+3 class skills is too much!

[Steven Hume]

ok i been making some PCs and NPC for PF for a week now and i am noticing now SO MUCH MORE bonuses are given for class skills. Multiclass PCs get the best deal, u add one rank in a class skill and get +3 then can add more ranks later and u always got that +3 to start off me, i think there needs to be some limiting factor.

I am testing this: each rank gives you a +1 bonus up till +3 at 3 ranks but only when the skill is a class skill, so if a 1st lvl wizard puts 1 point into spellcraft he gets +1(so +2 total) if he takes a lvl in fighter and puts a point in spellcraft he still gets a +1 and has 2 ranks(for +3) then wizard two more lvls and adds 2 points giving him a total of 4 ranks and +3. this why it stops taking 1 rank in as many class skills as can find(say rogue 1/anything else) then gaining the +3 for a simple 1 rank.

I know that it means that PCs at 1st lvl dont have a total of +4 in a skill but if u think this is a bad idea then what else can we do with this class skill +3 bonus???

[hogarth]

I don't really see what the problem is. Characters still can't max out any more skills than they could before, and a +3 bonus on a skill that's not maxed out doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

Can you come up with a specific example that you think is overpowered?

[Steven Hume]

well here is some of the talk of my players about it

http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1767

but when you look at it over 2 classes say rogue and druid

over 3 lvls (r2/d1) you would get 58 points with PF and 46 with 3.5 +12 points is alot. the problem is all u need is to put 1 point in a class skill to get +3 so why wouldnt you just put 1 point in every class skill first then bump them up later, since you dont have cross class skills once u get that +3 you just happily put more ranks into even if not ur class skill anymore(say by changing classes)

[Shadowborn]

The math works out to be the same as 3.5 though...

In 3.5, you got (your base skill points + Int bonus)X4 at first level, and could put no more than 4 skill points in any class skill (level +3).

In Pathfinder, you get (base skill points +Int bonus) at first level. You can put a maximum of 1 point per HD in any given skill. Class skills receive a +3 bonus, meaning that your ranks will be...4, which is exactly what you'd have as a 3.5 1st level character.

And, since the +3 is a static bonus, you'll always have a maximum of your HD+3 in any given class skill.

[Epic Meepo]

I don't see any problem with the new skill system.

Steven Hume wrote:

+12 points is alot.

Not when it has to be divided evenly between three skills. A few skills at +4 are a big deal for a brief moment, but get very insignificant very fast.

Steven Hume wrote:

why wouldnt you just put 1 point in every class skill first then bump them up later...

Because even multiclassed characters don't get enough skill points to max out every class skill, since adding a new class also adds new class skills.

[hogarth]

Steven Hume wrote:

but when you look at it over 2 classes say rogue and druid

over 3 lvls (r2/d1) you would get 58 points with PF and 46 with 3.5 +12 points is alot. the problem is all u need is to put 1 point in a class skill to get +3 so why wouldnt you just put 1 point in every class skill first then bump them up later, since you dont have cross class skills once u get that +3 you just happily put more ranks into even if not ur class skill anymore(say by changing classes)

The only place where the difference between having 0 ranks and having 1 rank in a skill would be significant would be at low levels; by the time you hit level 10 (say) and skill DCs start approaching 30, the difference between a +1 modifier and a +4 modifier is insignificant. I admit that it's easier to have a sort of "jack of all trades" at level 2 or 3, but you'll eventually be "master of none" (or at best, master of the same number of skills as you were in 3.5).

[Karui Kage]

I hope the OP remembers that you don't get x4 skill points at first level now, and that you can only put a max number of ranks into each skill (no matter if its class or not) equal to your level.