Adventurer's Vault


4th Edition

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So I just got it today. Looks like a good supplement for 4e.

Now I'm not the best at reviews but here's some thing I noticed so far.

Section over Masterwork Armor (Githweave, Drowmesh to name a few)

A selection of new weapons (Kukri, broadsword, fullblade, khopesh, etc.)

The new weapon properties (Brutal and Defensive)

Spoiler:

Brutal: A brutal weapon’s minimum damage is
higher than that of a normal weapon. When rolling
the weapon’s damage, reroll any die that displays a
value equal to or lower than the brutal value given
for the weapon. Reroll the die until the value shown
exceeds the weapon’s brutal value, and then use the
new value.

For example, the execution axe has a property of
brutal 2. If a fighter wielding this weapon hits with
steel serpent strike (a 2[W] power), the player rolls
2d12 for the weapon damage, rerolling a die result of
1 or 2 until the die shows 3 or higher.

Defensive: A defensive weapon grants you a +1
bonus to AC while you wield the defensive weapon
in one hand and wield another melee weapon in
your other hand. Wielding more than one defensive
weapon does not increase this bonus. To gain
this benefit, you need not attack with the defensive
weapon, but you must be proficient with it.

The Exchange

Lazaro wrote:

For example, the execution axe has a property of

brutal 2. If a fighter wielding this weapon hits with
steel serpent strike (a 2[W] power), the player rolls
2d12 for the weapon damage, rerolling a die result of
1 or 2 until the die shows 3 or higher.

This could lead to a lot of annoying rerolls that would slow down play if the player's luck with the dice is bad.

I got below three again! That's the 4th time!


Lord Stewpndous wrote:
Lazaro wrote:

For example, the execution axe has a property of

brutal 2. If a fighter wielding this weapon hits with
steel serpent strike (a 2[W] power), the player rolls
2d12 for the weapon damage, rerolling a die result of
1 or 2 until the die shows 3 or higher.

This could lead to a lot of annoying rerolls that would slow down play if the player's luck with the dice is bad.

I got below three again! That's the 4th time!

Perhaps, but I imagine cases like that would be rare unless the weapon has a brutal value of 6 or something. It's an interesting mechanic but I wouldn't give it to a newbie player. Describing the concept to someone unfamiliar with RPGs would not be fun.


Lord Stewpndous wrote:
Lazaro wrote:

For example, the execution axe has a property of

brutal 2. If a fighter wielding this weapon hits with
steel serpent strike (a 2[W] power), the player rolls
2d12 for the weapon damage, rerolling a die result of
1 or 2 until the die shows 3 or higher.

This could lead to a lot of annoying rerolls that would slow down play if the player's luck with the dice is bad.

I got below three again! That's the 4th time!

How long does it take to look at a die, notice that number is a one or two, pick it up, and throw it again? Like, two seconds. That's not a game-slowing mechanic.


TGZ101 wrote:
Lord Stewpndous wrote:
Lazaro wrote:

For example, the execution axe has a property of

brutal 2. If a fighter wielding this weapon hits with
steel serpent strike (a 2[W] power), the player rolls
2d12 for the weapon damage, rerolling a die result of
1 or 2 until the die shows 3 or higher.

This could lead to a lot of annoying rerolls that would slow down play if the player's luck with the dice is bad.

I got below three again! That's the 4th time!
Perhaps, but I imagine cases like that would be rare unless the weapon has a brutal value of 6 or something. It's an interesting mechanic but I wouldn't give it to a newbie player. Describing the concept to someone unfamiliar with RPGs would not be fun.

Re-roll the die when you roll a 1 or 2 doesn't strike me as particularly complicated, even to someone who's never rolled a die before.


I myself am pretty excited about the beastmaster ranger build mentioned on page 122 coming in the martial powers supplement

The Exchange

Brutal is wonky. Instead of 1d12 Brutal 2 it should have been 1d12+2 - same thing when all is said and done.


crosswiredmind wrote:
Brutal is wonky. Instead of 1d12 Brutal 2 it should have been 1d12+2 - same thing when all is said and done.

Statistically I think Brutal is the equivalent of 1d12+1.

That said I like the mechanic. It might be statistically the same as a +1 but in reality its a little different. It does not increase the max damage but insures that one can't go below a certain threshold. Not a bad little mechanic - only comes up every so often but the player will like that his weapon is brutal on those occasions that he gets to reroll the really low damage result.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

crosswiredmind wrote:
Brutal is wonky. Instead of 1d12 Brutal 2 it should have been 1d12+2 - same thing when all is said and done.

Agreed - it is a wonky mechanic that seems needlessly complicated.

How is the book in general? Anyone have a chance to take a look at it? I'm getting ready to use my 25% off coupon at Paizo and currently have Adventurer's Vault in my shopping cart.

Edit: But maybe it is fun to reroll the low dice, as Jeremy points out.


Lazaro wrote:
The new weapon properties (Brutal and Defensive)

Has anyone else noticed the weird side-effect of a large executioner axe?

If you increase an executioner axe to large sized - as a PC in my game has already asked to - they become 2-die weapons (e.g.: 1d12 -> 2d6).
So that large executioner axe now has a minimum die damage of 6... in combination with a 2 or 3 W power, we're now looking at minimum damage values of 12-18 on the dice (without Str, item, feat, power bonuses).

I wonder if this is intentional power escalation or an oversight by WotC?

The Exchange

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
crosswiredmind wrote:
Brutal is wonky. Instead of 1d12 Brutal 2 it should have been 1d12+2 - same thing when all is said and done.

Statistically I think Brutal is the equivalent of 1d12+1.

That said I like the mechanic. It might be statistically the same as a +1 but in reality its a little different. It does not increase the max damage but insures that one can't go below a certain threshold. Not a bad little mechanic - only comes up every so often but the player will like that his weapon is brutal on those occasions that he gets to reroll the really low damage result.

I meant 1d10+2. oops. That would give a linear damage curve from 3-12.


crosswiredmind wrote:
I meant 1d10+2. oops. That would give a linear damage curve from 3-12.

It works for the brutal 2 weapons (because D&D die size increases in increments of 2: d4 -> d6 -> d8 -> d10 -> d12). Not so much for brutal 1 weapons...

E.g.: d10 brutal 1 would be equivalent to d9+1. Not so easy to accomplish with standard dice.
:)


I managed to get ahold of Adventurer’s Vault (yay). I know that one of the earliest 4th Edition gripes was a lack of gear: some people were apparently utterly unable to waive the costs of trivial items like buckets and hats. The bad news (for them) is that AV doesnt feature prices for those things, either. Its basically an expanded list of everything that already exists in the PH, kind of like an Arms & Equipment Guide that I would actually use.

This book can be broken down into like, barely three sections. The first one contains additional weapons and armor. Armor adds at least four new special armor types to each category (in some cases 5, but plate gets the lion’s share at a whopping SIX).
Some of the higher grade special armors grant you special properties, like a +1 to +2 bonus to a Defense, or in the case of tarrasque plate, resist ALL (ranging from 1 to 5).
The good news is that the new armors skip over the existing ones, so there is still a reason to get wyrmscale armor. The armor "materials" just transition more rapidly, now.

There arent as many new weapons as I had initially expected, but they did bring back double weapons along with two new weapon properties: Brutal and Defensive. A Brutal weapon lets you reroll damage dice from your weapon if you roll the number or less, while Defensive gives you a +1 bonus to your AC as long as you arent attacking with the weapon granting you the feature. All double-weapons are Defensive.
Some highlights are the kukri, which is a 1d6 superior dagger that has Brutal 1 (using with a minotaur rogue), and the fullblade, which is a 1d12 superior heavy blade that has High Crit (using with my paragon human fighter).

There are also a ton of new mounts, as well as vehicles that range from ships to chariots to wagons to the Apparatus of Kwalish.
Of the new mounts, the riding lizard sounds neat, as does the skeletal horse (grants rider resist 20 necrotic). The mount overview table has speeds listed in miles per hour and miles per day.
Oh yeah, there are now costs listed by the mounts, so people can stop whining about the presumed cost of a hippogriff (4,200 gp). The most expensive mount in there is the rimefire griffon, weighing it at 525,000 gp. The cheapest are camels and riding horses at a measly 75 gp.
There is also barding in there for people using mounts, which adds either +1 or +2 to its AC depending on if you went with the light or heavy versions. If your mount is a soldier, the armor gets chopped back by a point, since soldier animals already have some form of armor on them (meaning that you have to go with heavy and drop their speed by a point as well).

The first chapter wraps things up with alchemy. You can tamper with alchemy by burning a feat, and if your character gets Ritual Caster at the start, you can swap it out for Alchemist for free.
Making an alchemical item requires a formula beforehand, kind of like how rituals work. After that its just a matter of money and time, and as you level up you can make improved versions of EVERYTHING. This means that alchemist fire remains actually useful throughout the campaign, instead of petering off your radar after the first few levels.
Alchemist fire, frost, and acid is there. So are thunderstones, tanglefoot bags, flash bombs, a poultice that heals bonus HP during a short rest, and a crapload of other things.

The meat of the book is Chapter 2: Magic Lootz. This expands upon every category that we had in the PH, with the addition of two NEW categories: companions and mounts.
According to the sidebar on Companions and Mounts, companions are a feature of the beastmaster ranger build which will debut in Martial Power (teases). You can arm a companion or mount with one magic item (which fills the Companion/Mount "slot"), and activate it using your own actions. This isnt too much of a big deal, since all of the items are either properties or use minor/immediate actions.
If a creature is both a companion AND a mount (kinky), it can still only use one item at a time.

Otherwise, you’re looking at more of the same: new weapons, armor, implements, rings, belts, shoes, socks, underwear, etc.

At the back of the book is the Appendix, which adds a Transfer Enchantment ritual that allows you to port properties and powers from one magic item to another, so that if you find a suit of armor you cant wear, you can move the benefit to your own armor (assuming its not lower level and of the required type).
It also has some advice on introducing unique items, alignment, and history to magic items.

All in all, excellent buy.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Antioch wrote:
Lots of cool info

Thanks for sharing that!

I can see how the Brutal property could slow things down. There was a discussion at one of the Wizards seminars at GenCon about properties that allow re-rolls (example was a Vorpal Falchion [2d4] used with magic gloves that allow rerolls of 1s, so the player got to reroll all 1s and reroll-add all 4s). But it probably would only be a problem in rare cases like that, so easily avoided.

The book sounds amazing, I can't wait til my FLGS gets their shipment in...


crosswiredmind wrote:
Brutal is wonky. Instead of 1d12 Brutal 2 it should have been 1d10+2 - same thing when all is said and done.

Yeah, but 1d12 Brutal 3 would be 1d9+3 -- and we have no d9 to roll.

But I also agree it's a bit wonky -- this is a slightly awkward rule to implement, and rather contrary to the 4e philosophy of streamlining at every opportunity.

The Exchange

Tatterdemalion wrote:
crosswiredmind wrote:
Brutal is wonky. Instead of 1d12 Brutal 2 it should have been 1d10+2 - same thing when all is said and done.

Yeah, but 1d12 Brutal 3 would be 1d9+3 -- and we have no d9 to roll.

But I also agree it's a bit wonky -- this is a slightly awkward rule to implement, and rather contrary to the 4e philosophy of streamlining at every opportunity.

Yup, it definitely breaks when you get odd numbers. I think I will just roll 2d12 and have one the same color as my d20. If that one is under the brutal rating I will just use the other one which will be a different color. If that one is also under then I'll just roll one again.


Tatterdemalion wrote:
Yeah, but 1d12 Brutal 3 would be 1d9+3 -- and we have no d9 to roll.

There is no brutal 3, and I suspect there never will be - at least not on a d12 weapon which when up sized to large becomes 2d6...

That would result in a weapon with a minimum damage of 8 per W. As I pointed out above - I think brutal 2 is bad enough in this case!

Of course, there is still the problem of requiring odd-sided dice with brutal 1 weapons, which is why I suspect they went with the reroll mechanic...


The Alchemy section is really great; looks more playable than the Craft skill from before. That's my big hook into the supplement
I just was a bit surprised at the lack of new regular armor, thought they were going to include stuff like ring mail, breastplates and such. Funny how the weapon system is kinda complicated now, whereas armor remains simple.


Scott Betts wrote:
TGZ101 wrote:
Lord Stewpndous wrote:
Lazaro wrote:

For example, the execution axe has a property of

brutal 2. If a fighter wielding this weapon hits with
steel serpent strike (a 2[W] power), the player rolls
2d12 for the weapon damage, rerolling a die result of
1 or 2 until the die shows 3 or higher.

This could lead to a lot of annoying rerolls that would slow down play if the player's luck with the dice is bad.

I got below three again! That's the 4th time!
Perhaps, but I imagine cases like that would be rare unless the weapon has a brutal value of 6 or something. It's an interesting mechanic but I wouldn't give it to a newbie player. Describing the concept to someone unfamiliar with RPGs would not be fun.
Re-roll the die when you roll a 1 or 2 doesn't strike me as particularly complicated, even to someone who's never rolled a die before.

You would think so but most of my players seem to be...special. We're talking about people who, even with power cards that have their bonuses added up and spelled out for them, still have to ask me every single round what number they're supposed to add to their die. :)

It can be fun, but half the time I feel like I'm playing by myself, adding up everyone's attack bonuses for them every round. They seriously will roll a die and pretty much make up a number, usually something really low, and then I have to waste combat time explaining what their bonus is....every single round. So it wasn't a knock on 4E, which I love, it was a knock on my own "special" players. :D

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Scott Betts wrote:
How long does it take to look at a die, notice that number is a one or two, pick it up, and throw it again? Like, two seconds. That's not a game-slowing mechanic.

Actually, it most certainly is. More rolling = slower gameplay. That's one of the reasons people roll to hit and damage together, and one of the reasons 4E took away rolling for damage more than once on area attacks.

I agree 1d10+2 is simpler, but +1 damage is even easier (if slightly different in terms of the range). That also helps reveal brutal 1 to be the silly tiny bonus it is, +1/2 on 1-die weapons. You could do it by adding 1 on odd damage numbers more easily.

It also bothers me to have a power that works better on 2d4 than on 1d10, but I'm not sure 2d4 is even a damage anymore.


Russ Taylor wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
How long does it take to look at a die, notice that number is a one or two, pick it up, and throw it again? Like, two seconds. That's not a game-slowing mechanic.

Actually, it most certainly is. More rolling = slower gameplay. That's one of the reasons people roll to hit and damage together, and one of the reasons 4E took away rolling for damage more than once on area attacks.

I agree 1d10+2 is simpler, but +1 damage is even easier (if slightly different in terms of the range). That also helps reveal brutal 1 to be the silly tiny bonus it is, +1/2 on 1-die weapons. You could do it by adding 1 on odd damage numbers more easily.

It also bothers me to have a power that works better on 2d4 than on 1d10, but I'm not sure 2d4 is even a damage anymore.

As far as Brutal goes, the easiest thing WotC could have done, and what player's can still do if they so choose, is to consider the Brutal score the minimum damage.

Meaning, if a weapon does 1d12 Brutal 3 damage, then the minimum damage is always at least three, unless rolled higher. This would eliminate the need to re-roll damage over and over. Of coarse this also means that the brutal scores listed in the AV would need to be increased by one point, but that isn't a terribly huge deal.

DogBone

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

DogBone wrote:

As far as Brutal goes, the easiest thing WotC could have done, and what player's can still do if they so choose, is to consider the Brutal score the minimum damage.

Meaning, if a weapon does 1d12 Brutal 3 damage, then the minimum damage is always at least three, unless rolled higher. This would eliminate the need to re-roll damage over and over. Of coarse this also means that the brutal scores listed in the AV would need to be increased by one point, but that isn't a terribly huge deal.

That could be done, but it winds up being a fairly weak power (and even weaker for larger dice). Min. 3 on 1d12 is only +1/4 hp of damage over the long haul.

Dark Archive

Tatterdemalion wrote:
But I also agree it's a bit wonky -- this is a slightly awkward rule to implement, and rather contrary to the 4e philosophy of streamlining at every opportunity.

This might be the reason "Brutal" quality is not in the PHB.

Also, to make gameplay faster, you can assign Brutal damage eah time you roll less.
e.g. Brutal of 4 and a 2(W) power for Maul would do 2x4=8 damage.

This is not the same as re-rolling and lowers the average damage potential of the weapon but makes gameplay faster.

Especially in later level if you roll 7(W) for powers...


Keep up the talk. Pretty soon I won't have to buy it since you have told me everything.

FYI, RPGNOw is selling Adventure Vault for about $20 vs. the $30 hardcopy. It seems to be a step in the right direction for PDF pricing. I am still boycotting until they give me a decent DDI though. I should get it right after my flying car.

EDIT: Oh wait. Paizo has the hard copy for around $26. Should have known Paizo was taking care of us.


On the topic of weapons, none of the weapons in the book scream to me that they are superior to the rest of them. They've done a good job of introducing new stuff without invalidating the old, or making any one type of weapon the "obvious" choice.

Playing a rogue, there are reasons to go after the dagger as opposed to a kukri: a dagger has a higher proficiency bonus, and doesnt require a feat. A kukri is a d6 weapon, which is a better average damage of one (the same thing you'd get from Weapon Focus), and has Brutal 1.

Even the greatsword/bastard sword/fullblade relationship hasnt been compromised: I can see reasons for taking all three (greatsword seems best for those not wanting to spend a feat for what really amounts to +1 damage).

I also browsed a lot of the magic items yesterday for stuff to purchase/trade out on my 14th-level fighter and for my level 13 guys in Age of Worms. Some of it was good, but there were still items in the PH (or even some of the Dragon articles) that I thought made a better fit.

The Exchange

Antioch wrote:
On the topic of weapons, none of the weapons in the book scream to me that they are superior to the rest of them.

For me there is one clearly superior weapon - the executioners axe. Why would I ever use a great axe again? The two are both prof +2, d12, high crit but the executioners axe adds brutal 2. (IIRC)


crosswiredmind wrote:
Antioch wrote:
On the topic of weapons, none of the weapons in the book scream to me that they are superior to the rest of them.

For me there is one clearly superior weapon - the executioners axe. Why would I ever use a great axe again? The two are both prof +2, d12, high crit but the executioners axe adds brutal 2. (IIRC)

The executioner's axe is a superior weapon, meaning that if you want that +2 to hit, that you'll need to spend a feat for it.


crosswiredmind wrote:
Antioch wrote:
On the topic of weapons, none of the weapons in the book scream to me that they are superior to the rest of them.
For me there is one clearly superior weapon - the executioners axe. Why would I ever use a great axe again? The two are both prof +2, d12, high crit but the executioners axe adds brutal 2. (IIRC)

Yeah - I don't think he was saying that no weapon is better than another (as that is precisely what the Superior Weapons are), but that no specific weapon stood out as making all other choices meaningless.

I am very impressed with the book all around. The sheer amount of items they packed into there is impressive.


Its like Christmas came early!

The only problem is that my character is doomed to be forever broke. A friend did an analysis of the treasure system and came to the conclusion that we'll receive the vast majority of our wealth by level in magic items. Sine Our DM picks out items that work with our characters we never sell them - so we never have any cash.


Matthew Koelbl wrote:
crosswiredmind wrote:
Antioch wrote:
On the topic of weapons, none of the weapons in the book scream to me that they are superior to the rest of them.
For me there is one clearly superior weapon - the executioners axe. Why would I ever use a great axe again? The two are both prof +2, d12, high crit but the executioners axe adds brutal 2. (IIRC)

Yeah - I don't think he was saying that no weapon is better than another (as that is precisely what the Superior Weapons are), but that no specific weapon stood out as making all other choices meaningless.

I am very impressed with the book all around. The sheer amount of items they packed into there is impressive.

Precisely. Some are better, but not so blatantly better that its a no brainer to spend a feat on them to get them. Like, there is a reason to want to use a greatsword, and a reason to want to use a greataxe (neither is inherently superior to the other: they each have an advantage).

Even with the slew of superior weapons introduced, they dont provide benefits so great that people would call you stupid for not spending a feat on a bastard sword or fullblade instead of just using a greatsword.

The Exchange

Antioch wrote:
The executioner's axe is a superior weapon, meaning that if you want that +2 to hit, that you'll need to spend a feat for it.

True. However, my LFR PC is a dwarf with the dwarven weapon feat thingy. He has proficiency with all axes and hammers. That makes my choice simple - I take the best axe or hammer available.


crosswiredmind wrote:
Antioch wrote:
The executioner's axe is a superior weapon, meaning that if you want that +2 to hit, that you'll need to spend a feat for it.
True. However, my LFR PC is a dwarf with the dwarven weapon feat thingy. He has proficiency with all axes and hammers. That makes my choice simple - I take the best axe or hammer available.

Yeah, that feat (and the Eladrin one as well) got a pretty hefty boost from the introduction of the superior weaponry.

On the other hand, both those races were slightly behind as standard fighter types due to not getting a strength boost, so I think the extra oomph from their racial feats helps them out in an entirely reasonable fashion.


crosswiredmind wrote:
Antioch wrote:
The executioner's axe is a superior weapon, meaning that if you want that +2 to hit, that you'll need to spend a feat for it.
True. However, my LFR PC is a dwarf with the dwarven weapon feat thingy. He has proficiency with all axes and hammers. That makes my choice simple - I take the best axe or hammer available.

Of course. I cant see a lot of dwarven fighters snagging Dwarven Soldier and deciding to wield a handaxe. For all my one-handed axe needs, I'm gonna go with the battleaxe for more damage. For a two-handed axe, I would have formerly gone with the greataxe. Now, I'd go with the executioner's axe...assuming I was a dwarf.

For anyone else? They still had to spend a feat. Frankly, so did the dwarf, but dwarves really dig their axes (just like eladrin love spears).
One thing to note is that as a dwarf fighter, you really only got proficiency with the executioner's axe: you were proficient with the other ones already, so that feat is only useful in the fact that you get Weapon Focus as it stands in paragon tier.
If a human fighter takes Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus, then in epic tier he's actually doing 1 point of damage more than you. You could also take Weapon Focus, in which case you both spent the same number of feats for the same benefit.
Still, its a pretty big deal throughout most of your career as long as you are playing a dwarf melee warrior of some sort.

I'm really happy with the way Wizards did that sort of thing. It makes racial weapons far more iconic and likely to be used. If I play an eladrin fighter, I'm gonna be hard-pressed to not want to use a spear.


Matthew Koelbl wrote:
crosswiredmind wrote:
Antioch wrote:
The executioner's axe is a superior weapon, meaning that if you want that +2 to hit, that you'll need to spend a feat for it.
True. However, my LFR PC is a dwarf with the dwarven weapon feat thingy. He has proficiency with all axes and hammers. That makes my choice simple - I take the best axe or hammer available.

Yeah, that feat (and the Eladrin one as well) got a pretty hefty boost from the introduction of the superior weaponry.

On the other hand, both those races were slightly behind as standard fighter types due to not getting a strength boost, so I think the extra oomph from their racial feats helps them out in an entirely reasonable fashion.

Eladrin Soldier is what I used for a hide-wearing spear user. The AC is on-par to better than a "normal" fighter's AC. I primarily went with eladrin because the feat gives you an edge early on, but I guess elf is better in the long run because the +2 to Wisdom is better for your opportunity attacks. To me, eladrin just makes more sense!


Antioch wrote:
...eladrin love spears...

[THREADJACK]What a cool name for a Band.[/THREADJACK]

As a note, I can't wait to get this book. Hopefully the FLGS will have it in today, so I can pick it up after work.


Antioch wrote:
Eladrin Soldier is what I used for a hide-wearing spear user. The AC is on-par to better than a "normal" fighter's AC. I primarily went with eladrin because the feat gives you an edge early on, but I guess elf is better in the long run because the +2 to Wisdom is better for your opportunity attacks. To me, eladrin just makes more sense!

Actually, I got it for my Hide Wearing Tactical Warlord, either I can attack with my Fighter, or use my Longspear over his back.


So, since my copy of the book is on order but the dear sweet post office will not be getting it to me before Monday, I'd love to hear some more about the Alchemy, rituals, and individual magic items that appear in the book.

Any new magic weapons or items that really leap out at you?

New rituals being introduced? (Besides the very cool enchantment transfer ritual mentiuoned earlier?)

Just looking for some content spoilers really, as waiting sucks.

The Exchange

Teiran wrote:
Any new magic weapons or items that really leap out at you?

Neverending Chalk - a stick of chalk that never gets used up and the stuff you write cannot be erased for a week unless you do it yourself.

My next LFR character is going to be a rogue/graf writer. My tag will be all over the Realms.


Teiran wrote:

So, since my copy of the book is on order but the dear sweet post office will not be getting it to me before Monday, I'd love to hear some more about the Alchemy, rituals, and individual magic items that appear in the book.

Any new magic weapons or items that really leap out at you?

New rituals being introduced? (Besides the very cool enchantment transfer ritual mentiuoned earlier?)

Just looking for some content spoilers really, as waiting sucks.

Transfer Enchantment is the only ritual.

The rules for Alchemy seems well-designed and the items seem quite useful. You've got a variety of damaging items (Alchemist's Fire, Acid, Frost), items that can immobilize enemies or partially blind them (Tanglefoot Bag, Blinding Bomb), items to help protect against poisons or remove status effects (Antivenom, Clearsense Powder), and those are just the simple stuff. More complex items include Beastbane (creates a zone with an aroma that drives beasts away), Blastpatch (toss these volatile crystals on the ground to create an instant trap!), Lockburst Chalk (expanding chalk used to try and break locks)... and of course, Sovereign Glue and Universal Solvent.

Items that stand out to me:

Cloaked Weapon: This weapon is invisible (to everyone but the wielder) until you attack with it, and returns to being invisible after being sheathed for five minutes. I find this awesome simply because this specific concept is one I had ages ago, but had never seen implemented.

Ratform Armor: You can use this armor to turn into a rat. You can't attack in this form, but being able to scout as a rat once a day is an awesome ability.

Master's Wands: These wands each give a specific extra benefit when using an arcane At-Will Power. Master's Wand of Magic Missile lets you push enemies 1 square with Magic Missile. Master's Wand of Dire Radiance makes it cost extra movement for enemies hit by Dire Radiance to get closer to you. These strike me as a great way for casters to get some extra use out of their At-Will powers.

Quickening Diadem: Level 29 item, a diadem of astral diamonds that floats around your head. In addition to giving a free move or minor action once a day, it also makes being dazed or stunned not nearly so bad - in both conditions, you can still take a move action in addition to whatever else you could normally do.

Cloak of the Phoenix and Ring of the Phoenix: High level items. Both basically do the same thing, once a day: Why die, when you can instead turn to ash and be reborn a round later in a powerful explosion of flame?

Ok, that sounds like a good preview. :)


crosswiredmind wrote:
Teiran wrote:
Any new magic weapons or items that really leap out at you?

Neverending Chalk - a stick of chalk that never gets used up and the stuff you write cannot be erased for a week unless you do it yourself.

My next LFR character is going to be a rogue/graf writer. My tag will be all over the Realms.

Now that? Is a damn cool magic item. I always carry colored chalk around with me, and the few times I've used it to mark my way thru a dungeon the DM always rubs them out, washes them away, or changes them on me.

I can see a million uses for this kind of thing, especially using it as a roleplay tool.

"Of course My Lord, I can removed the graffiti insulting the king befor ehis guards get here, but only if you pay us the money you prmosied for the job we did."

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I like this product. I ordered this and the FRPG. I like the Vault better. The FRPG had some nice mechanics but little flavor.


Stuff that jumped out at me:

ALCHEMY
Alchemy requires the Alchemist feat. If you got Ritual Casting as a class feature (like wizards do), you can opt to take this instead.
Alchemy requires that you have formulas, like rituals, and after that you can make any alchemy item of your level or lower.
Alchemy items scale now, so they dont stop being useful. For example, level 1 alchemist's fire attacks an Area 1 burst within 10, gets +4 to attack (vs. Reflex), and deals 1d6 fire damage (half on a miss). At level 6, it instead gets a +9 to the attack and deals 2d6 fire damage. At level 11, +14 vs. Reflex and 3d6 damage (and so on).
Oh, and some of them can be modified as ammunition (you can make that flask of alchemist's fire a ranged weapon instead by adding one to its level).

This sounds great to me, as I was one of the people who would take ranks in Craft (alchemy) all the time, either to have it end up utterly obsolete early on or not have enough time to really get into it (and then have it become obsolete anyway).

The skeletal horse mount.

Dragonscale armor: They have one set for each of the currently existing dragons, and they all do something different (they arent just reskins of eachother). The downside is that they are all level 18 or higher magic items, so dont expect them until 14th-level.

Staff of missile mastery: this thing breaks magic missiles. First, you get a +1 to hit. Second, you essentially double the staff's damage bonus. Third, you can use a daily power as a free action to attack two creatures with one magic missile attack. At level 17, you can instead smack up to three creatures with it. Oh, and on a crit it deals +1d8 damage per plus if you hit them with magic missile (instead of the normal 1d6).

Bloodiron/fey/hellrod: get the pact-specific benefits of a warlock power, even if you dont have that pact.


Antioch wrote:

Stuff that jumped out at me:

Bloodiron/fey/hellrod: get the pact-specific benefits of a warlock power, even if you dont have that pact.

Now there's a cool idea! Let's you have a bit of both if you like two different warlock paths.

You'd be able to extend that concept to other classes as well. A Tactical warlord with the right banner could get acces to the Inspirering warlord beneifits, and vise versa. The right staff or wand woudl grant the wizard the relative impliment bonus. A very neat idea.


Antioch wrote:
Alchemy requires the Alchemist feat...Alchemy requires that you have formulas, like rituals

Sounds like the solution for craft skills is through feats and recipes.


Lord Iriam wrote:
Antioch wrote:
Alchemy requires the Alchemist feat...Alchemy requires that you have formulas, like rituals
Sounds like the solution for craft skills is through feats and recipes.

I had been thinking the same thing in recent days, especially after they released the "Characters of War" backgrounds and one of them is a crafting that allows you to craft weapons and armors but doesn't give any advantage over buying items as they still cost the same amount.


Thats not a bad idea, but I dont know if I wanna quite make it an entire feat. I just dont think being able to craft mundane items or work a day job is worth that much.
Perhaps limit players to one or two types of Craft skills (like, I know, in WoW) or even not limit them at all: if they know how to make it, they can make it.

I wouldnt even "charge" a character to work. If they wanna bust tables, they can bust tables. If they wanna move cargo around, they can do that.


Tatterdemalion wrote:
crosswiredmind wrote:
Brutal is wonky. Instead of 1d12 Brutal 2 it should have been 1d10+2 - same thing when all is said and done.

Yeah, but 1d12 Brutal 3 would be 1d9+3 -- and we have no d9 to roll.

But I also agree it's a bit wonky -- this is a slightly awkward rule to implement, and rather contrary to the 4e philosophy of streamlining at every opportunity.

Couldn't you just implement a house rule to make no extra rolls?

Ex: When a brutal weapon would ordinarily be re-rolled instead round up to the minimum level of damage.

The Exchange

The FR stuff made me Trollish and in a foul mood.

This book made me happy and summoned my leprechaun.

Great book. Consumables for the win!

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