Errata and Typos (Ch2 and Ch3)


Ability Scores and Races

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Welcome to the Errata and Typos thread for the Ability Scores and Races chapters. If you spot any typos or rules that need errata in Chapter 2 or Chapter 3, please post them to this thread. Note that this is not a thread for discussing rules changes, only obvious mistakes or unclear rules. We have done our best to make these chapters as clean as possible, but 10,000 eyes are better than 12. Thanks for your help.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


I believe that on Page 7 under 'Intelligence (INT)' the phrase 'bonus languages' should be used specifically since it is referred to that way elsewhere in the book.

Liberty's Edge

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

We have done our best to make these chapters as clean as possible, but 10,000 eyes are better than 12. Thanks for your help.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

10,000 eyes ....

Sounds like a really cool name for a movie ... or a rock band.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Marc Radle 81 wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

We have done our best to make these chapters as clean as possible, but 10,000 eyes are better than 12. Thanks for your help.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

10,000 eyes ....

Sounds like a really cool name for a movie ... or a rock band.

Ah but where we are going you wont need eyes to see......


While not specifically a typo, you may want to change the flavor text to the Backswing feat. It really no longer matches the functional effect of the feat.

This is mostly a nitpick, but the text did stick out to me. Overall, this is looking good.


(Note: I'm a noob, and would love clarification if I'm just misunderstanding something...)

Would it be possible to add "per day" to table 2-3, to read "Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells Per Day"
This was one of the things that confused me terribly during my first few levels. Several places mention "bonus spells", but this chart is specifically for bonus spells per day, right?

P7: Wisdom - There's an extra space between the bullet point and the word "Heal"


Someone may have already spotted this, but on page 6, it says:

The ability that governs bonus spells depends on what type of spellcaster your character is: Intelligence for wizards, Wisdom for clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers, or Charisma for sorcerers and bards.

Paladins now use Charisma for spellcasting, so should paladins be included with sorcerers and bards?

On page 7, it also mentions paladins getting bonus spells based on their Wisdom in the description for that ability.

Chobbly

Liberty's Edge

Under Intelligence, it says that

beta, page 7 wrote:
A creature of humanlike intelligence has a score of at least 3.

Consider modifying that to "a sentient creature." There are plenty of creatures that think in entirely different ways than humans, but have INT scores over 3.


Gnome and dwarf Hatred racial trait does not say how it affects combat maneuvers (not at all? added to CMB? included in CMB?).

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Pg7, the heading for "Dexerity" is spelled wrong. (Missing a "t".)

Someone mentioned an extra space before the word "Healing" in the Wisdom section, so I'll add that there appears to be a space missing from in front of "Appraise" in the Intelligence section. (It's weird that a space would be *missing*, since I would think that a style was applied to the paragraph to keep them all the same!)

I'm still reading, so I'll be back. Great work so far!

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I'll throw this out before I forget: The Ranger's Two-Weapon Combat Style still lists the (axed) Deft Shield as a possible bonus feat. This probably should be changed to Improved Shield Bash.

Sovereign Court

I made a post on the general discussion area about bards. in the weapon and armor proficiencies it says that a bard can cast spells while wearing light armor and shields, then it goes on to say that they incur spell failure while wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or using shields. This makes it really unclear wether or not a bard can use a shield without incurring spell failure penalties. Can they use a shield with light armor but not with medium armor. If they wear medium armor do they add their shield to the ASF which makes no sense if they can use it with light armor why does it suddenly go crazy when added to medium? The part about shields is just really unclear as it stands.


p. 6

Determine Bonuses

Each ability, after changes made because of race, has
a modifier ranging from –5 to +5.

I believe after should be before and -5 to +5 should be -4 to +4, considering ability scores can be higher than 20 depending on additional races, such as half-dragons.


Insert Neat Username Here wrote:
Under Intelligence, it says that
beta, page 7 wrote:
A creature of humanlike intelligence has a score of at least 3.
Consider modifying that to "a sentient creature." There are plenty of creatures that think in entirely different ways than humans, but have INT scores over 3.

I'm also a little concerned about the fact that half-orcs are sometimes not even sentient, by that standard. In fact, close to one in fifty wouldn't qualify as sentient, assuming 3d6 for attributes.

Of course, I've always been a little concerned by Intelligence penalties for half-orcs (and orcs).

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
apotheon wrote:
Insert Neat Username Here wrote:
Under Intelligence, it says that
beta, page 7 wrote:
A creature of humanlike intelligence has a score of at least 3.
Consider modifying that to "a sentient creature." There are plenty of creatures that think in entirely different ways than humans, but have INT scores over 3.

I'm also a little concerned about the fact that half-orcs are sometimes not even sentient, by that standard. In fact, close to one in fifty wouldn't qualify as sentient, assuming 3d6 for attributes.

Of course, I've always been a little concerned by Intelligence penalties for half-orcs (and orcs).

The language in that section is lifted directly from the SRD, which unfortunately does not include the note on page 11 of the PHB (under "Racial Characteristics") saying that Intelligence (and Intelligence alone) cannot fall below a 3 due to racial ability score modifiers. So it might be worth adding a similar note in either the ability score section or the half-orc entry for Pathfinder.

Also, spotted another error: In the Evil cleric domain description on p. 179 of the Beta, the 8th level ability grants the "evil" weapon property to a weapon. Should be the "unholy" weapon property. The other alignment domains have the correct weapon property names.


tribeof1 wrote:
The language in that section is lifted directly from the SRD, which unfortunately does not include the note on page 11 of the PHB (under "Racial Characteristics") saying that Intelligence (and Intelligence alone) cannot fall below a 3 due to racial ability score modifiers. So it might be worth adding a similar note in either the ability score section or the half-orc entry for Pathfinder.

I find a character with an Intelligence lower than 10 essentially unplayable, anyway -- because I simply cannot effectively portray such a character in roleplaying for very long.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Page 4, Step 1: Ability Scores

I would suggest moving the first sentence to the end of the paragraph and starting the new first sentence with "Ability scores determine...".

Reason:
It will probably read better to have the concept of ability scores introduced before being told where to find information on generating them. This change also makes the paragraph consistent with structure of the other steps.

--------------------------------------

Page 4, Step 7, Paragraph 2

"character" is misspelled.

"The process of advancing your charter..."

--------------------------------------

Page 5, Generating Ability Scores, Modern Method

Suggest changing

"Roll 4d6 and add together the three highest results."

to

"Roll 4d6 and add together the three highest dice."

Reason:
In the current sentence, the word "results" is ambiguous. It could refer to either the value of the individual dice or the sum of all four. A reader may think the latter and then wonder "how many times do I roll the 4d6 before I pick my three highest results?"

It also means you aren't using "result" to mean a different thing in concurrent sentences. (Individual dice in the first and a sum in the second.)

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Page 4:

In the second paragraph under 'Details', I have fouydn two typos. The first is in the third sentence: 'After a few sessions, you character should earn enough experience ..." It should be 'your'.

Later in the same paragraph, 'The process of advancing your charter ...' It should be 'character', I'm sure.


In the armor section pg 343 it states under shadow, improved and shadow, greater: "As Stealth, except it grants a +10 competence bonus on Stealth check."

It should say "As Shadow, except it grants a +10 competence bonus on Stealth check."

Sovereign Court

Are the spells in the PRPG book only there if they are new/replace 3.5 spell? Or were some simply omitted accidentally or to conserve space? For instance, I could not locate the description for the CLONE spell.

Sovereign Court

I actually just posted this as a new thread before I found this one. Lesson learned.

What are a character's starting skill points? Is it simply the value listed in the class description, or does the 3.5 quadruple skills at first level still in effect?

Also, for starting languages, is it still racial starting language(s) plus INT modifier in bonus languages?

On a related note, I like the new Linguistics skill.


When doing my reviews I keep Jason's ideas in mind:
- Improve the Game, Add Options, and Compatibility
I also try and remember Pathfinder is a:
- Generic Fantasy Game, Solid Foundation, Basic Rulebook

The second paragraph of Details on page 4 should include a reference to multi-classing. The line "...except that your ability scores, race, and previous choices concerning class, skills, and feats cannot be changed." Experienced players understand what is implied but new players might not.

Chobbly pointed out the oversight on paladins and Wisdom on pages 6 and 7. For proper parallelism, when adding paladins to the lists of charisma-based spell casters, the entries should read 'bards, paladins, and sorcerers' and not 'sorcerers and bards'.

Under Dexterity on page 7 add "Dexterity checks (for initiative and the like)" to the list.

For simplicity, the last line of Gnome Magic on page 9 could read "The DC for these spells is computed normally."

Scarab Sages

apotheon wrote:
Insert Neat Username Here wrote:
Under Intelligence, it says that
beta, page 7 wrote:
A creature of humanlike intelligence has a score of at least 3.
Consider modifying that to "a sentient creature." There are plenty of creatures that think in entirely different ways than humans, but have INT scores over 3.

I'm also a little concerned about the fact that half-orcs are sometimes not even sentient, by that standard. In fact, close to one in fifty wouldn't qualify as sentient, assuming 3d6 for attributes.

Of course, I've always been a little concerned by Intelligence penalties for half-orcs (and orcs).

I've always taken 3 to be the absolute minimum for PCs even after racial ability scores are applied. I can't remember where I got this tidbit, so it may or may not be the official rule.


Jal Dorak wrote:
I've always taken 3 to be the absolute minimum for PCs even after racial ability scores are applied. I can't remember where I got this tidbit, so it may or may not be the official rule.

Creatures with less than 3 int cannot take classes.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

MAC III wrote:
Or were some simply omitted accidentally or to conserve space?

Many were omitted to save space. In the downloadable version of the Beta (available free), check out the Web Enhancement.


At least many posters that I have seen here are assuming the "purchase" method for determining ability scores, and I think that that is the best method you have presented. Although not exactly a type, then, maybe you should change the order that the methods are listed in in chapter 2 so that they are: Purchase, Modern, Heroic, Classic. In this way, it goes (for the most part) from most-balanced to least-balanced, because rolling is always luck. I'm just not sure which should be first... Modern or Heroic.

I also think that you might want to add a note saying that the game rules assume the use of Purchase, but the other three methods can also be used.

Of course, I don't actually know if you are using the Purchase method as the baseline or not (I just assume such since you use it for Pathfinder Society).

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Errors for chapters 2 & 3 -- I'll repeat some of what's been said; sorry for repetitiveness, but I thought it'd be easier to summarize the corrections all in one place.

Chapter 2: Proofreading/Grammar:
Page 4, under "Step 7," 1st paragraph:

Line 4: the word "are": it appears there is a space between the a and the r. Could just be an issue of line justification, but if not, delete space.

Line 7: Delete "It is best to..." and begin sentence with "Jot..." -- eliminates ambiguous pronoun "it"; strengthens sentence.

Page 4, under "Step 7," 2nd paragraph:

Line 3: Change "you" to "your" -- sentence should read, "After a few sessions, your character..."

Line 6: Change "charter" to "character" -- sentence should read, "...advancing your character works much..."

Page 6, under "Strength (STR)" and similar sections following, 2nd paragraph:

Line 1: "You apply your Strength modifier to:" -- either delete the colon, or insert the words "the following" after "to." Colons do not follow prepositions.

Make this change for all similar sentences in the other ability score descriptions.

Page 7, top of page, "Dexterity" header:

In header, change "Dexerity" to "Dexterity".

Chapter 2: Style/Formatting:
Page 4, under "Step 1," 1st paragraph:

Header: This is really minor, but the "1" is too small and, oddly, next to the colon looks sort of like an "r." In general, the numbers in the font used look too small and some of them drop below the line, and some numbers look larger than others, which by my eye makes them awkward to read. However, I also realize that it's probably a pain to change just the numbers' font or font size. :) Just while I'm nitpicking things to death, I might as well note it.

Lines 3 and 4: Adjust the tracking so two words in a row are not bisected.

Chapter 3: Proofreading/Grammar:
Page 8:
Under "Stonecunning": I'm not sure if this is an accidental omission or an intended game rule. :) Should "Craft and..." be inserted before "Profession"?

Page 10, under "Half-Elf Racial Traits":

In the description of "+2 to One Ability Score": delete the comma between "creation" and "to" -- should read, "...at creation to represent..."

In the description of "Adaptability": delete both commas -- should read, "Half-Elves receive Skill Focus as a bonus feat at 1st level." (The comma's really not needed, but if you're wanting clarity because of the prepositional phrases, you could also rewrite as "At 1st level, Half-Elves receive..." or just delete "at 1st level" since it should be implied.)

Page 11, first paragraph (continuing from previous page):

Line 1 and 2: Delete "It's" and "that" and insert "is what" where "that" was. Sentence should read, "... citizen to slave, their spirit and sense of community is what sets them apart." This improves parallel structure and eliminates ambiguous "it" at beginning of sentence.

===

Hope that is helpful, and not merely nitpicky. :)


Page 112 Grapling hook: "trowing a grappling hook succesfully requires a use rope check...

but the use rope skill has been removed from the game

also in the equipment chapter the thieves tools mention that you take a -2 penalty for not using them, but the skil Disable divice page 60 mentions that you take a -10 penalty or rather the dc goes up by 10 points

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Niels Vallentin Weller 670 wrote:

Page 112 Grapling hook: "trowing a grappling hook succesfully requires a use rope check...

but the use rope skill has been removed from the game

also in the equipment chapter the thieves tools mention that you take a -2 penalty for not using them, but the skil Disable divice page 60 mentions that you take a -10 penalty or rather the dc goes up by 10 points

This is for chapter 2 and 3 only. You might want to save and repost when they get to equipment. :) :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Marc Radle 81 wrote:


10,000 eyes ....

Sounds like a really cool name for a movie ... or a rock band.

This one close enough for you? The Beast with a Million Eyes


The Authority wrote:
Jal Dorak wrote:
I've always taken 3 to be the absolute minimum for PCs even after racial ability scores are applied. I can't remember where I got this tidbit, so it may or may not be the official rule.
Creatures with less than 3 int cannot take classes.

Seems arbitrary. A character with less than 3 sounds interesting, so why not?


p.5 Generating Ability Scores, line 3: "offlexibility" (not sure if that's a pdf quirk or someone missed the space key)


Minkscooter said: p.5 Generating Ability Scores, line 3: "offlexibility" (not sure if that's a pdf quirk or someone missed the space key)

It appears the same way in the print version. Looks like one word.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Typoes I found in the Races section:

page 4, Step 7: Details, Second Paragraph, Fourth Sentence
"The process of advancing your charter [...]" should be character.

page 6, DEXERITY (Dex) should be DEXTERITY

page 7, WISDOM (Wis)
"Heal, Perception, etc." there appears to be an extra space between the Bullet and Heal.

page 8, First Paragraph
"From the stout dwarf ... elf, the races of a Pathfinder RPG" drop the a in front of Pathfinder, it is unnecessary

page 8, Stonecunning
Not sure if this is a typo, but only barbarians lack Profession as a class skill. ::shrug::

page 10, Half-Orcs, last sentence of descriptive paragraph
"[...] and wits serves them best." should be serve them best.

Paizo Employee Creative Director, Starfinder

Not really errata, but perhaps the size penalty to CMB for Small creatures should be added to the Gnome and Halfling race descriptions:

Small: Gnomes (and Halflings) are Small creatures, and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks, but suffer a –1 size penalty to their combat maneuver bonus.

Paizo Employee Creative Director, Starfinder

I saw this brought up as a side comment on another thread, but haven't seen it discussed as errata, so here goes:

Keen Senses: Halflings receive a +2 racial bonus on sound-based Perception checks.

But dwarves, elves, gnomes, and half-elves all get unspecified bonuses on their keen senses.

So either halfling should be changed to an unspecified bonus, or all the other races should be changed to racial bonuses.

Scarab Sages

Unless I missed it somewhere, you don't actually say anywhere in the book what language options you have. There are the bonus languages in the Races section, but there isn't a full list of all the languages anywhere that I could find. Definitely something you want in there, though maybe not in the Races chapter (though still a good option, would probably be better with the Linguistics skill description)


All bonuses derived purely from race should probably be racial bonuses by definition.


Gamer Girrl wrote:

page 8, Stonecunning

Not sure if this is a typo, but only barbarians lack Profession as a class skill. ::shrug::

page 10, Half-Orcs, last sentence of descriptive paragraph
"[...] and wits serves them best." should be serve them best.

Most of your list looked good, but Barbarians were the only class not to get Profession in 3.0 or 3.5 D&D, so it's unlikely that THAT is a typo (however silly it looks). However, I'm not sure what that has to do with Stonecunning, unless you've misunderstood how the class skill bonus works in Pathfinder -- or unless I'm misunderstanding the way Stonecunning works. The way I read it, dwarves get the +3 class skill bonus to applicable Profession checks, even if they don't have ranks in the skill.

Also, you cut out too much of the sentence you've quoted on page 10, removing the noun to which "serves" actually refers. The last clause of the sentence reads, "where their combination of strength and
wits serves them best." "Serves" refers to "combination," not to "wits," and thus is correct.

To the Pathfinder team: I love what you're doing! Keep up the good work! :)


Haven't read the other posts, so some possible duplications here on my list:

p8 clarify: Dwarf, Slow and Steady: "never modified by armor or encumbrance..." what about lifting - still 20 ft. speed?

p11 contradiction: Halfling, Fearless, "...both bonuses are racial and stack...", this contradicts stacking rules

p11 claify & unify, Humans, Skills: skill points or skill ranks?


Beastman wrote:


p11 contradiction: Halfling, Fearless, "...both bonuses are racial and stack...", this contradicts stacking rules

Well, racial bonuses do stack as mentioned in the MAGIC chapter! So all the halfling unnamed bonuses should be racial bonuses (?) and the Bonuy-Type part found in the Magic chapter should be removed and be added to the very start of the rulebook.


I've just downloaded the Beta PDF and read up through chapter 3. In addition to some of the edits earlier in this thread, below are some other changes I think you might want to make.

(Note: My page numbers are often 1 higher than I see in other edits for the same text, so there must have been some text reflowing since fall.)

CHAPTER 2

p5: "These scores determine your character’s most basic attributes and
are used to decide a wide variety of details and statistics."

better: "These scores are your character’s most basic attributes and
are used to determine a wide variety of details and statistics."

rationale: A Strength of 14 is not used to decide your damage bonus. It determines your damage bonus.

----
p5: "Some class selections require you to have better than average
scores for some of your abilities."

better: "Some class selections require better than average scores for
certain abilities."

----
p5: "with an amount of gold pieces"

correction: "with a number of gold pieces" (or "with an amount of gold")

rationale: You can count gold pieces, so you have a number of them. You can't count gold (the metal), so you have an amount of it.

----
p5: "from chainmail armor to"

better: "from chainmail to".

rationale: "Plate armor" is fine, but "chainmail armor" is redundant.

----
p5: "works much in the same way"

better: "works in much the same way"

----
p5: "Ability scores for characters generally range from 3 to 18" [...] "the average of any score is 10."

This seems to be in conflict with the point-cost table on the next page, which shows a minimum ability score of 7. You might want to clarify: "Ability scores in the humanoid populations generally range from 3 to 18 with an average of 10, although racial bonuses and penalties can alter this."

----
p6: You seem to be using different meanings of high and low fantasy than I'm used to, something more like high-powered and low-powered. I don't see any problem with that, unless my sense of their meaning is the predominant one. You might want a third opinion.

----
p6: "apply any racial modifiers the character might have."

better: "apply the modifiers for the character's race."

rationale: The former suggests that there is some question about what racial modifiers to apply ("might have"). Every race has at least one racial ability-score modifier, and all applicable ones must be applied.

----
p8: "Will saving throws (for negating the effects of charm person and other spells)."

The other save categories have a comma after "throws" rather than a parenthesized phrase following. Write all three saving throw modifiers one way or the other.

----
p8: "Channel energy difficulty classes (DC) for"

better?: "The difficult class (DC) of resisting Channel Energy by".

rationale: The former is awkward. Are you channeling "energy difficulty classes"? Referring to the classes of "channel energy difficulty"? The reader needs too much context to parse it easily.

Also, you don't mentioned DCs for spells, just for Channel Energy. You might want to either leave this out altogether, or mention spell DCs in each the Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma sections.

CHAPTER 3

p10: "Dwarves receive a +4 bonus to their combat maneuver bonus"

better: "Dwarves receive a +4 bonus to their combat maneuver bonus (CMB)"

rationale: There is another use of "bonus" later in the sentence, and a bonus to a bonus is awkward. By acronymizing (what a word!) CMB, you reduce that awkwardness.

----
p10: "Languages: Dwarves begin play"

better?: "Languages: Dwarven characters begin play"

rationale: Dwarves play drinking games, not Pathfinder. The start of the sentence suggests an in-game context, and it is jarring to have it turn out to be a meta-game context.

----
p10: Specify here whether gnomes can change (or defer choosing) the skill of their "obsessive" +2 racial bonus. I don't know what you intend, and this is an obvious point for contention during a campaign.

----
p10: So the +1 DC for gnome magic does not apply to the free-for-gnomes spells?

----
p11: "Half-elves tend to follow"

better: "Half-elves usually follow"

rationale: You have 2 different uses of "tend" in sequential sentences.

----
p11: "half-elves are skilled at nearly any craft."

better: "half-elves are skilled at nearly any trade."

rationale: I see no support for a reference to the Craft skill, so the use of the word "craft" is confusing. You use the word "trade" in the section about humans, and as far as I've seen "trade" is not a key word in the Pathfinder system.

----
p12: "making them great friends as well as bitter enemies to those who have wronged them."

Better?: "making them loyal to friends, and making them bitter enemies to those who have wronged them."

rationale: The former makes it sound like those who have wronged them get both results (friendship and bitterness).

----
p12: "slings and treat any weapon"

better: "slings, and treat any weapon"

----
p12: "Humans and half-elves frequently get this bonus, unless they multiclass."

What's special about humans and half-elves? It seems this would be true of all the races, in which case you probably want to drop this sentence altogether.


Subtract 1 from all page numbers in my post (previous). I was recording the PDF view page numbers, rather than the Pathfinder book page numbers.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Roleplaying Game / Design Forums / Ability Scores and Races / Errata and Typos (Ch2 and Ch3) All Messageboards
Recent threads in Ability Scores and Races