Riding


4th Edition


Can anybody tell what the hell happened to the skill RIDE, as I havn't found it among the skill lists?

I plan to split a couple of skills out for the 4th Ed but was trying to rationalise the consolidated skills.


ProsSteve wrote:

Can anybody tell what the hell happened to the skill RIDE, as I havn't found it among the skill lists?

I plan to split a couple of skills out for the 4th Ed but was trying to rationalise the consolidated skills.

Everyone is assumed to be able to ride proficiently in 4th Edition. If you take the Mounted Combat feat you can take advantage of the mount's special abilities.


P1NBACK wrote:
ProsSteve wrote:

Can anybody tell what the hell happened to the skill RIDE, as I havn't found it among the skill lists?

I plan to split a couple of skills out for the 4th Ed but was trying to rationalise the consolidated skills.

Everyone is assumed to be able to ride proficiently in 4th Edition. If you take the Mounted Combat feat you can take advantage of the mount's special abilities.

Thanks, at least I know now. That'll be a Skill I'll be putting back in. Maybe I'll define it as Horsmanship which'll be riding, handling a horse, basic chirurgury for horse and the like. I can still exept the feat Mounted Combat to give you the horses Abilities but still like the Skill checks for chase scenes.


ProsSteve wrote:
P1NBACK wrote:
ProsSteve wrote:

Can anybody tell what the hell happened to the skill RIDE, as I havn't found it among the skill lists?

I plan to split a couple of skills out for the 4th Ed but was trying to rationalise the consolidated skills.

Everyone is assumed to be able to ride proficiently in 4th Edition. If you take the Mounted Combat feat you can take advantage of the mount's special abilities.
Thanks, at least I know now. That'll be a Skill I'll be putting back in. Maybe I'll define it as Horsmanship which'll be riding, handling a horse, basic chirurgury for horse and the like. I can still exept the feat Mounted Combat to give you the horses Abilities but still like the Skill checks for chase scenes.

That's what Endurance or Athletics would be used for. To be honest, creating an entire skill whose sole purpose is to function during horseback chases isn't really worthwhile unless your entire campaign is played from the backs of horses. Skills in 4th Edition are designed to have relatively wide application.


Thanks, at least I know now. That'll be a Skill I'll be putting back in. Maybe I'll define it as Horsmanship which'll be riding, handling a horse, basic chirurgury for horse and the like. I can still exept the feat Mounted Combat to give you the horses Abilities but still like the Skill checks for chase scenes. That's what Endurance or Athletics would be used for. To be honest, creating an entire skill whose sole purpose is to function during horseback chases isn't really worthwhile unless your entire campaign is played from the backs of horses. Skills in 4th Edition are designed to have relatively wide application.

Neither Endurance nor Athletics would cover the skill I'm afraid. Endurance may be required for long, hard rides but I'm going to be using a slightly more advanced version of the Skills system anyhow.

I also plan to use horseback riding more heavily in the game from riding over rough ground, getting the horse to ride up or down steep inclines, jumps and a lot of other uses for horsmanship and give the PC's a reason to think about taking mounted combat.
I also enjoy running combats where lance using PC's can fight orc\goblin warbands.


ProsSteve wrote:

Neither Endurance nor Athletics would cover the skill I'm afraid. Endurance may be required for long, hard rides but I'm going to be using a slightly more advanced version of the Skills system anyhow.

I also plan to use horseback riding more heavily in the game from riding over rough ground, getting the horse to ride up or down steep inclines, jumps and a lot of other uses for horsmanship and give the PC's a reason to think about taking mounted combat.
I also enjoy running combats where lance using PC's can fight orc\goblin warbands.

If you are going to do that I would suggest a "Mountmanship" skill instead of "Horsemanship". I have a suspicion that when the Adventurer's Vault comes out, there'll be MUCH more options for mounts than "horses". Unless as a DM you only allow mounts to be horses.

But, you'd need a new skill for each type of mount if you made it "Horsemanship".

Me personally, I agree with Betts that Endurance and Athletics, and even Acrobatics, would work for me for chase scenes atop mounts of any kind.


If you are going to do that I would suggest a "Mountmanship" skill instead of "Horsemanship". I have a suspicion that when the Adventurer's Vault comes out, there'll be MUCH more options for mounts than "horses". Unless as a DM you only allow mounts to be horses.

But, you'd need a new skill for each type of mount if you made it "Horsemanship".

Me personally, I agree with Betts that Endurance and Athletics, and even Acrobatics, would work for me for chase scenes atop mounts of any kind.

The trouble is I do know how to ride and using the skills of Endurance, Athletics to handle a persons skill riding just doesn't work for me at all and I know my players, they are having a bit of difficulty with the limited skills sets as it is. The idea that a gymnast(Actobatics), long distance runner(Endurance) or Triathlete(Athletics) can leap on a horse and ride just wouldn't sit well.

Endurance will be required on long hard rides, Athletics for quickly mounting the horse, jumping off etc and acrobatics for doing the some of the stunts on horseback( American Indian\Mongol\Zorro style) but for getting the horse to do things you need to have some dedicated skill.
I'll have a think over mountmanship( or whatever I'll call it) because I agree that it should cover more than one creature( previous Paladin in my Campaign had a Celestial Dire Lion for mount). A generic riding\handling skill would make more sense.


ProsSteve wrote:
The idea that a gymnast(Actobatics), long distance runner(Endurance) or Triathlete(Athletics) can leap on a horse and ride just wouldn't sit well.

What about a full-time adventurer in a fantasy world? Like I said, 4th Edition assumes as full-time adventurers, the player-characters are presumed to have skill to do basic riding, maintenance, and such.

It'd be like if the game took place in the Wild West - everyone is presumed to have the ability to ride horses as it is the main source of transportation. Hell, most people probably have some skill in training or handling horses.

Then, if you want to do tricks, or take advantage of the beast's innate abilities - Mounted Combat and other skills like Athletics and Endurance are necessary.

ProsSteve wrote:

Endurance will be required on long hard rides, Athletics for quickly mounting the horse, jumping off etc and acrobatics for doing the some of the stunts on horseback( American Indian\Mongol\Zorro style) but for getting the horse to do things you need to have some dedicated skill.

I'll have a think over mountmanship( or whatever I'll call it) because I agree that it should cover more than one creature( previous Paladin in my Campaign had a Celestial Dire Lion for mount). A generic riding\handling skill would make more sense.

Well, if you planned on doing this, 3.5 had "Ride" as a skill. I think that'd be fine for describing your ability in detail how to ride all sorts of mounts.


P1NBACK wrote:
ProsSteve wrote:
The idea that a gymnast(Actobatics), long distance runner(Endurance) or Triathlete(Athletics) can leap on a horse and ride just wouldn't sit well.

What about a full-time adventurer in a fantasy world? Like I said, 4th Edition assumes as full-time adventurers, the player-characters are presumed to have skill to do basic riding, maintenance, and such.

It'd be like if the game took place in the Wild West - everyone is presumed to have the ability to ride horses as it is the main source of transportation. Hell, most people probably have some skill in training or handling horses.

Then, if you want to do tricks, or take advantage of the beast's innate abilities - Mounted Combat and other skills like Athletics and Endurance are necessary.

Well, if you planned on doing this, 3.5 had "Ride" as a skill. I think that'd be fine for describing your ability in detail how to ride all sorts of mounts.

My players normally start out either not able to ride at all( low grade militia, peasants) or already mounted archetypes( knights, mounted militia etc) who eventually learn things like riding. I've had a few PC's who NEVER learned to ride in my campaigns because the character doesn't get on with horses ( i've had a number of characters who've had very bad relationships with horses). Added some real comedy in the past when an inexperienced rider has taken off at full tilt on horse in the middle of a combat, even accidentaly running enemy troops over before coming flying off the horse into a stream. It was a comical talking point after the combat (statements like 'what the hell were you doing to that poor horse' and 'enjoy the swim?' came in).

Thanks for the input though it's given me some idea's. I will use a variation of the ride skill and the handle animal(under knowledge nature but only for mount creatures).


ProsSteve wrote:

My players normally start out either not able to ride at all( low grade militia, peasants) or already mounted archetypes( knights, mounted militia etc) who eventually learn things like riding. I've had a few PC's who NEVER learned to ride in my campaigns because the character doesn't get on with horses ( i've had a number of characters who've had very bad relationships with horses). Added some real comedy in the past when an inexperienced rider has taken off at full tilt on horse in the middle of a combat, even accidentaly running enemy troops over before coming flying off the horse into a stream. It was a comical talking point after the combat (statements like 'what the hell were you doing to that poor horse' and 'enjoy the swim?' came in).

Thanks for the input though it's given me some idea's. I will use a variation of the ride skill and the handle animal(under knowledge nature but only for mount creatures).

Good luck!


ProsSteve wrote:

If you are going to do that I would suggest a "Mountmanship" skill instead of "Horsemanship". I have a suspicion that when the Adventurer's Vault comes out, there'll be MUCH more options for mounts than "horses". Unless as a DM you only allow mounts to be horses.

But, you'd need a new skill for each type of mount if you made it "Horsemanship".

Me personally, I agree with Betts that Endurance and Athletics, and even Acrobatics, would work for me for chase scenes atop mounts of any kind.

The trouble is I do know how to ride and using the skills of Endurance, Athletics to handle a persons skill riding just doesn't work for me at all and I know my players, they are having a bit of difficulty with the limited skills sets as it is. The idea that a gymnast(Actobatics), long distance runner(Endurance) or Triathlete(Athletics) can leap on a horse and ride just wouldn't sit well.

It can be assumed that a character with training in these skills (especially in endurance and athletics) has some training in riding as part of that proficiency. Also, having your new skill cover horse handling is unnecessary as well - that's what Nature is for.

ProsSteve wrote:
Endurance will be required on long hard rides, Athletics for quickly mounting the horse, jumping off etc and acrobatics for doing the some of the stunts on horseback( American Indian\Mongol\Zorro style) but for getting the horse to do things you need to have some dedicated skill.

Called Nature. All of those skills can be easily incorporated into a skill challenge covering the chase.


Scott Betts wrote:

It can be assumed that a character with training in these skills (especially in endurance and athletics) has some training in riding as part of that proficiency. Also, having your new skill cover horse handling is unnecessary as well - that's what Nature is for.

As I stated before being an Athlete doesn't make you a horse rider nor does the ability to run continuously for hours as per the skill Endurance, these skills have NO relation to riding. Also as most Riders do learn at least basic horse care it seemed to make sense that they'd get Handle Animal for the mount as part of the skill rather then making them learn about all the other area's covered by the skill Nature.

I am filling in the gaps that are in 4E to make it work for me and my players. As I said before I've already run Star Wars Saga edition and the heavily consolidated skills were a very big issue. Many of the characters were finding that they had no individuality and whilst you may not agree the group has found that this is important to them. Since running the SWSE I have been thinking on the skills issue and adjusting accordingly.
The one thing 4E didn't bring in was limitations on skill rolls for non-trained skills which was in SWSE.


Forget about skill and use attribute checks. Make up a feat called Riding thatgives +5 to any check related to horses. Then depending on the situation ask for attribute checks to simulate riding. ( Dex check for combat maneuvers, Wisdom checks for calming the mount during combat, STr checks for stopping the horse abruptly, etc.)

Thats the ppoint of the atribute modifires to simulate any other secondary skills.


Nahualt wrote:

Forget about skill and use attribute checks. Make up a feat called Riding thatgives +5 to any check related to horses. Then depending on the situation ask for attribute checks to simulate riding. ( Dex check for combat maneuvers, Wisdom checks for calming the mount during combat, STr checks for stopping the horse abruptly, etc.)

Thats the ppoint of the atribute modifires to simulate any other secondary skills.

Trouble is that doesn't really cut it either. If you set that riding is an attribute check then anyone with a high attribute in the one chosen can jump on a horse and control the horse like a native american indian and someone with a low or negative attribute will struggle to control the animal. Neither makes a lot of sense when it's knowledge,skill and experience that allows the control of a horse. For example I know of a few people who are rather large and lack in dexterity but know for sure that if the two of us had to ride an obstacle course,do jumps etc then I'd be left standing.

Likewise with handling the animal, I am starting to learn to look for signs when a horse is a biter, foot stomper etc and that is through knowledge.
It needs to be a skill.

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