Paladins' in 4e


4th Edition


Anyone know what damage the Pain of Death daily power a Paladin can use does?

It doesn't say radiant it simply says how much damage it does... anyone know what type of damage it is?


If it doesn't specify a type of damage, it is just basic damage.


Yeah, if no damage type is listed, it is untyped damage - essentially, just physical injury. Easy to picture when delivered by a sword, less so with a power like this - but just picture it as your enemy being wracked by pains by the attack. (Similar to how the old Inflict spells didn't do typed damage - they just caused wounds to be inflicted upon those hit by the spell. This would be much the same, one imagines.)


Matthew Koelbl wrote:
Yeah, if no damage type is listed, it is untyped damage - essentially, just physical injury. Easy to picture when delivered by a sword, less so with a power like this - but just picture it as your enemy being wracked by pains by the attack. (Similar to how the old Inflict spells didn't do typed damage - they just caused wounds to be inflicted upon those hit by the spell. This would be much the same, one imagines.)

It just seems strange that with all of the rrata they couldn't have just explained this particular power or even included an explanation like those given here.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As the others said it's untyped damage. Playing a radiant paladin myself in another game. Difficult to do few of the paladins powers deal radiant damage. Thank goodness for multi-classing and warlocks.


Lazaro wrote:
As the others said it's untyped damage. Playing a radiant paladin myself in another game. Difficult to do few of the paladins powers deal radiant damage. Thank goodness for multi-classing and warlocks.

GRINS and half elf Paladins who just happen to have eyebite as a dilettante provided encounter power!

Am wondering about picking up a multiclass feat in swordmage though, they do look very nice!

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

the swordmage is fun. Most fun I've had with a character so far...Though I really would like to give the barbarian a spin.

Alot of the swordmage power need INT though. Heck there's even a feat in FRPG that let's us use our INT, instead of STR for our basic melee attakcks.

What would be funny though, is since it looks like your pally has a good STR, is to go barbarian. From the .pdf all of the Rageblood Barbarian's powers are STR reliant. That or take up fighter or warlord.

Personally if I do multiclass it's either as a wizard, or...


Lazaro wrote:

the swordmage is fun. Most fun I've had with a character so far...Though I really would like to give the barbarian a spin.

Alot of the swordmage power need INT though. Heck there's even a feat in FRPG that let's us use our INT, instead of STR for our basic melee attakcks.

What would be funny though, is since it looks like your pally has a good STR, is to go barbarian. From the .pdf all of the Rageblood Barbarian's powers are STR reliant. That or take up fighter or warlord.

Personally if I do multiclass it's either as a wizard, or...

So literally holy rage...

Must have a read through about that article on the barbarian, question is these days what can cause a paladin to fall?
Tried reading that article about the cruel paladin who went taunted by a villain whose tied up and being led by his horse got off his horse and cut the tendons of the villains legs allowing him to be dragged for the next two days it took for the villain to die... had to give up after page 3 or 4 but it did raise the interesting point as to what would cause a paladin to fall...
Sighs at least my paladin is unaligned.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
hopeless wrote:
Lazaro wrote:

the swordmage is fun. Most fun I've had with a character so far...Though I really would like to give the barbarian a spin.

Alot of the swordmage power need INT though. Heck there's even a feat in FRPG that let's us use our INT, instead of STR for our basic melee attakcks.

What would be funny though, is since it looks like your pally has a good STR, is to go barbarian. From the .pdf all of the Rageblood Barbarian's powers are STR reliant. That or take up fighter or warlord.

Personally if I do multiclass it's either as a wizard, or...

So literally holy rage...

Must have a read through about that article on the barbarian, question is these days what can cause a paladin to fall?
Tried reading that article about the cruel paladin who went taunted by a villain whose tied up and being led by his horse got off his horse and cut the tendons of the villains legs allowing him to be dragged for the next two days it took for the villain to die... had to give up after page 3 or 4 but it did raise the interesting point as to what would cause a paladin to fall...
Sighs at least my paladin is unaligned.

Really, if you by RAW, nothing causes a paladin to fall anymore. Once a pally, always a pally. The worst is your alignment shifts. Of course a DM can/may rule otherwise.


Lazaro wrote:
hopeless wrote:


Must have a read through about that article on the barbarian, question is these days what can cause a paladin to fall?
Tried reading that article about the cruel paladin who went taunted by a villain whose tied up and being led by his horse got off his horse and cut the tendons of the villains legs allowing him to be dragged for the next two days it took for the villain to die... had to give up after page 3 or 4 but it did raise the interesting point as to what would cause a paladin to fall...
Sighs at least my paladin is unaligned.

Really, if you by RAW, nothing causes a paladin to fall anymore. Once a pally, always a pally. The worst is your alignment shifts. Of course a DM can/may rule otherwise.

I've always been of the opinion that a paladin should be following a particular religious doctrine rather than sticking to an alignment - though I'm not a fan of alignment in general. I'd suggest that what punishes a paladin from breaking the code is disapproval from the rest of the church, not being able to get any support from them, and in extreme cases being hunted down as a heretic.


If you read the stuff, you see that paladins are invested with divine power by those with divine power (admittedly its weak sauce but stick with me)

No Paladin's Never Fall, But they sure as hell can piss off their order.

Who can then send out other paladins to seize the offending paladin.

Think less Joan of Arc, more a policer officer trusted by the state with a gun. Does the gun stop working because the police officer is doing bad things? No, but if the agency catches wind of it the officer is going to have a hard time keeping his gun.


Logos wrote:

If you read the stuff, you see that paladins are invested with divine power by those with divine power (admittedly its weak sauce but stick with me)

No Paladin's Never Fall, But they sure as hell can piss off their order.

Who can then send out other paladins to seize the offending paladin.

Think less Joan of Arc, more a policer officer trusted by the state with a gun. Does the gun stop working because the police officer is doing bad things? No, but if the agency catches wind of it the officer is going to have a hard time keeping his gun.

Thats my take as well. Essentially, like so much else in 4E, its really DMs call on how this is going to work. Certainly one can have strong orders that chastise Paladins that use their magic for things that go against their Gods will or, as I do in my game, its possible for Paladins to have Wildly differing views of what their Gods will means. Individual Paladins might hunt down members of their own order and put them to the sword for 'heresy'. I'll likely even have something of a spread were some churches have stronger orders and make more of a point of hunting down errant paladins and such while others are just not centralized enough to do this and its up to the individuals in the Church to decide whether some one needs to be stopped from spreading 'heresy' or not.


Logos wrote:

If you read the stuff, you see that paladins are invested with divine power by those with divine power (admittedly its weak sauce but stick with me)

No Paladin's Never Fall, But they sure as hell can piss off their order.

Who can then send out other paladins to seize the offending paladin.

Think less Joan of Arc, more a policer officer trusted by the state with a gun. Does the gun stop working because the police officer is doing bad things? No, but if the agency catches wind of it the officer is going to have a hard time keeping his gun.

Personally I still go with the Fallen style of Paladins and he the PC started acting contrary to his calling I'd remove some of his powers initially and if he continued he'd lose more till he atoned.

If he failed to atone then he'd have to cross class or drop the class altogether and instead to learn fighter Martial Exploits.


I was thinking more if they start doing contrary to their patron deity that in truth they were following a different deity to the one they thought they were following!

Also I intend to remove the Good and Evil part from the LG and CE alignments since I have seen the kind of stupidity certain players pull particularly with LG and don't see why they kept LG and CE since Lawful and Chaotic used instead allows for some better explanation for their behaviour.

For example I have seen a player run a Paladin of Hieronimous as a fanatic who sees no reason why he can't kill any evil foe he has detected even captives even though he wasn't the one who captured them.

A Lawful paladin doesn't need to be either good nor evil there's nothing to stop them doing good or evil except that it must never dishonour their faith and their patron deity however has the say so as to whom is a paladin of their faith so I can see ways of getting across whats really important to a paladin, its the player who needs to understand and convey what they consider important because I can also see paladins who change deities simply because one is too good, one is too evil or even mercenary a common goal of adventurer's so there's a whole new ballpark to consider when you look at what can harm a paladin's perceived faith.

The Exchange

Logos wrote:
Think less Joan of Arc, more a policer officer trusted by the state with a gun. Does the gun stop working because the police officer is doing bad things? No, but if the agency catches wind of it the officer is going to have a hard time keeping his gun.

This is one of the problems with alignment as a mechanic. If alignment is "detectable" then religions cannot rot from the inside. That removes a huge theme from the story telling arsenal. As a huge fan of WFRP I love witch hunters and inquisitors. I love the idea of secret societies and subterfuge. If every paladin can walk down the street and ping for evil then how would the insidious nature of evil ever drive a story arc.


crosswiredmind wrote:
Logos wrote:
Think less Joan of Arc, more a policer officer trusted by the state with a gun. Does the gun stop working because the police officer is doing bad things? No, but if the agency catches wind of it the officer is going to have a hard time keeping his gun.
This is one of the problems with alignment as a mechanic. If alignment is "detectable" then religions cannot rot from the inside. That removes a huge theme from the story telling arsenal. As a huge fan of WFRP I love witch hunters and inquisitors. I love the idea of secret societies and subterfuge. If every paladin can walk down the street and ping for evil then how would the insidious nature of evil ever drive a story arc.

Nondetection effects, which are apparently standard issue for villains.

The Exchange

Antioch wrote:
Nondetection effects, which are apparently standard issue for villains.

That's fine for a single infiltrator but the evil guy will need to gather followers and there will not be enough non-detection mojo to go around.


crosswiredmind wrote:
Antioch wrote:
Nondetection effects, which are apparently standard issue for villains.
That's fine for a single infiltrator but the evil guy will need to gather followers and there will not be enough non-detection mojo to go around.

I wasnt being serious, but it seems like anytime there is a long-term evil guy that they have some kind of alignment-concealing effect/item just to avoid "paladin pinging".

Without the ability to immediately detect everyone's morals and ethics, this is much easier to do.


Antioch wrote:
crosswiredmind wrote:
Antioch wrote:
Nondetection effects, which are apparently standard issue for villains.
That's fine for a single infiltrator but the evil guy will need to gather followers and there will not be enough non-detection mojo to go around.

I wasnt being serious, but it seems like anytime there is a long-term evil guy that they have some kind of alignment-concealing effect/item just to avoid "paladin pinging".

Without the ability to immediately detect everyone's morals and ethics, this is much easier to do.

And then there's Mordenkainen's fantastic adventure where the vampire was Neutral aligned so didn't register!

Do I need to put a spoiler there?

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