Everytime James mentions aboleths, I find myself rereading the Veiled Master description.
There are no secret files. That's a blatant lie.
They are actually in the Paizo building's lightless, stairwayless basement, in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying, "Beware of the Leopard."
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My theory: Aaroden died because of PLAP ("Paizo's Last Adventure Path"). As the world is coming apart at the seams, the Pathfinder Society finds it self as the last, best hope for mankind. They put together a group of PCs to figure out what's happening. Those PCs, in book 6 of the adventure path, travel back in time and are forced to kill Aroden.
Ah, Zathros knows, yes, was there and then Zathras was. The adventurers went back in time and used Golarion 4 in the war against the Shadows. Aroden used the chrysalis machine to become an Eldest.
No one, ever listens to poor Zathras no, he's quite mad they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind, has even grown to like it.
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Nah, he didn't die, he just went to visit Pharasma and the paperwork got a little mixed up ...
He's like that Tom Hank's character in The Terminal, trapped in the airport with no country to go to and diplomatically unable to leave. Thankfully, Pharasma's Spire has wifi, so Aroden's not completely out of the loop. Although, he did narrowly escape the intricate soul trap/maze effect Gentlemen Nurn and the Choir of Proteans Without Proper Avatars left for him.
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The eyeless krakens washed ashore on the Isle of Kortos in the year 4700 AR, some 94 years after Aroden's death.
They are ABSOLUTELY foreshadowing something I've got planned for the future, but that event doesn't really have anything to do with Aroden's death at all.
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Humanity didn't need him anymore. He returned to his true form, a mace, and found the next person that would need him. He hoped that maybe this leap would be the leap home...
We have no plans to delve into this in the near future.
The details are shrouded in mystery.
Can anyone shed any light as to why this is the case? I dont mean in-game, I mean what the perceived benefit is of having some things with an official-but-not-revealed answer?
Obviously, there will always be mysteries - as in things you havent detailed yet. Furthermore, with "big things" like this, it would make sense that you guys know the answer (since you'd presumably want to make sure nothing you release accidentally contradicts it). I just dont see the advantage in declaring some things never*-to-be-revealed.
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We have no plans to delve into this in the near future.
The details are shrouded in mystery.
Can anyone shed any light as to why this is the case? I dont mean in-game, I mean what the perceived benefit is of having some things with an official-but-not-revealed answer?
They've talked about this in the Gencon panels. Basicly:
1) In game the fact that no mortal knows it is really important to the mythos of the world.2) In real life look to this thread, there are a lot of theories, and if each GM starts running a ten year campaign now, with a fundamental belief that their theory is correct, paizo doesn't want to invalidate 9 years of play time
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We have no plans to delve into this in the near future.
The details are shrouded in mystery.
Can anyone shed any light as to why this is the case? I dont mean in-game, I mean what the perceived benefit is of having some things with an official-but-not-revealed answer?
It allows them to have internal consistency in development of other materials that may hint at or rely on what happened. You don't want your setting getting out of hand, and keeping things consistent is important for much of the fan base.
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Nah, he didn't die, he just went to visit Pharasma and the paperwork got a little mixed up ...He's like that Tom Hank's character in The Terminal, trapped in the airport with no country to go to and diplomatically unable to leave. Thankfully, Pharasma's Spire has wifi, so Aroden's not completely out of the loop. Although, he did narrowly escape the intricate soul trap/maze effect Gentlemen Nurn and the Choir of Proteans Without Proper Avatars left for him.
*grumbles* I put a lot of work into that. I mean, it was no M-25, nnnooooo, but still....
The whys and hows of Aroden's Death are Golarion's version of The Game. Therefore, the results are in and we have all have lost.
So, who's up for Cayden Beer Pong? As per standard rules, all dwarves and Ulfen must start with a half-pony keg handicap.
They've talked about this in the Gencon panels. Basicly:
1) In game the fact that no mortal knows it is really important to the mythos of the world.2) In real life look to this thread, there are a lot of theories, and if each GM starts running a ten year campaign now, with a fundamental belief that their theory is correct, paizo doesn't want to invalidate 9 years of play time
Cheers. I guess I can understand the first (although it doesnt really gel with my experiences, I'm pretty much the only member of our group invested in Golarion).
The second seems a little odd, but I guess it ties in with the first point. It seems like a case of special pleading (eg they werent worried about invalidating a Tian Xia campaign). Any time they publish anything, they will be doing that. I suppose Aroden's death is supposed to be a suitably huge mystery that it deserves special treatment. Thanks.
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The second seems a little odd, but I guess it ties in with the first point. It seems like a case of special pleading (eg they werent worried about invalidating a Tian Xia campaign). Any time they publish anything, they will be doing that. I suppose Aroden's death is supposed to be a suitably huge mystery that it deserves special treatment. Thanks.
There are a number of things that was mentioned as 'will most likly never reveal' see the pathfinderwiki mysteries of golarion page
BTW it looks like they first said that thy won't tell anyone about Aroden 's death in the paizocon 2011 panel... you can listen to this on the chronicles:pathfinder podcast page (sorry don't have a link handy)
I think Paizo, like any good DM, has a story behind Aroden's death but could be willing to change it if the players/fans turn up a better one. *grin*
I'm very curious about the eyeless krakens now, though. What does it mean???? I must know!! Gah, now I can't sleep pondering the symbology. In time, I think my mind may melt from interminable, circular musings and I'll drown in a pool of my own spittle. Curse you, eyeless krakens! *shakes fist*
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The whys and hows of Aroden's Death are Golarion's version of The Game. Therefore, the results are in and we have all have lost.
So, who's up for Cayden Beer Pong? As per standard rules, all dwarves and Ulfen must start with a half-pony keg handicap.
Damn you AS - I just lost The Game!
The second seems a little odd, but I guess it ties in with the first point. It seems like a case of special pleading (eg they werent worried about invalidating a Tian Xia campaign). Any time they publish anything, they will be doing that. I suppose Aroden's death is supposed to be a suitably huge mystery that it deserves special treatment. Thanks.
There are a number of things that was mentioned as 'will most likly never reveal' see the pathfinderwiki mysteries of golarion page
BTW it looks like they first said that thy won't tell anyone about Aroden 's death in the paizocon 2011 panel... you can listen to this on the chronicles:pathfinder podcast page (sorry don't have a link handy)
Although some of those things have been answered...For instance Rovagug has been flat out confirmed as a super Qlippoth
I'm not sure if this is the actual reason, but as was mentioned it's important that no one knows what happened to Aroden in setting. Now take other secrets "nobody knows" in setting--like the existance of the drow. Because there's lots of published info on them, it's way more likely that too much out of game knowlege will creep into the game. PCs will end up playing drow, someone will roll a 20 on lore and end up knowing the full story, that sort of thing. Secrets tend not to stay secrets in setting once the developers have outted them in a product. So with Aroden's death, since really nobody knows, DMs have to play it the same way. Once we find out, the knowlege will start trickling into the world too.
Basically, not knowing keeps us honest as storytellers.
(Well until Norgorber blows up anyway...then everyone will know I was right!)
Didn't Iomedae ascend before Norgorber? Then she'd burst first, I imagine.
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I know the reason, and ultimately it's the same reason behind everything terrible that happens.
... The yugoloths did it!
Wait. No. That was only in 2nd Edition. And no 'loths in Golarion. There goes my theory. Bah!
;)
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Didn't Iomedae ascend before Norgorber? Then she'd burst first, I imagine.
No, Iomedae ascended last and is the youngest of the Starstone deities.
I'm not meaning to be a know-it-all, but I just coincidentally read her full write-up from the Council of Thieves AP just a few minutes ago. I was doing some work related research. So this is fresh in my mind and I'm absolutely certain.
(barring retcon or "forgetting we ever said that")
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We have no plans to delve into this in the near future.
The details are shrouded in mystery.
Can anyone shed any light as to why this is the case? I dont mean in-game, I mean what the perceived benefit is of having some things with an official-but-not-revealed answer?
They've talked about this in the Gencon panels. Basicly:
1) In game the fact that no mortal knows it is really important to the mythos of the world.2) In real life look to this thread, there are a lot of theories, and if each GM starts running a ten year campaign now, with a fundamental belief that their theory is correct, paizo doesn't want to invalidate 9 years of play time
Yeah I hear this...and it is kinda of annoying to me as a GM.
1) The GM is not a mere mortal. He is the Story Teller. The guys who put together the world and such are in Cooperation with the GM to tell the story(with th PC heavily influencing the action). When you tell me...as a GMN you are telling me secret than you are telling me it is less my game than before.
2) Well if the let the people know the secret than they would not have to worry about issue 2.
Now if the plans are to Never ever reveal this secret and it is up to the invidual GMs to decide...or to just ignore...than that is fine with me.
But if they are with holding this secret so it is not 'spoiled' for the GM...well I am not buying RPG and running Golarion for the same reasons I would buy a novel...so it would not be spoiling anything...it would be letting your writting partner know what you are doing.
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I agree, John, and kind of wish a little birdie would whisper in my ear all the secrets about the campaign world that were of interest to me so I could know how to incorporate them into my view of the world.
On the flip side, publishing all of the secrets leads to situations like the one in my game (homebrew set in River Kingdoms) where I want the flavor of Razmir to be that people think he is truly a living god. Half of my players know he is a 19th level wizard and a sham, though, so the cover is blown from the get go. Sure, I can remind them that their characters don't know that but without the air of mystery (is he or isn't he?) it's less impactful. So in that regard I don't mind some secrets not being made public.
As you can see, I'm torn. I (as DM) want to know what impacts my story but I don't want my players getting their hands on it. With something as big as the death of a god I would rather not take a stab at the cause and get it wrong so it just is what it is...a mystery.
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Didn't Iomedae ascend before Norgorber? Then she'd burst first, I imagine.No, Iomedae ascended last and is the youngest of the Starstone deities.
I'm not meaning to be a know-it-all, but I just coincidentally read her full write-up from the Council of Thieves AP just a few minutes ago. I was doing some work related research. So this is fresh in my mind and I'm absolutely certain.
(barring retcon or "forgetting we ever said that")
S'ok, I'm well out of the loop myself, so I'm all for the more educated/familiar stepping in to make corrections.
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My theory, Aroden was stripped of his power by an unknown force and thrown onto a distant world called earth where he assumed the identity of James Jacobs and started Pathfinder in order to find a group of players powerful enough with the Wrath of the Righteous AP to send back with the magic he has left to save the world of Galorian and finally begin the golden age in mortal hands.
Creative Director
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One of the whole points of keeping the cause of Aroden's death secret, of course, is to actually EMPOWER the GM so that if the GM wants to utilize that element in their campaign and have a revelation about it, the GM can do so without fear of us coming along and invalidating them by printing something different.
Another of the main points in keeping it secret is that secrets keep the mind engaged. I need only point to the popularity of "Lost" before the final episode as evidence—while there were secrets in that show, folks loved it and it was a sensation, but once the show ended, it seemed to breed a lot of animosity and disappointment and frustration with its viewers because the answers revealed didn't match the many different (and themselves often contradictory) viewer-assumptions of answers.
With Aroden's death, I do have a pretty good idea of how it happened, so that whenever we do print something that brushes against it or talks about Aroden we can keep the internal logic consistent, but that means that it's not a topic that we're really interested in even letting freelancers do much with. In the end, I hope that by keeping a pretty tight reign on this topic (including NOT giving out much info) that folks can do something about his death in their campaigns and not worry about us messing it up for them.
Now... there may come a day when we decide to reveal what happened. I'm not sure what sorts of circumstances would result in us making that decision—having a complete staff turnover with new folks working on Golarion from top to bottom could be one scenario where you'd see Paizo reveal the info, I guess...
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I'm not sure what sorts of circumstances would result in us making that decision—having a complete staff turnover with new folks working on Golarion from top to bottom could be one scenario where you'd see Paizo reveal the info, I guess...
I know you are a fan of horror, James, but man, that's just TOO scary a thought ...
<goes to corner and rocks back and forth muttering 'it was not real, it was not real'>
James, has Paizo sat down to figure out what the future timeline of Golarion might look like (in regards to major Ages at least)? That is something I would be interested in seeing. What happens after the Age of Lost Omens? How long does it last?
Regarding Aroden's death, I have it as a minor plot point but nothing more. It is what it is. Our group has started rotating GM's so I don't know that any of us would attempt to define what happened to Aroden to be honest without knowing what the truth was, since that would impact the other GM's games. It's a neat mystery to be sure.
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Creative Director
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James, has Paizo sat down to figure out what the future timeline of Golarion might look like (in regards to major Ages at least)? That is something I would be interested in seeing. What happens after the Age of Lost Omens? How long does it last?
Regarding Aroden's death, I have it as a minor plot point but nothing more. It is what it is. Our group has started rotating GM's so I don't know that any of us would attempt to define what happened to Aroden to be honest without knowing what the truth was, since that would impact the other GM's games. It's a neat mystery to be sure.
No, we have not. Unless you count the fact that we have our release schedule figured out a year in advance, and the fact that Rob and I generally have a few additional years-worth of ideas for the adventure path. But those aren't things we share with the public, and until they're actually outlined and on schedules, they're not even guaranteed to ever exist.
James, has Paizo sat down to figure out what the future timeline of Golarion might look like (in regards to major Ages at least)? That is something I would be interested in seeing. What happens after the Age of Lost Omens? How long does it last?No, we have not. Unless you count the fact that we have our release schedule figured out a year in advance, and the fact that Rob and I generally have a few additional years-worth of ideas for the adventure path. But those aren't things we share with the public, and until they're actually outlined and on schedules, they're not even guaranteed to ever exist.
That makes sense. Thanks, James!
Edit to add this question: Does that mean that the intention is for the vast majority of published Golarion material to take place within the Age of Lost Omens? That would be helpful (to me) to know. Thanks!|
Creative Director
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Edit to add this question: Does that mean that the intention is for the vast majority of published Golarion material to take place within the Age of Lost Omens? That would be helpful (to me) to know. Thanks!
That's never really been discussed, in fact. So I guess it's a safe assumption to make.
One of my theories about Aroden's death.
He saw that man were growing stagnat waiting on him to fix everything. He forsaw...or interperted the prophersies of coming threats he alone would not be able to deal with (perhaps one of them being the World Wound). Seeing if he stayed he can't help from saving mankind because that is too ingrained in his nature. But realizing if he stayed mankind was doomed. So he did the only thing he could...he ended his own life.
It sorta fit in that the other gods were shocked by it...I mean other gods have died...but a god taking his own life would be shocking to them.
Just a thought.
I've been running a Darkmoon Vale game--for a little too long, not that anyone's complaining--and the popular rumor is that "Asmodeus assassinated Aroden". Whether this is true or not is less important than how it affects the increasing tensions between Piren's Bluff and Falcon's Hollow, et al. Still, Aroden's name has come up more than before, since my players just finished "Hungry Are The Dead", and are now "addressing" the involvement of a certain priestess to Asmodeus in the events that have unfurled in their overarching campaign.
Couldn't a character draw the Vizier card from the Deck of Many Things and find out what happened to Aroden? Then they could reveal to everyone what happened or just keep it to themselves.
I am curious why are there soo many theories that Asmodeus did it? What about the demons? The World Wound did appear right after his death.
The eyeless krakens washed ashore on the Isle of Kortos in the year 4700 AR, some 94 years after Aroden's death.
They are ABSOLUTELY foreshadowing something I've got planned for the future, but that event doesn't really have anything to do with Aroden's death at all.
I sense a Xhamen-Dor tie-in...
I am curious why are there soo many theories that Asmodeus did it? What about the demons? The World Wound did appear right after his death.
Mostly because Chelliax, Aroden's center of worship, fell to Asmodeus upon Aroden's death. It's a sound theory, as far as motives go, but really, either Asmodeus was too arrogant (likely) or too stupid (unlikely) or both if it was him, because killing Arodeon cause the World Wound, the Eye of Abednigo, and the civil war that shattered Chelliax: the World Wound gave rise to demons, the Eye of Abendigo cut off a tremendous source of power and wealth to Chelliax, and Chelliax itself fell to a fraction of its former glory with Asmodeus' faith's rise (giving rise to no less than three now-chaotic countries and one distinctively neutral good country that is a dedicated foe).
If it was Asmodeus' plan, it didn't go very well (and he'd look something like an idiot, in that case). Of course, in that case, if it was his plan, his pride wouldn't let him admit it.
So, you know, I can see it as a viable theory (especially "in character", as most people would be concerned with their own governmental elements, and most would point to the large and powerful Chelliax being Asmodeus' as 'proof' of what happened to Aroden).
Looking at the larger picture, however, I can see so many other valid would-be murderers.
EDIT: it's funny - two recently activated threads about this make it more difficult for me to remember what I posted where.
Here are a few of my thoughts on the potential culprits. I would like to reverse my stance on Pharasma and Asmodeus, however. upon thinking about it, Pharasma seems less likely compared to Asmodeus, to me. Still not ranking them super-high on the list, though.