The Drow

[LazarX]

Drow are essentially transformed elves in Pathfinder.

For simplicities sake this is how I'd do it.

Simply they're elves. If you want them as level none adjustment characters they're simply elves who've gone a radical attitude and skin tone adjustment. If nothing else is given to them that would keep them from the players who just want free funky powers at first level. Maybe give them a boosted darkvision in exchange for light sensitivity. Or just trade thier low light vision for darkvision.

As for the signature drow abilities they should be reserved for a Drow racial class, say about 3 levels for a base Drow class with perhaps a later Paragon class for really good stuf. I do think the male/female stat and favored class difference should be left behind with TSR's drow.

[wspatterson]

LazarX wrote:

Drow are essentially transformed elves in Pathfinder.

For simplicities sake this is how I'd do it.

Simply they're elves. If you want them as level none adjustment characters they're simply elves who've gone a radical attitude and skin tone adjustment. If nothing else is given to them that would keep them from the players who just want free funky powers at first level. Maybe give them a boosted darkvision in exchange for light sensitivity. Or just trade thier low light vision for darkvision.

As for the signature drow abilities they should be reserved for a Drow racial class, say about 3 levels for a base Drow class with perhaps a later Paragon class for really good stuf. I do think the male/female stat and favored class difference should be left behind with TSR's drow.

Pfff. Where's the fun? If you want to play a wierd looking elf with nothing that really distinguishes them, play a night elf.

[Kyrinn S. Eis]

This post has two parts:

1). Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary Half-Drow Template (OGL):

A half-drow uses all the base creature’s abilities and
statistics in addition to those noted here.
* Size and Type: Size and type are unchanged, but
the creature gains the drow and elf subtypes
if the base creature does not already have them.
* Special Attacks: Th e half-drow retains all the base creature’s
special attacks and gains those described here.
* Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): 1/day–dancing lights, darkness, faerie
fire. Caster level equals half-drow’s character level.

* Special Qualities: The half-drow retains all the base creature’s
special qualities and gains those described here.
* Darkvision (Ex): A half-drow has darkvision to a range of
60 feet. If the base creature already has darkvision, its range
increases by +20 feet (maximum 120 feet).
* Drow Blood (Ex): Half-drow are considered to be members
of the base creature’s race and of the drow and elf races for
the purpose of racially specifi c special abilities and eff ects.
* Immunity to Sleep (Ex): Half-drow are immune to sleep
magic and eff ects.
* Spell Resistance (Ex): A half-drow has spell resistance equal to
either the base creature’s spell resistance (if any) or 9 +
base creature’s character level, whichever is higher.
* Will Save Bonus (Ex): A half-drow receives a +1 racial
bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like
abilities.

* Abilities: Change from the base creature as follows:
Dex +2, Con –2 (minimum 1), Int +2.
* Skills: A half-drow gains a +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and
Spot checks.

Organization: Solitary, pair, family (3–5), or clan (6–36).
Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +1, or +0 if abilities
overlap signifi cantly.
Alignment: Usually chaotic neutral.
Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2.

---

2). Green Ronin's Half-Drow PC write-up from their Advanced Race Codex: Half-Elves (OGL):

Half-Drow Racial Traits
• Medium: As Medium creatures, half-drow have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Half-drow base land speed is 30 feet.
• Immunity to sleep spells and effects.
• Resistant to Magic (Ex): Half-drow gain a +1 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like effects.
• Spell Resistance (Ex): A half-drow gains spell resistance equal to 9 + her Hit Dice.
• Darkvision: Half-drow can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and half-drow can function just fine with no light at all.
• +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• Drow Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-drow is considered a drow.
• Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, and Undercommon. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
• Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, darkness, and faerie fire. Caster level equals the half-drow’s class levels. The save DC is Charisma-based.
• Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass half-drow takes an experience point penalty, her highest-level class does not count.
• Level Adjustment: +1. A half-drow has an effective character level of 1 plus class levels, so that a 1st-level half-drow ranger would have an ECL of 2 (the equivalent of a 2nd-level half-elf ranger). ECL is the sum of the race’s level adjustment, racial Hit Dice, and character levels.

---

I used the latter for my PC and Ylavrdyn, as the Pathfinder Elf stat-boost ('power creep' as some call it) provided the same Ability bonus as the +2 version -- meaning that Pathfinder Elves are already +1 EL/LA creatures (by GR's standards).

Perhaps this comparison helps the current discussion?

[KaeYoss]

They're elvish they are Drow
Yes elvish are the Drow
They were once abandoned
And want revenge now

They came from below t'earth
To watch Ragnarok's birth
They're selfish
They're elvish they are Drow, Drow, Drow, Drow
Drow, Drow, Drow, Drow
Drow

Before Campaign is done
Their plan will be unfurled
By drawing in the sun
They'll devastate the world.

They're elvish they are Drow
Yes elvish are the Drow
Their twilight campaign
Is easy to explain.

To prove their elvish worth
They'll overthrow the Earth
They're selfish
They're elvish they are Drow, Drow, Drow, Drow
Drow, Drow, Drow, Drow
Drow

[The Wraith]

As a curiosity: how do you pronounce DROW ?

...Dr-Ah-Ou (as the Baldur's Gate games do)?

...Dr-Oh (as in the verb "to draw")?

...or what?

[Lazaro]

Drow sounds like cow.

[Leobardis]

KaeYoss wrote:

They're elvish they are Drow

Yes elvish are the Drow
They were once abandoned
And want revenge now

They came from below t'earth
To watch Ragnarok's birth
They're selfish
They're elvish they are Drow, Drow, Drow, Drow
Drow, Drow, Drow, Drow
Drow

Before Campaign is done
Their plan will be unfurled
By drawing in the sun
They'll devastate the world.

They're elvish they are Drow
Yes elvish are the Drow
Their twilight campaign
Is easy to explain.

To prove their elvish worth
They'll overthrow the Earth
They're selfish
They're elvish they are Drow, Drow, Drow, Drow
Drow, Drow, Drow, Drow
Drow

NARF, poit!

[KaeYoss]

Lazaro wrote:

Drow sounds like cow.

Exactly. That's the official one as well.

[Xaaon of Xen'Drik]

I have to disagree, Xen'drik drow are the best sub-race EVER!!! ;)

[Misery]

Not meaning to beat a dead horse but I know some of the Pathfinder drow have dark purple skin and seen some covers where they have a bluish tint to their flesh tone as well. Question is, does anyone know if those are the ONLY colors they get or do they have a more wide range now? Like dark purples, blues, AND blacks? Or are they nixing the ebony skin tone all together?

[Set]

Drow have been depicted as blue-ish black, brownish-black and shiny blackety-black-black in the past, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them appear in various other dark shades, such as dark red or dark purple.

Dark red drow, along the lines of the Irekei of ShadowBane, would be massively cool...

[Karanidia]

Montalve wrote:

Misery wrote:

Drow: +2 Dex, +2 Cha, - 2 Con

Favored Class: Rogue and Wizard(Male)/Cleric (Female)
Darkvision 120 feet (might be an issue still since its double a dwarves)

sounds fine

but if you keep them with darkvision 120 feet, then they should get the -1 in all rolls in sunlight, only fair

Misery wrote:

Spell Like Abilities: I've been thinking over this one. I know all the core races got a nice boost in all around stuff so we might be able to keep dancing lights, faerie fire, and darkness. OR, maybe they have to choose between the three? If THATS the case maybe include levitation as a possible choice, iono.

NO

dancing lights and Faerie Fire at most
Darkness is too powerful, Levite too... no to these two if you want to bring them to the level of core clases0

Misery wrote:

Spell Resistance: Get rid of...

Definitively, i will give them a +1 vs magic in general

Weapons: No they are not the same than elves... think in caves, the spaces are narrower, you can use a longbow or longsword in there...

rapier, hand crossbow, and any nifty evil looking Dagger they can get

maybe just maybe +2 to poison making and poison resistance

I'm a Drow Bard, and I approve this message.

[Karanidia]

Misery wrote:

Not meaning to beat a dead horse but I know some of the Pathfinder drow have dark purple skin and seen some covers where they have a bluish tint to their flesh tone as well. Question is, does anyone know if those are the ONLY colors they get or do they have a more wide range now? Like dark purples, blues, AND blacks? Or are they nixing the ebony skin tone all together?

Other races have variant skin tones and such, why can't the Drow?

This makes sense to me when you consider region, weather, local foods, more/less exposure to surface area, etc.

[Misery]

Oh I'm a huge fan of allowing multiple skin tones. Gives more flavor. I was just hoping that they weren't dropping the OLD skin tone all together and just going blues and purples. I like ebony and gray skin tones too is all.

[KaeYoss]

Misery wrote:

Oh I'm a huge fan of allowing multiple skin tones. Gives more flavor.

Black ones are teriyaki, purple ones fajita?

[Misery]

KaeYoss wrote:

Misery wrote:

Oh I'm a huge fan of allowing multiple skin tones. Gives more flavor.

Black ones are teriyaki, purple ones fajita?

...mmmmm teriyaki ...

[Karanidia]

Misery wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

Misery wrote:

Oh I'm a huge fan of allowing multiple skin tones. Gives more flavor.

Black ones are teriyaki, purple ones fajita?

...mmmmm teriyaki ...

no no, Red is Faijta... silly psychotic jester.

[Misery]

Karanidia wrote:

Misery wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

Misery wrote:

Oh I'm a huge fan of allowing multiple skin tones. Gives more flavor.

Black ones are teriyaki, purple ones fajita?

...mmmmm teriyaki ...

no no, Red is Faijta... silly psychotic jester.

Either way, I knew the drow were tasty.

[Pendagast]

I have much hate for the drow, i always liked tolkiens take on things, that the orcs were the dark twisted once elves.

I dont like the addition of drow since the 80s when they popped up

[Dave Young 992]

Pendagast wrote:

I have much hate for the drow, i always liked tolkiens take on things, that the orcs were the dark twisted once elves.

I dont like the addition of drow since the 80s when they popped up

I remember the 2e MM described orc language as a sort of corrupted or mixed elvish. I think there was a hint that they had some elvish origin.

I don't have the book anymore, :( so if somebody does, could you find the exact quote? I like the Tolkein take on them, too.

FR has a goddess of good drow. Elistraee (sp?), I think.

Drow CAN be a little cheesy, but they don't have to be. I played a short adventure where we were all drow, and it was a blast. The worst part for my sorcerer was trying to buff party members once the fight started. Lowering your SR to accept a spell in the heat of battle is a royal pain!

As said already, drow sell, so they're here to stay.

[Pendagast]

Dave Young 992 wrote:

Pendagast wrote:

I have much hate for the drow, i always liked tolkiens take on things, that the orcs were the dark twisted once elves.

I dont like the addition of drow since the 80s when they popped up

I remember the 2e MM described orc language as a sort of corrupted or mixed elvish. I think there was a hint that they had some elvish origin.

I don't have the book anymore, :( so if somebody does, could you find the exact quote? I like the Tolkein take on them, too.

FR has a goddess of good drow. Elistraee (sp?), I think.

Drow CAN be a little cheesy, but they don't have to be. I played a short adventure where we were all drow, and it was a blast. The worst part for my sorcerer was trying to buff party members once the fight started. Lowering your SR to accept a spell in the heat of battle is a royal pain!

As said already, drow sell, so they're here to stay.

yes, YEARS ago we had an all drow party, we called them the storm lords (I think It had to do with the last name of several of the characters or something) It was a blast it was a semi-mostly evil party (chaotic neutral was the nice guy) and the DM played the dangers of the sun light world to us in the same way he would surface dwellers going to the underdark. It was a blast with characters like fighter/magic/user theives and cleric/assassins.

We were all male characters, except one, who left the main drow society because were were tired of being oppressed by the matriarchy.
One of the players (the female cleric/assassin) ended up with a helm of opposite alignment and became a paladin along the way. We liked it so much, that we recreated the same group in a live action role playing game where we all dressed up like our old drow characters (they were called dark elves, not drow in that game) and "Darksinger" my drow bard/assassin was reborn! (w00t) he was a blast to play, spock glue on ears andblack face paint included!!

Ironically, I bought the second darkness adventure path and companion a few hours ago.

I have much hate for the drow. But we are going to run it. 1) my gaming group are newbs and know nothing about drow (which makes things cool) 2) PAthfinders reasoning for the existance of drow is totally different and preeeeeety cool and if I have to see where thehy are going with this.
3) no lolth and queen of spiders junk
4) I .... just...can't...stay away!

[Eric Stipe]

How bout
Elf Racial Traits
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma (i did this for normal elves in my world too), –2 Constitution: Elves are nimble, and sure of themselves, but their form is frail.
Medium: Elves are Medium creatures, and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Elves have a base speed of 30 feet.
Darkvision: 60'
Daylight blindness: Drow suffer -2 to all rolls made in daylight.
Keen Senses: Drow receive a +2 bonus on sight- and sound-based Perception checks. They can make a Perception check to spot a secret or concealed door if they pass within 10 feet, regardless of whether or not they are actively looking.
Drow Resistances: Drow are immune to magic sleep effects and get a +1 racial saving throw bonus against spells or spell like abilities.
Drow Magic: Drow with a Charisma of 11 or higher also gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, Fairy fire. The caster level for these effects is equal to the Drow’s level. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell’s level + the drow’s Charisma modifier.
Weapon Familiarity: Drow are proficient with Hand Crossbows, Shortswords, and rapiers, and treat any weapon with the word “drow” in its name as a martial weapon.
Languages: Elves begin play speaking Undercommon and Drow. Drow with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc.
Favored Class: The favored class of drow is cleric or Sorcerer (elves don't get wizard as a favorite either). This choice must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed.

I changed the stuff to favored sorcerer cuz i see elves as naturally magical, ie sorcerers. only humans would turn something so natural into a "study".

Bloodline DROW
Class Skill: Stealth
Bonus Spells: Sleep, Darkness, Nondetection, Fear, Passwall, Shadow Walk, Finger of Death, Mind Blank, Energy Drain
Bonus Feats: Daylight adaption, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Stealth), Blindfighting, Silent Spell, Still Spell, Improved Initiiative, Mobility.
Bloodline Powers:
Darkvision: at 1st level +60 feet to darkvision
Drow Resistances: at 3rd level, you gain +2 vs poison and +2 vs all spells, and spell like abilities at 9 these bonuses increase to +4
Darkforce Blast (Su): At 9th level, you can unleash a blast of Dark/Force power once per day. This 20-foot-radius burst does 1d6 points of damage of your energy type per caster level. Those caught in the area of your blast receive a Reflex save for half damage. Creatures that fail their save gain vulnerability to your Spells for 1 round. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Constitution modifier. At 9th level, you can use this ability once per day. At 17th level, you can use this ability twice per day. At 20th level, you can use this ability three times per day. This power has a range of 60 feet. This energy counts as both darkness and force.
Spell Resistance: at 15th you gain spell resistance 10 + your sorcerer level
Soul of Drow: at 20th, Immunity to poison and DR 10/cold iron. Your Darkvision works in any type of darkness not just normal dark

i'm not sure about every level of the bloodline but it would work nicely i think.

[Apostle of Gygax]

Vulcan Stormwrath wrote:

I say forget Drow altogether. Ghost Elves!!!

Best. Elven. Subrace. Ever.

Unless you consider Shadow Elves.

[Pendagast]

Is anyone playing second darkness?

Do Drow weapons and armor crumble in sun like the days of yore or not? There is nothing in the modules about their gear I can find.

And Drow rhymes with Show, according to pathfinder.

[David Fryer]

Pendagast wrote:

Is anyone playing second darkness?

Do Drow weapons and armor crumble in sun like the days of yore or not? There is nothing in the modules about their gear I can find.

And Drow rhymes with Show, according to pathfinder.

No they don't crumble in sun light. James addressed that somewhere, I just don't remember where.

[wspatterson]

Pendagast wrote:

Is anyone playing second darkness?

Do Drow weapons and armor crumble in sun like the days of yore or not? There is nothing in the modules about their gear I can find.

And Drow rhymes with Show, according to pathfinder.

And I've heard that Gary Gygax said it rhymes with how.

[Lazaro]

Actually from what I remember, drow has always sounded like cow.

[Pendagast]

Lazaro wrote:

Actually from what I remember, drow has always sounded like cow.

Excerpt from second darkness "shadow in the sky" forward.

Spoiler:

Rhymes with Bow
There’s more going on in Second Darkness than falling
stars, and when we at Paizo were initially casting about for
ideas for the plot for our third Adventure Path, the skies
above were the furthest things from our minds. We were
looking downward, into the depths of our still-developing
world’s crust, to the endless maze of caves and tunnels
below. Other game worlds have their own names for this
mysterious and dangerous realm, but in Golarion, it’s
known as the Darklands. Why would we seek out villains
down there? To anyone who’s played RPGs for any real
length of time, the answer’s pretty obvious.
Because that’s where the drow live.
There are certain monsters that can be considered
“mainstream” these days—creatures that even nongamers
seem immediately to recognize on sight. Dragons
fall into that category for sure, as do vampires and goblins
and trolls and zombies. Relatively few monsters who were
“born” in the game have made this jump. Ask the average
man on the street if he prefers ankhegs over bulettes, and
you’re likely just to get a weird look.
The drow are different, though. Sure, they have roots in
Scottish folklore, but their incarnation as evil undergrounddwelling
elves was first popularized by Gary Gygax back in
the early days of the game,........

James Jacobs
Editor-in-Chief
[e-mail]

[Arakhor]

Well then, that is obviously Mr. Jacobs' opinion. As far as I am aware, the pronunciation is and always has been to rhyme with 'cow'.

[Pendagast]

Arakhor wrote:

Well then, that is obviously Mr. Jacobs' opinion. As far as I am aware, the pronunciation is and always has been to rhyme with 'cow'.

Actually I think it was more Mr. Jacobs sense of humor, seeing as 'bow' can be pronounced longBOW or after the show take a deep BOW.