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I have three boys, ages 10, 8, and 5. I am planning on starting them off in Star Wars Saga Edition as an introduction to gaming. Do you think this is a good age, or are some of my kids still too young in your opinion?
Good question, David. As with most parental issues, a big part of this answer will be "it depends on your kids." It also relies on shaping your own expectations for how the game will proceed.
I'd say your 10-year-old is probably ready for a Star Wars game, and your 8-year-old may be, as well. Just keep in mind that heavy math may not go a quickly (most kids can't do as many calculations in their heads) and stick to the "black-and-white" morality situations that they can understand. Star Wars is pretty good about allowing GMs to present the "obviously evil villain," so it's a good choice there, as well.
Now, for the five-year-old:
I have six-year-old twin daughters and am anxious to get them into RPGs. I did some looking around and purchased the PDF version of "Faery's Tale Deluxe" from Firefly Games. It's a rules-light system about something that they could wrap their minds around.
We've only played once, but we had a really good time. I learned a lot about what's appropriate for them during that session.
First, I started off with BIG descriptions. Knowing that they were not going to be drawn in by long monologues detailing elaborate vistas, I stuck with short, simple adjectives and used a lot of stereotypical character voices. (This was one reason Faery's Tale was such a good choice. "Everyone" knows that witches have scratchy, old woman's voices and giants have big voices and talk very slowly.)
The main thing is that, even with a "light" rules system, it was often more than they were ready for. They wanted to hear about the story, not roll dice. They also weren't interested in what they couldn't do. Faery's Tale is geared toward allowing players to succeed at most anything, as long as they can describe it and have the magic reserves left to do the miraculous things.
In the end, we all had a lot of fun. We played for almost an hour and a half. I thought that was great, since the only other thing that has held their attention for such a long time was the television. However, the girls weren't really interested in rolling dice or counting points of "essence." They wanted to tell the story and keep it moving forward.
For the time-being, I have thrown out the rules system and started doing interactive storytelling with them, instead. Just like a GM, I provide a framework for the story and they fill in details and actions about what they will do next. They love it and are unconsciously learning the basics of roleplaying. As they get older, and can enjoy games with more structure, I'll slowly reintroduce the dice and other RPG paraphernalia until we can run full-scale Pathfinder Society Scenarios. ;)
Most importantly, the advice I would give is to curb your own expectations. Even more than adult players, kids will try to take a story in a direction completely different from what you intended. Try starting out with very straightforward missions and consider using plotlines they will be familiar with (rescue the princess, anyone?). Meanwhile, be ready to improvise almost everything. Kids can be herded a little, but if you try to force them to stick to a storyline, they're going to rebel.
So...all that blabbering really boils down to the idea that your 5-year-old is probably ready for the storytelling aspect of RPGs, but may not be ready for the rules.
With that age spread sitting at the table at the same time, you're going to have to find a balance between the big, storybook style descriptions that keep your youngest interested and the (slightly) more sophisticated elements that will draw in the older kids.
A better option may be to run different games for the older kids, and then do some interactive storytelling just for the youngest (the older kids can play, too, if they want), with the promise that he'll be able to play in the other game when he gets older.
I strongly encourage getting your kids involved as soon as you can. I can see a huge difference between my girls and some of their friends in their creative thinking and improvisational skills (although some of that is just natural talent). It's really good for their verbal communication skill development.
I hope at least some of that rambling helps. I'd be interested in hearing how things go for you guys. Good luck!
Excellent post. I tend to agree with the advice that the older two are probably ready for a fairly light system with broad themes. I would have started to play BECMI when I was 8 so its a reasonable age to begin. That said themes were not really complex and I was not playing with an adult - I was playing with other 8 and 9 year olds, that sort of automatically puts everyone on the same wave length.
Considering that I started with the D&D blue box at the age of 10, and I've always described role-playing games to the uninitiated as "let's pretend" for adults, I'm thinking that it should be easy to get kids to adjust to playing a game.
The five year old might have trouble following all the rules, but since it will be a kids' game, it shouldn't be hard to adjust to their play style and at the same time get them used to focusing imagination through a system of rules.
Director of Brand Strategy
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Since they make Cthulhu plushies, I say birth, but many would disagree with me. This might be why no one will let me close to their spawn, er, I mean, children.
Seriously though, I think if you are the one running the game and you are patient with younger kids who might struggle with the math or attention-span requirements of the game, you can get anyone of any age into pretending fun things and sticking to some agreed upon rules. Your 5-y/o might be too young for an adult game, but I play with some guy who have played with their 5/6 y/o's but they do so in a highly abstracted context, where they essentially tell a collaborative story and roll some dice. One had a lot of trouble getting his son to accept that he had failed at something because of the dice roll and ended up with some thrown minis and such, but every kid is different. I think you should be fine with an 8 & 10 y/o. Best of luck!
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I had my first session yesterday, and my biggest issues were getting the kids to realize that blasting everything in sight was not a good plan, and dealing with my three year old who kept wanting her turn too. Meanwhile my two year old got a hold of my 4th edition PHB and spent the evening looking through it.
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This past Saturday, I ran a game for my 7-year old son and one his friends from school. I was amused at some of the interesting choices they made.
My son chose to play a lawful good human monk.
His friend decided to play a halfling paladin.
They had a great time making their characters: rolling stats, buying equipment, coming up with names, every step - which frankly shocked me; I figured they wouldn't have the attention span for it.
I took them through the Secret of Whiterock adventure, and again I was impressed at how the two genuinely role-played. They had in- character conversations about everything that was going on.
They got excited during the battles, cheering when they killed the monsters, and looking concerned when one of their characters got wounded.
I wish I had videotaped it. It would be up on YouTube right now.
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That's great news, David! I'm glad things worked out so well.
As for blasting everything...it sounds to me like they'er "100% boy."
I recall my first AD&D experience at age 14 or so, in which our "heroes" charged blindly into a skeleton-infested dungeon shouting "RECON!!!" for no apparent reason. We rolled up new characters a few rounds later.... ;)
Great news on your game, too, Cuchulainn.
All of these parental success stories are inspiring me to let the girls have another go at Faery's Tale...maybe this coming weekend.
My oldest boy will be seven soon. He has been playing a real basic version of D&D Miniatures and Star Wars Minatures with me. Recently he started playing Pokemon cards. I think he will be at least 9 or 10 before he is ready for RPG.
You are the lucky ones. But since English is not my (and my family's) native language, I have to wait much longer to play D&D with my daughter. She is nine and learning English now. Luckily she is a fast learner.
There are not many Dutch RPG's. I think there are none on the market at the moment.
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I have three boys, ages 10, 8, and 5. I am planning on starting them off in Star Wars Saga Edition as an introduction to gaming. Do you think this is a good age, or are some of my kids still too young in your opinion?
I am running a 4E game with a table of kids from 7 to 11. I detail this over in the 4E forum under the tag "Judge for Kids."
It has been a great and wonderful experience for all of us. I think that kids can start playing at home as soon as they have some math skills as well as basic literacy. Your five year old may need a ton of TLC from you, but this is really up to you as a parent.
We typically have a couple of the younger kids in the neighborhood watching the game, and they enjoy that.
It's a great time. However, it's a different game. Be prepared for that. The kids do not understand the conventions of play, and will need coaching on that as much as the ruels.
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My oldest boy will be seven soon. He has been playing a real basic version of D&D Miniatures and Star Wars Minatures with me. Recently he started playing Pokemon cards. I think he will be at least 9 or 10 before he is ready for RPG.
Yeah, that's how I started out as well. They have been playing Star Wars minitures since the five year old was three, so that has helped a lot. His brothers have always been helping him read the cards for the minis, so it was an easy step to have them help him read his character sheet.
I would say a good time to introduce your children to role playing games is when they start showing interest.
I also recommend a rules light game until they are ready/want something with more crunch. I think PDQ makes an excellent introductory system, even better than Faery's Tale. Sorcerer of Zo uses the PDQ framework if you do not want to use a completely free game.
I have six-year-old twin daughters and am anxious to get them into RPGs. I did some looking around and purchased the PDF version of "Faery's Tale Deluxe" from Firefly Games. It's a rules-light system about something that they could wrap their minds around.
Paris, are you aware of the FT Yahoo Group. You should share your experiences there if you haven't already.
I have a nine-year-old daughter and a six-year-old son. I introduced them to FT this last Easter with a number of their friends. The kids really "got" it for the most part. I was extremely impressed by my then 5-year-old son's intuitive grasp of the mechanics and rules -- he doesn't yet read. And he came up with the most creative solutions to the problems presented.
Over the summer my daughter created an elven ranger for 3.5e. She was really enthused about it and go to play at a recent gaming convention. She had a blast. As I didn't really have a scenario prepared I used the Once Upon A Time storytelling cards to assist with game play and the plot. They were a very big hit and gave her a chance to focus on the story first and the game mechanics second. She had a very good time and is anxious to do it again.
I don't think there is a set rule as to when you should introduce your children to gaming. For something that is rules light it can be much earlier. I've engaged in cooperative storytelling with my kids for as long as I can remember -- most of the time when I'm just telling them storys (rather than reading to them) they can interact with the characters and advise them or give them direction. For something like D&D, I think reading and writing are important skills to have mastered first -- so that sort of sets a minimum bar there. Certainly I've been playing since I was 11 or so (over 30 years ago) and I taught my 8-year-old sister to play.
If you show your kids that what you are doing is a fun activity and can make it a safe place for them to have fun (as well as to experiment and fail) you will find that your kids respond positively.
CJ
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Paris, are you aware of the FT Yahoo Group. You should share your experiences there if you haven't already.
Yep! In fact, I'm a member already. I'm known as niveria2000, there. I've already blabbed extensively about our first gaming experience both on these boards (here) and on the FT Group. ;)
I think your take on the right time for D&D is pretty good. In the meantime, there are definitely options out there for systems to use. Paizo offers both the print copy of Faery's Tale Deluxe and the PDF of Faery's Tale is available, here, too. I've not heard of PDQ, but I'm definitely going to look into it.
I wish I had started the interactive storytelling a bit earlier. I finally had to get over my fears that my kids wouldn't like my ideas (it's strange to think that my 5 year olds would judge me, but as I've said, I'm kind of a perfectionist). Anyway, once I let go of the misconception that I had to be able to create the "perfect" story and gave them the opportunity to help, we had a lot of fun.
As a follow-up, I mentioned to my daughters last night that we might be able to play the "Faery game" again this weekend...and they sounded really excited...which of course got me excited, too! [ooc]GRINS FOOLISHLY[/url]
I myself started when I was nine. I saw some other kids play at school and was totally fascinated by what they were doing. So I used my paper route money to buy myself D&D adventure B1:In Search of the Unknown, a d4 and a d10 in that same week.
I had no clue how to play, but I devoured that book in a matter of hours. I then got a few kids from my neighborhood in my kitchen and we played. It was mostly story-driven, with a few vague rolls here and there to find out if a cetain action was successful or not. We had a lot of fun.
It also changed my life forever.
Ultradan
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I myself started when I was nine. I saw some other kids play at school and was totally fascinated by what they were doing. So I used my paper route money to buy myself D&D adventure B1:In Search of the Unknown, a d4 and a d10 in that same week.
I had no clue how to play, but I devoured that book in a matter of hours. I then got a few kids from my neighborhood in my kitchen and we played. It was mostly story-driven, with a few vague rolls here and there to find out if a cetain action was successful or not. We had a lot of fun.
It also changed my life forever.
Ultradan
Sounds a bit like my story. I saw some kids reading through the D&D Basic Set (redish-orange box) on the school bus. I started pestering them with questions, and when I got home, I begged my parents to buy it for me. I was eight, IIRC.
I remember when my dad finally relented, and took me to a hobby store to buy it. He then had to put up with me begging him to run the game and harassing my sisters to be the rest of my adventuring party.
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I remember when my dad finally relented, and took me to a hobby store to buy it. He then had to put up with me begging him to run the game and harassing my sisters to be the rest of my adventuring party.Did your dad acquiesce to your request?
Dad wasn't the problem. It was convincing my sisters. They HATED playing, but my parents guilted them into an hour of gaming a week.
You will never see that in a Jack Chick strip. Role Playing Games, bringing families together since 1979.
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You will never see that in a Jack Chick strip. Role Playing Games, bringing families together since 1979.
I was real disapointed when I read that strip. My DM never offered to teach me real magic, and there were never that many girls in any of the groups I played in. The people in the strip never even drank any Mountain Dew, they weren't real gamers. ;p
i ran a simple game for my kids,because they watched my gaming group all the time and wanted to play.my son was 7 at the time and my daughter was 5,my girlfriend at the time had a daughter who was 5 as well.my son chose to play an elven ranger.my daughter played a human cleric.and brittaney played a human wizard.i pretty much let them get away with anything they wanted to do.my son was clever an was hiding and sneaking taking pop shots at the enemy.the girls were funny and made the game so much fun.they were so animated about anything they did.(by the way they watch alot of charmed an thier character names where the names of the girls on the show)it was a great time i wish i had it recorded.but i only run them when they really want to play,because ive also had games were 10 min later they have lost intrest.so it just depends.i wouldnt push it on them.
I would say a good time to introduce your children to role playing games is when they start showing interest.
I second the Poodle Lord 100%. If the kids show interest, go for it!
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You will never see that in a Jack Chick strip. Role Playing Games, bringing families together since 1979.
Along those same lines, my mother taught Religion classes at our local Catholic High School for 20-some years, and she was one of the staunchest defenders of my hobby.
She was impressed, especially, with the vocabulary used in the rulebooks and felt that it gave me a decided leg-up on my classmates who spent all their free-time playing ATARI.
She went to the mats for me several times when other teachers, or parents questioned the appropriateness of "those books."
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I think Tommy has a good point, with respect to desire. As much as I'd love to run an ongoing campaign for my family, I can't force any of them to play.
And while kids are often smarter than we realize, I would say that even more important than the ability to understand the mechanics of a system is the maturity required to stick with it.
I'll admit that my experience is a little different, due to some minor issues my daughters have to deal with (i.e., sensory integration difficulties as a result of severe prematurity). Even at the age of 6, it's very difficult for them to remember to take turns and accept that games have rules that must be followed.
They are really bright girls and could probably learn most of the game mechanics given time, but it's a matter of patience and attention span for them. They probably wouldn't be able to sit down with other six- or seven-year-olds and play more than a few rounds of combat before they started getting disruptive.
That's why I say the initial answer to the OP's question will always be "it depends on the child." After that, it's a matter of accepting that even an advanced (or genius) 7-year-old isn't going to have the maturity (life experience) to grasp complex themes and intricate story points.
As long as the adventures are designed with the appropriate maturity level, I still say start them off as early as you can.
I have three boys, ages 10, 8, and 5. I am planning on starting them off in Star Wars Saga Edition as an introduction to gaming. Do you think this is a good age, or are some of my kids still too young in your opinion?
I started my kids off at: 5, 5, and 7.
It was great family entertainment.
The themes you use with kids are different than some of the themes you use with adults.
I did an ORIGINS seminar a few years ago on the topic of intergenerational gaming, and the slides are here:
Go to Dr. Games' Gaming Seminars.
In service,
Rich
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Hey, Folks!
Just thought I'd share some cool news with those of you interested in this topic.
On Sunday (yesterday), the girls were bored and I wouldn't let them watch any more TV. I suggested that we play a game, went over to the shelf of board games, and started naming off options.
Both of my daughters broke in and said, "Let's play the faery story game...the one where we get to be the faeries and fight monsters and stuff."
I was so happy I could have done a backflip...okay, not really, but you get the idea.
Anyway, I pulled out the folder with my Faery's Tale Deluxe rules and stuff and we proceeded to play through one of the adventures in the book (The Frog Prince) in about an hour or so.
It was awesome. They're still working on actually listening to the story and choosing actions that make sense, but in that respect the game is good for them, I think. In all, it was a great way to spend time with them on a Sunday. I can't wait to do it again.
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You will never see that in a Jack Chick strip. Role Playing Games, bringing families together since 1979.Along those same lines, my mother taught Religion classes at our local Catholic High School for 20-some years, and she was one of the staunchest defenders of my hobby.
She was impressed, especially, with the vocabulary used in the rulebooks and felt that it gave me a decided leg-up on my classmates who spent all their free-time playing ATARI.
She went to the mats for me several times when other teachers, or parents questioned the appropriateness of "those books."
That's a cool mom.
HeyOn Sunday (yesterday), the girls were bored and I wouldn't let them watch any more TV. I suggested that we play a game, went over to the shelf of board games, and started naming off options.
Both of my daughters broke in and said, "Let's play the faery story game...the one where we get to be the faeries and fight monsters and stuff."
That's a great way to lure girls into D&D... "Hey girls, wanna play faeries vs monsters" Whip out a few simplified house rules and voila!
Great story Paris!
Thanks, Hugo. I have to say that it's good to be on these boards, where we can use a phrase like "lure girls into D&D" and have everyone understand what we really mean. ;)
Jeps, lovely place this is. And I really hope everyone understood that "lure girls" line correctly, otherwise I'll get banned from here! ;P
You will never see that in a Jack Chick strip. Role Playing Games, bringing families together since 1979.Along those same lines, my mother taught Religion classes at our local Catholic High School for 20-some years, and she was one of the staunchest defenders of my hobby.
She was impressed, especially, with the vocabulary used in the rulebooks and felt that it gave me a decided leg-up on my classmates who spent all their free-time playing ATARI.
She went to the mats for me several times when other teachers, or parents questioned the appropriateness of "those books."
My mother was quite a bit like that. I remember listening to her defend our gaming to other parents. In her mind, we were all in her kitchen where she could watch us and we were not doing all the other delinquent things that teen-age boys could be doing.
Now I have started a game for my 11 year old daughter. We just finished a PG version of Hollow's Last Hope except based in Sandpoint. So far it has been a blast.
I will be starting a new campaign probably at the start of 2009. My daughter of 9, then 10, will be playing also. I am very curious how it goes.
She has already invented a character, a LG monk, who has been kicked out by his CN(E) family.
Last weekend I bought the Once Upon a Time card game. It is not a collectable card game. My daughter can not read yet, so that creates a barrier to some games. However, almost all of the cards in this game have a picture on them.
The object of the game is to play all of your cards by using whatever is on the card as part of the story you co-create.
She has really enjoyed the few games we have played. She gets frustrated some times when I will not let her just put something down without making it truly part of the story. For instance, we had a story where a brother and sister stole a fairy’s treasure which had caused the fairy to go blind until the treasure was returned. My daughter had a card with an axe on it and she kept trying to play it saying there was an axe but could not relate it to the story.
This is not exactly a role playing game, but I think it is a good introduction for very young children as it engages their creativity. I plan on taking the cards whenever we go out to eat so we can play while we are waiting for our food.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I didn't start D&D 'til High School (12-13 here in Australia). Red Box for a couple of years then 2nd Edition. All through Primary School (so from 8+) however, I borrowed from the school library and played Fighting Fantasy Game Books and absolutely loved them! They are looking a bit dated by today's standards, but they are a good way to introduce RPGs to younger children. I know that they have re-released some of them, but I have been picking them up for $2-3 from second hand bookstores for a while now, so they shouldn't be that hard to come by.
If you don't know the concept, then this is how they play:
They are basically a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure style book, but you roll stats at the start using d6 and throughout the book there are monters to fight who also have stats. There are also traps and puzzles to solve along the way to completing your quest. Obviously they are a self-play style RPG, but it gives them something to play when you aren't playing as a family and gives them a good grounding in the basic concepts of RPGs.
They also did an "Advanced" Fighting Fantasy that was designed for multiple players, but based off the same system. It wasn't particularly balanced, but it was dead simple to play (especially if you've already played the single player books).
Sadly my kids are only 2yrs 8months (Daughter) and 8months (Son), so it will be a looong time before I can start to teach them RPGs. I do play some CCGs though, so I'm gonna start with Harry Potter as soon as I think she's able (she is super smart and loves me reading her Harry Potter, so it's a good thing I've got those particular cards). I can't wait, although my wife isn't as impressed (she's a non-gamer).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Last weekend I bought the Once Upon a Time card game. It is not a collectable card game. My daughter can not read yet, so that creates a barrier to some games. However, almost all of the cards in this game have a picture on them.
I just checked this out based on your recommendation CF and I've gotta say that as soon as I get cash together for another splurge I am adding this to my Cart without any hesitation. Caitlin will love it! We play The Very Hungry Caterpillar Card Game together all the time and she loves it, so this one should go down a treat.
Cheers! =)
Just a note, I am not currently using the Ever After cards because they do not have pictures and I think they add some difficulty. Once my daughter gets the hang of what constitutes ‘part of the story’ I might add them.
Oh, and Paizo, where is my commission? (sly grin)
Just a note, I am not currently using the Ever After cards because they do not have pictures and I think they add some difficulty. Once my daughter gets the hang of what constitutes ‘part of the story’ I might add them.
My gang started with the Once Upon a Time game back when it came with brown, cardstock cards in a big green box, and the whole family loved it. We only played "according to the rules" a few times. Most of the time we used it as a creative outlet.
GREAT GAME though!
In service,
Rich
Go to The Original Dr. Games Site.
My oldest daughter is only about to turn three so I have awhile to wait. We'll be playing some woodland high fantasy with fairies and elves when she's ready. She's already a fantasy nut though! Her favorite movie is Willow and she's always saying she's a hero and she has a big plastic sword that she had for halloween that she is always fighting goblins with. She thinks that my job as a soldier is to fight goblins.
My daughter started on D&D when she was 7, but was 9 before she was able to play without a great deal of prompting. ("Are you sure that's a good idea, little one? You were saving those arrows for a monster with DR.")
Of course, I know some adults that need a great deal of prompting. ("What do you mean, your 7th level ranger has no potions, no magic weapons and no arrows of special materials? You don't even have cold iron? What do you do when you encounter monsters with DR?")
After months of anticipating and semi-planning, I finally sat down last night w/ my fiancee and her two kids (5 and 9) to try to play D&D, as from the Basic box set WotC released a few years ago.
Pregen characters helped keep attention spans at the start. The 9 year old took the elf wizard and the 5 year old took the fighter. My fiancee took the cleric and the rogue. We got through the first three encounters in the set. Results were mixed.
On the minus side, the 9 year old had a fixation for running into the rooms to search and open all the treasure chests while the other three characters were still in combat with the room's denizens. (I'm suddenly wondering now if that is a mindset from playing video games - ie: run in and get the stuff and run out before the bad guy touches you.) This lessened somewhat when we suggested items should be shared rather than first-come-first-served. That and my giving the last goblin in the second room a death speech to the effect of "Though we are defeated today, I know I can die happy having fired my last arrow at the foe of ours who showed the least amount of teamwork and cooperation in the assault. Have-at-thee!" Subtle? No. But kinda worked.
The 5 year old did ok, especially when being coached on where to go to swing his sword. Otherwise his movement patterns became somewhat erratic... Sometimes ending with the phrase "There. Now I am on the carpet." Attention spans were kind of an issue there too... At certain points, the game of "Which hand is the green die in?" seemed to take priority, and he had a habit of running around to see what other cool monsters I was hiding behind the screen.
It was tricky to explain sneak attack and why you don't get it with a ranged weapon. And why even if you did, you wouldn't get it against the skeleton. And why my fiancee should have gotten one when they jumped the goblins before, but I just plain forgot about it. We are planning some tutorial time on that though to make sure she is ready for GenCon.
They started to get the hang of it though I think, towards the end. In the last encounter, the 9 year old decided to cast Magic Missle and worked the whole thing out from idea to telling me the damage without help. But she does read at a "higher level". Than me at least when I was 9...
One unforeseen wrinkle... I have been insidiously prepping them with the D&D cartoon for the last few weeks too. I was pretty caught off guard when they asked where my Dungeon Master mini was. D'oh. "Yeah, he's not actually a real guy like that. And, no, the people on the screen aren't actually your PCs either..."
I have three boys, ages 10, 8, and 5. I am planning on starting them off in Star Wars Saga Edition as an introduction to gaming. Do you think this is a good age, or are some of my kids still too young in your opinion?
Haven't read the whole blog yet but I have a group of my best buddy's son and his frineds playing every other sat. and they are about he same age. We are playing Pathfinder/3.5 with all the rules really really waterned down. I have found that if you keep the rules at a minimum (whatever system you're playing) instead of scaring the kids with a ton of rules they naturally start to look stuff up and try to understand why they can or cannot do something. It has been a blast, espically when I realized that the kids concept of their characters were also kids.
I'll read the whole blog later but to answer your question directly yes I think its a fine age, just let them discover the rules as they go along and keep it fast and lose.
Remember a kid almost never wakes up one morning and says "Hey I want to be a Role Player for the rest of my life!" They discover RPG's via friends/family who are already into it. We have a responsiblity to the next generation.
TTFN DRE