by how many attacks he can make in a round (through Base Attack Bonus), then he should be able to make attacks as normal. If it takes three rounds to get there, and the archer can act normally in those three rounds, he would get three shots. As normal.
So that fighter jumps from behind cover surprising his foes and he pulls an attack on two of them before they can react unless he/she has combat reflexes of course.
Now an archer gets this same effect if they fire from cover at unsuspecting foes.
It does make sense its just that I assumed there was a more valid reason other than it wouldn't be fair since this would also open this up to asking why can't a mage do the same when they get surprise since all games I've played in seem to suggest they can only cast one spell per round.
Anyway I'll agree to leave this alone although I am interested if there's a valid reason for there not being any ranged OA's.
So that fighter jumps from behind cover surprising his foes and he pulls an attack on two of them before they can react unless he/she has combat reflexes of course.A melee fighter DO NOT have a OOC if he surprises someone !
OOC are only provoked by an action of your adversary
Hold on I have always thought attacks of opportunity not only happened when a foe say loses their weapon and is forced to fight with no weapon against an armed opponent but also when said enemy surprised them before they can defend themselves... are there any other actions that you see provoke an AOO other than say a spellcaster who fails their defensive spellcasting check?
|
As I understand it (and I am fairly new to the 3.5+ rules), an attack of opportunity is an extra attack that you get in addition to your normal actions for that round. So, hopeless, are you saying that an archer would be able to get off two ranged attacks a round against somebody approaching them from a distance? As I understand it, that's not how the rule works.
As I understand it (and I am fairly new to the 3.5+ rules), an attack of opportunity is an extra attack that you get in addition to your normal actions for that round. So, hopeless, are you saying that an archer would be able to get off two ranged attacks a round against somebody approaching them from a distance? As I understand it, that's not how the rule works.
Sorry misread that my comment was that the archer unless they had combat reflexes would get an extra attack not two the other listed was intended as the archer's normal attack for the round (not including the rapid shot feat).
Thats why I was wondering why there wasn't a reason behind there being no ranged AOO.
In the open that archer should get an extra attack because his foes are charging or are unaware and haven't taken cover as a result, in a dungeon however I'd agree it would be hard for the same thing to work but I have been rereading the pathfinder beta and it just lists an AOO as melee only which doesn't ring true to me but I'll keep to that line since when I pointed it out the response made me realise that not only would that apply to enemies and you wouldn't be aware of this as it is purposely not listed as possible only that it applies to melee attacks but that would also leave it open for spellcasters' too and I think I really need to find a more plausible reason for this before messing around any further with that particular can of worms.
Please respond if you can give me a better reason for its exclusion.
|
|
I think one problem with ranged attacks of opportunity is that ranged attacks threaten so many squares. Imaging you cast a spell, which provokes an attack of opportunity. Then every enemy with a ranged weapon out that is in range of you gets a free shot. That would be pretty darn harsh on spellcasters when they are facing enemies with ranged attacks. I don't think its a workable mechanic; it would completely disrupt the balance of combat.
Also firing a ranged weapon itself provokes an attack of opportunity, so imagine 10 archers facing 10 archers. The first one shoots, which results in 10 free shots at him from the other side. Does this seem right?
I think one problem with ranged attacks of opportunity is that ranged attacks threaten so many squares. Imaging you cast a spell, which provokes an attack of opportunity. Then every enemy with a ranged weapon out that is in range of you gets a free shot. That would be pretty darn harsh on spellcasters when they are facing enemies with ranged attacks. I don't think its a workable mechanic; it would completely disrupt the balance of combat.
Also firing a ranged weapon itself provokes an attack of opportunity, so imagine 10 archers facing 10 archers. The first one shoots, which results in 10 free shots at him from the other side. Does this seem right?
It also says to avoid taking an AOO you can just move 5' say taking cover after moving forward a bit to avoid being shot at, those archers since they're firing at each other would have better idea at making sure they don't suffer the same effect but I do agree it does make a better case for why there's no ranged AOO.
Its probably for the best then, still it also stops spellcasters' having the same capability say for example a sorceror dropping a fireball on two targets within 20' of each other simple because of a Ranged AOO.
Anyway thanks for the reply.
I disagree with you Herve/Robin, from what I see on the map, our best bet would be to group After the turn so we can see straight down the tunnel.
But I'm willing to go with the majority...any other opinions anyone?
Willy's not much for tactics. The only one he knows is run as fast as he can and hit it really hard.
Hopeless , how large is this tunnel ?
Ok, this is what I'm thinking for positions:
Herve H4
Bogorin I5
Willy I4
This will allow all three of them to hit the Ogre or the wolf when they come at us and only one of them should be able to hit us at a time (although with the Ogre's reach, that may not work)
Tenna could be at K2 so she has a straight shot at the Ogre and as I think Talden has a range weapon as well perhaps he should be guarding the rear?
What think ya all?
Yeah! say Willy.
On it!
Just wanted to assure you I'm still paying attention. I'm just waiting for my turn. ;)
Oh gods, Tenna's going to have a phobia of wolves now if that wolf makes it past Talden and Bogo!
Ready to post as soon as it does!
Hey Val, Tenna is showing as Level 1...is that right for us? ie we've gone up two levels from 0 so now we're at level one? (or, well, NOW at level 2 I guess?)
Hey Val, Tenna is showing as Level 1...is that right for us? ie we've gone up two levels from 0 so now we're at level one? (or, well, NOW at level 2 I guess?)
Yes you are however didn't notice about Tenna, thought I had to change Brallin but he had already updated his druid.
Hey Bogo, where ya at?
Oh wow...sorry about that! I'm fixing it ASAP!
Good chance I may have missed something... so if you (Hopeless...or anyone else?) feels like looking over Bogorin 3.1 please feel free : )
I'm updated now too. Please let me know if I messed something up.
I tried to find Careful Aiming in the Beta like forever, but I never did see it. It's listed under the ranger's combat feat section...
Wait a minute, when did we level? Should Willy be Commoner 1/Barbarian 2?
Hopeless
Well, was there any specific reason for Bogo catching Caylen's attention? The domain's I went with are Torag's...I'd have to change them if I went with someone else. If you can say without giving away too much, will it make any difference game-wise? Will Boggo Know who gave him the strength surge? Cuz at the moment he'll be assuming it's Torag.
Also, I'll be going with Cleric from now on.
Wait a minute, when did we level? Should Willy be Commoner 1/Barbarian 2?
Not yet they levelled because of the fight with the dire wolf but given what you're currently fighting you should be joining them shortly the way things have been rolling!
Hopeless
** spoiler omitted **
Bogorin#1:
Bogorin#2:
Good chance I may have missed something... so if you (Hopeless...or anyone else?) feels like looking over Bogorin 3.1 please feel free : )
You've only spent 7 skill points out of 9, I assumed you were a 2nd level warrior and 1st level cleric not a Warrior/Fighter/Cleric of 1st level?
If you went with Warrior/Cleric 2nd/1st it would mean both Knowledge/Dungeoneering and /Engineering aren't class skills.
(Just realised Power Attack would be your newest feat)
Since npc classes don't count for multiclassing it shouldn't effect things but dwarves have to choose between fighter and cleric for their favoured class they don't get both unfortunately
I'm updated now too. Please let me know if I messed something up.
I tried to find Careful Aiming in the Beta like forever, but I never did see it. It's listed under the ranger's combat feat section...
I suspect it was renamed Deadly Aim given its the archer equivalent of power attack, I believe you've still to roll another d10 for hp and 2 speare skill ranks unless your favoured class bonus was for extra skill ranks instead of hp?
Oh and you saves I think should be +4 for fortitude, +8 for reflex and +2 for will, I didn't realise you wasn't wearing armour.
Hey, did we all go up a level? Is Talden supposed to be Warrior/Ranger 1/2 now?
Hey, did we all go up a level? Is Talden supposed to be Warrior/Ranger 1/2 now?
Yes, I believe he took the alternative class version of ranger didn't he?
Hopeless
** spoiler omitted **Bogorin#1:
** spoiler omitted **Bogorin#2:
** spoiler omitted **
Boggo hasn't told me all the details of his past yet, but I figured it's something that will come out with time. If that works for you? And since I already spent the time choosing, I'll stick with what's he's got. Though if/when he finds out who gave him the boost he may spend some special time in homage to Cayden (of course he may just get drunk Anyway ;-) .
Oh, and the wood shattering was a result of the Domain Power the Artifice Domain gives btw.
He is a Warrior2/Cleric1 (The Warrior2 has been there for a while now)
If there's still something messed up, please let me know. I don't understand why those two knowledge skills are not class skills anymore though? It says they are in Pathfinder Beta I think?
I'm updated now too. Please let me know if I messed something up.
I tried to find Careful Aiming in the Beta like forever, but I never did see it. It's listed under the ranger's combat feat section...
I suspect it was renamed Deadly Aim given its the archer equivalent of power attack, I believe you've still to roll another d10 for hp and 2 speare skill ranks unless your favoured class bonus was for extra skill ranks instead of hp?
Oh and you saves I think should be +4 for fortitude, +8 for reflex and +2 for will, I didn't realise you wasn't wearing armour.
Oh, forgot all about the bonus hp/skill points. I'll take 2 hp then. It's the first time I've ever taken them over skill points I think.
My current hp are actually after two rolls(average d10 + CON both times), but if you need it done again through Invisible Castle, I can get it done.
Thanks for the catch on the Fort and Will saves. I really wasn't sure about the Reflex save, since I've never multiclassed before. I thought that the +2 reflex from ranger would replace the +2 reflex I had as a commoner(with the bonus you gave me), I didn't think it would stack. If that's how it works, I'll fix it right now.
Yep. No armor. Too poor! :)
Wow I was so nervous about that shot. :) I almost used Deadly Aim but chickened out.
Hey, did we all go up a level? Is Talden supposed to be Warrior/Ranger 1/2 now?Yes, I believe he took the alternative class version of ranger didn't he?
Excellent! Yes, I took the wildshape class variant which instead of combat style feats Talden gets Fast Movement and Wildshape. The only problem is that it doesn't specify which it gets at which level. My plan was to take Fast Movement at 2nd level, Wildshape (small animal) at 6th, Wildshape (medium animal) at 10th, and Wildshape (large animal) at 14th if that is cool.
Alright, Talden is up to date. I took Fast Movement instead of my combat school and I also took +1 ranks (Knowledge: Dungeoneering) as my favored class bonus.
Boggo hasn't told me all the details of his past yet, but I figured it's something that will come out with time. If that works for you? And since I already spent the time choosing, I'll stick with what's he's got. Though if/when he finds out who gave him the boost he may spend some special time in homage to Cayden (of course he may just get drunk Anyway ;-) .
Oh, and the wood shattering was a result of the Domain Power the Artifice Domain gives btw.
I actually thought all that did was repair objects, thanks for that update.
Only fighters get those knowledge skills unfortunately so all it would mean is that they don't get that +3 bonus for being class skills.
Hopeless, how do you want us to do the next hit die?
You can either roll it or half the die value and add 1 for example say you're rolling a d6 halved its a 3 with the +1 for 4 extra hp.
Hopeless, how do you want us to do the next hit die?You can either roll it or half the die value and add 1 for example say you're rolling a d6 halved its a 3 with the +1 for 4 extra hp.
That's how I did mine, half ranger hit die + CON + extra hit points for human in favored class.
Hopeless, Willy is updated to commoner 1/barbarian 2. I used the Barbarian rules in the Beta book, not the update posted by Jason on the boards.
Okay, wasn't even aware of the updated version so thanks for that!
Updated
Ok, I'm really confused. Bogorin FOUND the secret door and is standing right in front of it. How did Herve see something that Bogo didn't and where did Old Carter and this other dwarf and the ghoul come from as they should all be pretty much right on top of where Bogo is standing??
Ok, I'm really confused. Bogorin FOUND the secret door and is standing right in front of it. How did Herve see something that Bogo didn't and where did Old Carter and this other dwarf and the ghoul come from as they should all be pretty much right on top of where Bogo is standing??
Sorry for the delay in responding below should be the map showing both the section Bogorin is in but also the half Herve is investigating, the upper half is where the Ogre was living and the curtained section where Bogorin was investigating is where his secret door was found but Herve stationed back between the Ogre's Lair and the storeroom located to the south where he heard the noise and investigating ssaw essentially whats marked there hope that clears this up.
Ah, ok I see the mix-up. I had originally said that Bogo went into the opposite room from Tenna. I guess the fact that there's secret doors in each just confused it more :P
But oh well, all good :)
Hey Hopeless, I was just adding the Party Loot to Boggo's sheet. So far I have:
Amythyst 100gp
Onyx 35gp
Ring of Hide from Undead ?gp
Am I missing anything else that we've got since we began? I guess there was some healing potions and other stuff?
Hey Hopeless, I was just adding the Party Loot to Boggo's sheet. So far I have:
Amythyst 100gp
Onyx 35gp
Ring of Hide from Undead ?gpAm I missing anything else that we've got since we began? I guess there was some healing potions and other stuff?
By my count you started off with 3 vials of holy water, 2 herbal balls, a wallet of four herbal cures from Nagira.
The Ogre Bane Arrow from Old Carter still in the ogre, Old Carter's ring that was on the hobgoblin handler's body, the pouch of 4 chelish platinum pieces and 2 gems that you mentioned.
By now you probably have seen the Ogre's chest full of silver on your way our of the Ogre's lair.
Talden revealed the four clay pots filled with a tisane of some kind probably a hobgoblin version of a herbal potion.
Unless the others have said anything you'd only know about the Ogre's Javellin that Willy poked at, the Leonine set of bracers off of the dire wolf and of course Willy's new studded leather armour.
Ok great thanks!
Being the dwarf, I guess it's up to me to keep track of the loot? ;-)
Unless anyone else is volunteering? :P
I'll add it to my sheet for all to see...