Gurubabaramalamaswami |
So....what exactly was the problem here? Is this just a general lament that the War domain no longer gives free weapon proficiency (since it no longer needs to since the cleric description makes it clear that you are automatically proficient with your deity's favored weapon).
Luck bonus? Don't have the Beta in front of me but are you confusing Divine Power (which increases BAB and Strength) with Divine Favor (which does indeed bestow a luck bonus)?
hogarth |
Luck bonus? Don't have the Beta in front of me but are you confusing Divine Power (which increases BAB and Strength) with Divine Favor (which does indeed bestow a luck bonus)?
That's exactly the "problem" -- Divine Power doesn't increase BAB now (or a Str bonus, for that matter), it gives a luck bonus instead. Thus it doesn't stack with Divine Favor, Prayer, et al.
tergiver |
Divine Power is luck now, which I hadn't noticed, so it wouldn't stack with Divine Favor. Hm. In my 3.x game, I house ruled that the Divine Power bonuses were competence bonuses.
I'd like to see sacred and profane bonuses go completely away. It was a cute idea too late in the process to be well integrated, and having an entirely different bonus category means more christmas tree effect. If prayer doesn't grant sacred/profane bonuses, nothing should.
hogarth |
Whoa! STuck in the Beta and gave it a quick looksee and as some posters have just pointed out Divine Power has in fact been nerfed to hell and back.
I love 3.5 Divine Power and I can assure you I will not be using the Beta version now or ever.
That's your right. But some people feel that 3.5 Divine Power sort of makes the core melee classes obsolete, I gather.
This change was actually in the Alpha as well.
S W |
Melee classes need a major overhaul. The Divine Power thing was just for illustrative purposes. Now clerics will just defend themselves with spells, summons and SoD effects, like they would have done anyway. Clerics don't rely on divine power; it's not the optimal choice for magical combat. It was just mentioned in other threads to show that the touted full BAB wasn't enough to base a class on by itself.
Gurubabaramalamaswami |
I've got a cleric in my game that regularly stacks Divine Favor, Divine Power, and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful and I...uh...I mean the NPCs still regularly kick his ass all over the battlemat.
Can't see what the fuss is about. Divine Power as per 3.5 is okeydokey with this DM. This is a change that has nothing to do with backwards compatibility.
Shisumo |
It was just mentioned in other threads to show that the touted full BAB wasn't enough to base a class on by itself.
That's not really how it tends to get mentioned in 3.5 discussions of cleics. It's more like, "There's a 4th level spell that means a cleric can do the fighter's job better than the fighter can," which is a bit more than just "a full BAB isn't a class."
KaeYoss |
I like the new divine power. The old one did have some issues:
hogarth |
Melee classes need a major overhaul. The Divine Power thing was just for illustrative purposes. Now clerics will just defend themselves with spells, summons and SoD effects, like they would have done anyway.
Yes...but various SoD effects have been nerfed as well. You certainly can't say that clerical spells have gotten an overall power boost. If the Pathfinder RPG nerfs every spell that is used for "illustrative purposes" (e.g. Glitterdust, Divine Power, Gate [hopefully]), then that's certainly sending some kind of message, isn't it?
Personally, I didn't have a problem with the old version of Divine Power. And I don't have a problem with the new version of Divine Power either.
James Jacobs Creative Director |
The beta's divine power was indeed nerfed. We're hoping to keep it a viable spell, but at the same point the 3.5 version was WAY too potent. It basically made clerics into fighters, but didn't keep them from doing cleric stuff. By comparasion, check out the 3.5's transformation spell; it buffs you up in a similar way, but takes away your spellcasting power while it's active. And it's 2 levels higher than divine power too.
That said... it's certainly possible we went too far with the nerfing. It's CERTAINLY one of the spells we'll be paying a fair amount of attention to before nailing it down.
KaeYoss |
That said... it's certainly possible we went too far with the nerfing.
I'm not sure, it's still decent: The +1/3 bonus is as good as the increased BAB (sometimes better), and though the strength bonus isn't there any more, you can remedy that with bull's strength or an item. And unless you have access to haste or boots of speed, the extra attack from haste is better than the extra attack from a higher BAB - and now you always get the extra attack.
Sure, the lack of stacking with divine favour and haste isn't nice, but I'd say it was too nice before.
Suzaku |
By level 7 you'll already get access to haste from the wizard/sorc and situations where you're going to use divine power the wizard/sorc would likely plop it down for you and group. And now lets compare Haste and Divine Power
1 Round/level
1 Bonus to Ref, Attk and AC and stacks with various or all other buffs.
+30 ft movement to all speeds.
1 extra attack when making a full attack.
Friend or Foe detectable AoE
and 3rd level slot.
1 round/level
1 luck bonus to attack and dmg /3 levels which doesn't stack with most of your buffs.
No movement increase, but strength check bonus that you will likely never use except for once in a blue moon.
1 extra attack when making full attack
Personal buff only
and 4th level slot.
Even if Haste was a 4th level spell slot it still blows Divine Power out of the water due to the fact it's FoF detectable AoE.
Then there is this with Clerics
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/general/why ArePeopleReluctantToPlayClerics&page=1