They can go from birth to fully trained individual in four and a half years. How do the other races compete with that?
They can go from birth to fully trained individual in four and a half years. How do the other races compete with that?
Less infighting and greed- or wrath-driven backstabbing?
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They can go from birth to fully trained individual in four and a half years. How do the other races compete with that?Less infighting and greed- or wrath-driven backstabbing?
No, Hobs are the lawful ones.. I'd say that their business practice (slave trade and smuggling) as well as religious sacrifices maybe keep their numbers down.. when all the men 5 years old and older are away slaving, it's hard for a race to breed, I see the hobos as to ambitious to sit in town and do nothing.
Also don't underrate the spirit and abilities of the other races. Yes, the Hobgoblins mature quickly, but Humans and Orks also breed and mature quickly (enough), so these two races would be enough to keep the Hobgoblins at bay.
Of, course, you do have a point in that Golarian history should have records of brutal wars against the hobgoblin menace. (With Man & Orc even being allies in those struggles . . .)
They can go from birth to fully trained individual in four and a half years. How do the other races compete with that?
By unleashing homicidal CE halfling rangers upon them.
They only have 5 years worth of experience? I'd say that means low wisdom scores. They may be brutal and fight in formation, but they sure do love the full attack strategy without thinking of terrain and environmental consequences. Maybe?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Hmm, from Classic Monsters Revisited;
Hobgoblins aren't keen on magic, so they're vulnerable to spell tossers. Fireball, or even worse cloudkill, acid fog, widened spells, etc. will play hob (pun intended) on an army.
Military society, relying on their slaves for cultural advances. This could lead to cultural collapse as they take an aspect from their slaves (say fugu preperation) and the slaves die/escape. "Grok can cook blowfish just fine! Wait, why are all of Grok's friends dead?"
To steal from Battletech, Hobgoblins are Fire Mandrills. They're enclaves, unwilling to band togetehr to expand for fear of being undermined by their 'allies'. But they unite against an outside threat.
Now if the Hobgoblins ever get their Alexander, or Temujin, then the other races may regret their existance.
They can go from birth to fully trained individual in four and a half years. How do the other races compete with that?By unleashing homicidal CE halfling rangers upon them.
Ah yes ... those Jerren from BoVD rule!!!
Military society, relying on their slaves for cultural advances. This could lead to cultural collapse as they take an aspect from their slaves (say fugu preperation) and the slaves die/escape. "Grok can cook blowfish just fine! Wait, why are all of Grok's friends dead?"
Also, slaver societies can't expand too rapidly, because you can only break slaves too quickly, and can only control so many of them per 'master'. That's one of the reasons Sparta didn't try to conquer Greece earlier than they did: they knew Thebes and Athenians wouldn't make good Helots. (When Sparta did try to take over, their armies were already mostly composed of Helots and pureblooded Spartans were in short supply).
Hobgoblins know better than to make a slave revolt too easy.
They might be fully trained fighters, they definitely aren't able to reproduce at that age. Having your population be reduced in numbers before they're able to breed is definitely one way to keep their numbers down.
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Ok this is off the top of my head and trying to remember Classic Monsters Revisited.
Something along the lines of Hobgoblins live in fortified cities ina militaristic fashion. Their society is formed around combat. Any society formed around combat will have some loses. Also, leaders tend to not not out campaigning for fear a rival will take over while he is gone. For the same reason they don't send armies out very often, being afraid the army will become loyal to its commanding officer instead and return to take over the Fort.
However, small raids are used often, particularly ones that are hopeless, that will cause the deaths of potential adversaries to the ruling General.
They are essentially a combination of Sparta and Rome. Many times Rome was ruled by a general whose army was loyal to him and put him on the throne. Sparta kept its rule small where it was better able to control its subjects and citizens.
I think whoever wrote the article on Hobgoblins saw 300 and liked it :)
Creative Director
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Yeah; the main reasons hobgoblins aren't more of a menace in Golarion is their knack for being so violent to themselves that their numbers stay down. There HAVE been a few wars in the past, of course; the most recent being the Goblinoid Wars or whatever they were called... although I don't remember if that was specifically hobgoblins... it SHOULD be.
Also, hobgoblins have a lot of enemies; not just humans and elves and dwarves, but pretty much all the other races like gnolls and orcs and kobolds don't necessarily get along with them since they're so militaristic, they tend to arouse reprisal actions pretty quickly.
ALSO: I suspect that of the three goblinoid races, hobgoblins are the least populous on Golarion. We've certainly used them less than bugbears and goblins in the adventures so far, at least...
It's when hobgoblins get leaders and situations where their military minds are tempered with patience and subtlety that they start to get dangerous, really.
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Creative Director
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Sounds like an idea for a module or adventure path.
It's when hobgoblins get leaders and situations where their military minds are tempered with patience and subtlety that they start to get dangerous, really.
Maybe... but after Red Hand of Doom, I'm kinda burnt out on hobgoblins.
Gnolls, on the other hand...
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Sounds like an idea for a module or adventure path.
It's when hobgoblins get leaders and situations where their military minds are tempered with patience and subtlety that they start to get dangerous, really.Maybe... but after Red Hand of Doom, I'm kinda burnt out on hobgoblins.
Gnolls, on the other hand...
You just can't go wrong with Hobgoblins or Gnolls in fact. Either would make fantastic critters to fight in an Adventure Path.
I'd vote for Hobgoblins myself. Never bothered with Red Hand of Doom. I figured another WOTC adventure so it couldn't be that good.
Sounds like an idea for a module or adventure path.
It's when hobgoblins get leaders and situations where their military minds are tempered with patience and subtlety that they start to get dangerous, really.Maybe... but after Red Hand of Doom, I'm kinda burnt out on hobgoblins.
Gnolls, on the other hand...
Which is exactly what you are doing with . . . Legacy Of Fire.
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Creative Director
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Which is exactly what you are doing with . . . Legacy Of Fire.Sounds like an idea for a module or adventure path.
It's when hobgoblins get leaders and situations where their military minds are tempered with patience and subtlety that they start to get dangerous, really.Maybe... but after Red Hand of Doom, I'm kinda burnt out on hobgoblins.
Gnolls, on the other hand...
Yup!
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Yup!Which is exactly what you are doing with . . . Legacy Of Fire.Sounds like an idea for a module or adventure path.
It's when hobgoblins get leaders and situations where their military minds are tempered with patience and subtlety that they start to get dangerous, really.Maybe... but after Red Hand of Doom, I'm kinda burnt out on hobgoblins.
Gnolls, on the other hand...
OOPS! Sorry JJ! I never even looked at the author. Just saw WOTC on it and walked on by.
Dang now I have to seriously look at it.
Yup!Which is exactly what you are doing with . . . Legacy Of Fire.Sounds like an idea for a module or adventure path.
It's when hobgoblins get leaders and situations where their military minds are tempered with patience and subtlety that they start to get dangerous, really.Maybe... but after Red Hand of Doom, I'm kinda burnt out on hobgoblins.
Gnolls, on the other hand...
OOPS! Sorry JJ! I never even looked at the author. Just saw WOTC on it and walked on by.
Dang now I have to seriously look at it.
Would the "Red Hand of Doom" fit into Golarion?
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Sounds like an idea for a module or adventure path.
It's when hobgoblins get leaders and situations where their military minds are tempered with patience and subtlety that they start to get dangerous, really.Maybe... but after Red Hand of Doom, I'm kinda burnt out on hobgoblins.
Gnolls, on the other hand...
Gnolls rock and are second in my favor only to kobolds. If I want to VC my players, it's kobolds. If I want a good assault, it's gnolls. The gnoll battle-laugh is fearsome.
Gnolls rock and are second in my favor only to kobolds.
Good man! Go team kobold.
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Kobolds are second for me. Hobgoblins come first and Gnolls third.
They all seem to be popular choices for most people
Gnoll -> Lizardfolk -> Hobgoblins -> Kobolds -> Bugbears for me.
Never cared for Orcs, and Golarion Goblins (or Scarred Lands Belsamaug / Spider-Eye Goblins) are way more interesting than core Goblins.
Why? "Favored class: Fighter" is the best reason, mechanically.
OOPS! Sorry JJ! I never even looked at the author. Just saw WOTC on it and walked on by.Dang now I have to seriously look at it.
Do have a look at it. I bought it, even though chances that I ever DM it are slim. I liked it very much from reading, and it sure is a good one.
Stefan
I love dem Hogoblins as well - I am planning to play one as a PC in LARPing, and we did introduce them as NPCs in our won LARPs, working as bodyguards and mercenaries for the humans adjacent to their territory.
(The humans and hobgoblins had fought each other to a bloody standstill during a recent war, and they agreed to a truce because no side could gain the upper hand. The humans are more numerous, the hobgoblins more aggressive. So the hobgoblins took to mecenary work instead - and try to gain some informations about the humans besides.)
If someone knows good pictures of D&D hobgoblins, let me know.
Stefan
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If someone knows good pictures of D&D hobgoblins, let me know.
Not to everyone's taste, but I like Claudio Pozas'
interpretations.
If someone knows good pictures of D&D hobgoblins, let me know.Not to everyone's taste, but I like Claudio Pozas' interpretation.
Nice! I like that look.
Stefan
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If someone knows good pictures of D&D hobgoblins, let me know.Not to everyone's taste, but I like Claudio Pozas' interpretation.Nice! I like that look.
Stefan
Just added another one I found. Pax Hobgoblin
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Would the "Red Hand of Doom" fit into Golarion?
From my point of view: Yes, maybe with some minor adjustments.
The setting shouln't be a problem, it is pretty generic (rather southern climate, though).The campaign is about a hobgoblin invasion although the big evil guys in the background are Tiamat controlled. For this reason there are a lot of dragons and dragonspawn (=> IP by WotC => MM 4 or 5, full stats are included in the adventure, though).
If you don't mind to use these critters, there's no reason not to do so.
My players enjoyed the adventure tremendously! I "transplanted" the adventure easily to the Silver Marches in the Realms.
- Günther
P.S.
Just too bad that F&S took until we finished the campaign to publish a german version (publication just one or two months before 4e release!).
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There is a tribe of hobgoblins. They are united by a dull-witted but powerful leader. He lacks vision, and is unable to effectively mobilize his troops. He wastes more time and energy dealing with power-hungry backstabbers within his own ranks. This keeps his tribe in check.
A young hobgoblin upstart with brains and real vision starts working his way up through the ranks. He's smart, he's ambitious, he's good at building alliances. But he's cocky. He starts getting bold, talking about how things will be when he runs the show.
Some of the old guard who haven't done so great under the current leader start supporting this young stripling, hoping to ride his coattails. This scares the leader.
He passes a new law. Not a fair law, not a just law. a law that really only affects this young upstart. His endgame will set this bold new leader's head on the chopping block.
The young upstart, realizing a trap is closing in around him stages a coup, and attempts to take control of the tribe. The tribe breaks into factions, some supporting the old king, others supporting the upstart.
By the end of the summer the fighting is over, half the tribe is dead. The tribe's slaves, sensing weakness, revolt and kill half the hobgoblins remaining as they escape.
That's when the orcs sweep in and destroy what is left of the tribe.
And so again, the hobgoblins almost got their act together, and again they are done in by their own paranoia, jealous, and thirst for power.
You guys might also want to look into Kenzer's supplement on hobgobs for their world.
off my hat, the title should be strength and Honor, but I could be wrong.
hm... got a link for that?
Stefan
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hm... got a link for that?Stefan
Not a link, but some additional info: the product in question is a "Kingdoms of Kalamar" product. In contrast to other settings half-hobgoblins are a standard player race in this setting. Apart from that hobgoblins in the Kalamar setting might be considered an exception to above mentioned rule: If I remember correctly there is at least one (permanent) hobgoblin empire.
Cheers,
Günther
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hm... got a link for that?Stefan
And here is the link to the sample pdf of "Strength & Honor". Enjoy!
- Günther
What has prevented hobgoblins from ruling Golarion?
Adventurers.
What has prevented hobgoblins from ruling Golarion?
Adventurers.
I had intended to ask this same question with each of the monsters in the Classic Monsters Revisited book so I could pull ideas and crazy schemes from the discussion, but then I realized your answer here would apply to all of them and canned the idea.