pres man |
You are being extremely precious, if you don't mind me saying. No one was asking about your sex life. And if it is such a big deal, why did you answer the question (which was a perfectly satisfactory answer, by the way - the general point isn't aimed specifically at you)? And making a big deal of it betrays a continued sense of defensiveness.
I notice you have avoided actually giving a reason why the question is valid in the first place.
BigDaddyG |
Dragnmoon wrote:Wicht wrote:Both responses are a churlish.I had to look up that word..;-)
I agree the call for to go somewhere else is unwarranted.
That said the flying hatred poo has not been one sided.
Does that even matter? This is the 4e board. Do you expect the people here to welcome all of the poop being flung at them just because they play 4e?
If you come here to fling poo at 4e then you should not be shocked when that poo is flung back at you.
A 4e board on the Paizo website full of Pathfinder fans...You should not be shocked when the initial poo is flung. I will go on to say that once said poo has been flung, flinging it back does not set a very good example for your argument here. Not saying that you personally are flinging the poo.
I will agree with you however that the poo shouldn't have been flung in the first place BUT it's a two way street. Don't say or act like the 4e fans here on the 4e boards are innocent. There are just as many poo-flingers from both sides.
It's pretty sad that the gaming community has come to this really. I don't like 4e but I'm content to let it's fans play their game. What I will say is shame on WotC. It's not 4e but the way they've conducted themselves in presenting it to the community I think that has caused the split.
Aubrey the Malformed |
You are being extremely precious, if you don't mind me saying. No one was asking about your sex life. And if it is such a big deal, why did you answer the question (which was a perfectly satisfactory answer, by the way - the general point isn't aimed specifically at you)? And making a big deal of it betrays a continued sense of defensiveness.
I notice you have avoided actually giving a reason why the question is valid in the first place.
Well, that comes a few post above, but to reiterate:
I don't think that it is illegitimate to ask, in a spirit of enquiry, why someone who wants to play 4e would frequent the board of a company that doesn't support the product, and is actively trying to undermine it with a rival product, and has a community that is probably, on balance, pretty anti-4e. At first blush, it seems a bit odd. And the reply was likewise enlightening - Paizo sells 4e products and the Pathfinder stuff in high quality and convertible. It might seem obvious to you but it wasn't particularly to me.
pres man |
I don't think that it is illegitimate to ask, in a spirit of enquiry, why someone who wants to play 4e would frequent the board of a company that doesn't support the product, and is actively trying to undermine it with a rival product, and has a community that is probably, on balance, pretty anti-4e. At first blush, it seems a bit odd. And the reply was likewise enlightening - Paizo sells 4e products and the Pathfinder stuff in high quality and convertible. It might seem obvious to you but it wasn't particularly to me.
And if someone wants that enlightenment, fine, make a thread just about that topic. And instead of asking specific people, why just ask the question genericly as you did above, "why someone who wants to play 4e would frequent the board of a company that doesn't support the product, and is actively trying to undermine it with a rival product, and has a community that is probably, on balance, pretty anti-4e." Asking a specific person is putting that person on the spot and making them feel like they have to justify why they are here. As if their participation in a discussion is less meaningful if they don't have a good reason to be there to begin with and not based on the merits of their arguments.
Fake Healer |
Darn. I thought your ill-advised foray into grammar Nazism blowing up in your face in the last thread meant you were going to quit following me about for a little bit.Pretty please?
Edit: I'm perfectly happy with what I said and the context in which I said it. Why not just link the thread in question? If you're bitter about getting thrashed, let's continue over there, shall we?
I'm not the one who has a cry-baby thread devoted to me, so I don't really see where I got thrashed. There's no bitterness here, only someone trying to point out hypocritical stuff. Unfortunately the hypocrite seems to have decided that in order to prove his point he wants to fight. I don't feel the need to fight, just to point out your hypocrisy.
Aubrey the Malformed |
I don't think that it is illegitimate to ask, in a spirit of enquiry, why someone who wants to play 4e would frequent the board of a company that doesn't support the product, and is actively trying to undermine it with a rival product, and has a community that is probably, on balance, pretty anti-4e. At first blush, it seems a bit odd. And the reply was likewise enlightening - Paizo sells 4e products and the Pathfinder stuff in high quality and convertible. It might seem obvious to you but it wasn't particularly to me.
And if someone wants that enlightenment, fine, make a thread just about that topic. And instead of asking specific people, why just ask the question genericly as you did above, "why someone who wants to play 4e would frequent the board of a company that doesn't support the product, and is actively trying to undermine it with a rival product, and has a community that is probably, on balance, pretty anti-4e." Asking a specific person is putting that person on the spot and making them feel like they have to justify why they are here. As if their participation in a discussion is less meaningful if they don't have a good reason to be there to begin with and not based on the merits of their arguments.
Again, that doesn't really seem like it to me. Even if the person was put on the spot, his hostile reaction was unwarranted given the tone of the question. And I don't think the bend-over-backwards ettiquette you seem to be suggesting is necessary to ask a single question, and would be more likely to create flaming than less.
In fact, as I recall, the individual asked was someone who was suggesting that the Pathfinder products were not much good, rather than expressing a neutral or positive one. So the question was legitimate in the context and in the thread itself. And if you post your opinions on a public board, is it totally beyond the pale to be asked to justify your opinions once in a while, or at least have them queried?
Heathansson |
Gary Teter's email is on this page. You can email him if somebody's being mean to you and driving you away.
pres man |
In fact, as I recall, the individual asked was someone who was suggesting that the Pathfinder products were not much good, rather than expressing a neutral or positive one. So the question was legitimate in the context and in the thread itself. And if you post your opinions on a public board, is it totally beyond the pale to be asked to justify your opinions once in a while, or at least have them queried?
"I don't think the products are that good."
"Oh, why are you on this site?"
Sorry those are two unrelated issues. Justifing the opinion for thinking the products are not much good is not the same as having to justify your presence to begin with. One is challenging the argument, the other is challenging the arguer.
But whatever.
Set |
There are still threads wallowing on the board, right here in this 4E section, in which any fan of 4E could be posting, rather than perpetuating this petty divisive edition war stuff.
Anyone? Buehler?
Post in threads that contribute, and not in obvious baiting threads wearing +5 troll-attractor armor like '4E not D&D? I beg to differ.' and the problem goes away.
All threads dealing with 4E, and ideas for adding stuff or questions about how to use stuff in *that edition,* not threads devoted to picking fights or attacking other posters, like this one is.
What's so hard about enjoying 4E and *talking about it?* What's so hard about following the messageboard rules and not posting attacks on other posters, no matter what edition of the game they like?
Just play the game, of your choice, and enjoy it. If somebody else doesn't like what you like, accept that there are other people out there who may not actually agree with everything you've ever said, thought or felt in your life, and move on.
You can't 'clean up the boards' by censoring other people. You can only control yourself.
carmachu |
carmachu wrote:Because you cant disagree with 4e on WoTC boards? So you cant let your dipleasure be known there?Why bother to do it here? No one here can do anything about it. Threads like this wouldn't even be necessary if people would stop using the 4E thread to vent their anger at WotC.
Because its a discussion board? Exchange ideas gets done here?
The cartoon is one that has to do with editions....and since you cant "discuss" it there.
*shrug* I'll cede there are many trolls on the 4e boards, and the back and forth with the 3.5
But the cartoon seems a legit dicussion on 4e....
bugleyman |
bugleyman wrote:I'm not the one who has a cry-baby thread devoted to me, so I don't really see where I got thrashed. There's no bitterness here, only someone trying to point out hypocritical stuff. Unfortunately the hypocrite seems to have decided that in order to prove his point he wants to fight. I don't feel the need to fight, just to point out your hypocrisy.
Darn. I thought your ill-advised foray into grammar Nazism blowing up in your face in the last thread meant you were going to quit following me about for a little bit.Pretty please?
Edit: I'm perfectly happy with what I said and the context in which I said it. Why not just link the thread in question? If you're bitter about getting thrashed, let's continue over there, shall we?
I finished with you. In the past few days, you've called me:
Stupid
Ignorant (Grammar rant)
A cry baby
Immature ("the kind of person who would say...")
None of which has any relevance to the topic at hand. You've used just about every logical fallacy in the book, and worst of all, you just don't know when to quit.
So, in clear violation of the code of conduct, which you have yourself ignored several times, I leave you with the following:
You sir, are an idiot.
Sebastian Bella Sara Charter Superscriber |
Oi. This Fakey-Bugley war bums me out. It's one thing for a bastard like me to throw down with anyone and everyone, it's quite another to see two fairly moderate and respectful posters get entangled in such a way. I don't think it's going to be resolved by recanting how you each got here, but I would suggest that you might be locking horns unnecessarily. Neither of you are editionistas/trolls. I know you each to be decent, and I'm surprised that you seem to see the other as a raving a~~@&%$.
Dragnmoon |
It's one thing for a bastard like me to throw down with anyone and everyone, .
I feel left out and Unwanted... You have never thrown down with me..:-(...
Aubrey the Malformed |
Oi. This Fakey-Bugley war bums me out. It's one thing for a bastard like me to throw down with anyone and everyone, it's quite another to see two fairly moderate and respectful posters get entangled in such a way. I don't think it's going to be resolved by recanting how you each got here, but I would suggest that you might be locking horns unnecessarily. Neither of you are editionistas/trolls. I know you each to be decent, and I'm surprised that you seem to see the other as a raving a*~**@*.
Yeah, it's crazy - there are some people who don't actually like me and you!
Tarren Dei RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 |
Tarren Dei wrote:I'm a little annoyed at Bugleyman's suggestion that those of us who stay out of these discussions are condoning 4e-bashing...That makes no sense...
I agree, but here it is:
At the risk of appearing melodramatic, a few are driving those among us who chose the "wrong" system away, and the rest are assenting (f by nothing more than their silence) to this witch hunt.
(Would any of the witches on the board care to comment on bugleyman's trivializing of historic discrimination against your religion?)
Seriously, bugleyman, you may have been criticized by a handful of posters but you've turned around and criticized all Paizonians in response.
Dragnmoon |
Dragnmoon wrote:Sebastian wrote:It's one thing for a bastard like me to throw down with anyone and everyone, .I feel left out and Unwanted... You have never thrown down with me..:-(...It's overrated.
You can have my #1 slot; it's meh on a grande scale.
So It is kind of boring being Hated by Sebastian?
Dragnmoon |
Do you like 4e? I'll be your enemy.
No, At this time I do not Like 4e. But that may change when PhB II comes out.
I Absolutely hate the choices of classes at this point...and I am an Eberron fan...
Does that qualify me?
Heathansson |
Heathansson wrote:Do you like 4e? I'll be your enemy.No, At this time I do not Like 4e. But that may change when PhB II comes out.
I Absolutely hate the choices of classes at this point...and I am an Eberron fan...
Does that qualify me?
Yeah, I'm playing Eberron so I can't wallop you over that.
Are you voting for Obama?Dragnmoon |
Dragnmoon wrote:Heathansson wrote:Do you like 4e? I'll be your enemy.No, At this time I do not Like 4e. But that may change when PhB II comes out.
I Absolutely hate the choices of classes at this point...and I am an Eberron fan...
Does that qualify me?
Yeah, I'm playing Eberron so I can't wallop you over that.
Are you voting for Obama?
I have not Decided yet... But my Wife is voting McCain.
Tarren Dei RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 |
Dragnmoon |
Hey! I like Palladium. Lotsa people diss on Palladium, but I don't make a big stink about it. Maybe you hate Rifts?
Hmmm.. that one is hard... I absolutely Hate the Palladium rules.. But one of the best stories of any RPG game of it's genre is Rifts.
Dragnmoon |
crosswiredmind wrote:That would make you a gamer.What I wanna know is the love/hate status of those, like me, that currently play 3.5, 4e, and PFRPG.
What list am I on?
I Hate Gamers!!!!!!!!
Yes I have a very low self esteem of myself :-(
Trey |
Tarren Dei wrote:crosswiredmind wrote:That would make you a gamer.What I wanna know is the love/hate status of those, like me, that currently play 3.5, 4e, and PFRPG.
What list am I on?
I Hate Gamers!!!!!!!!
Yes I have a very low self esteem of myself :-(
I hate self-hating gamers AND the people who hate them! >:-}
Dennis da Ogre |
So...there seems to be a common theme emerging: If you express dislike of people using this forum as a cesspit for their hatred of 4E, you are told in so many words that "if you don't like it, just go someplace else." This comment is popping up more and more, and, even worse, it is going largely unchallenged.
I don't spend much time on the 4e boards but I find it shameful that people still come here and harp on the folks who chose to go with 4e.
Regardless of our personal feelings on 4th edition and Wizards of the Coast coming here and crapping on peoples conversations just because they want to play 4th edition is childish and just flat out trolling. I am usually against highly moderated forums but in this case it's just gotten ridiculous.
Grow up people, even if you feel that Wizards of the Coast screwed over D&D that is Wizards of the Coast, the people on this board are gamers just like you and I and deserve a space here on Paizo's boards to discuss 4e in relative peace.
Tarren Dei RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 |
bugleyman wrote:So...there seems to be a common theme emerging: If you express dislike of people using this forum as a cesspit for their hatred of 4E, you are told in so many words that "if you don't like it, just go someplace else." This comment is popping up more and more, and, even worse, it is going largely unchallenged.I don't spend much time on the 4e boards but I find it shameful that people still come here and harp on the folks who chose to go with 4e.
Regardless of our personal feelings on 4th edition and Wizards of the Coast coming here and crapping on peoples conversations just because they want to play 4th edition is childish and just flat out trolling. I am usually against highly moderated forums but in this case it's just gotten ridiculous.
Grow up people, even if you feel that Wizards of the Coast screwed over D&D that is Wizards of the Coast, the people on this board are gamers just like you and I and deserve a space here on Paizo's boards to discuss 4e in relative peace.
Please provide a link to one of the threads you speak of.
Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Tarren Dei RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 |
Sebastian Bella Sara Charter Superscriber |