Will the tabletop game industry die because of lack of advertising?


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Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

In the 'Versions of D&D' thread,

Sebastian wrote:


I guess I would just hold off on proclaiming that D&D will always be around. If kids don't pick up the game, the population will shrink and eventually the hobby will die.

and it reminded me of something I once thought about concerning the gaming industry. How come there is no advertising that tartets non-gamers?

From what I've seen from my years of gaming, the only people that know about gaming (CCG, RPGs, Wargames, etc) are, well, gamers. How do you know a new supplement for a game is coming out? Because you're a gamer. I don't even play Warhammer 40K, but I know when a new army hits the shelves. Because I'm a gamer. So how do new people get into gaming?

I understand that advertising costs money, but can this industry survive on word of mouth alone? Where's the ad campaign? The commercials? And who is the target audience? Or is just not cost feasible?

I have seen ads for D&D in video game magazines and comic books. In fact, I had no clue about 3.0 until I saw an ad in a mag. Which got me back into gaming. Thank God for that. But, like I implied earlier, it seems like they target people who are already interested in the same types of things (comic books, video games, etc)

I have met several people who, after I tell them I play D&D, say things like "Oh yeah, I used to play that when I was a kid, that game is still around?" They have no clue what the state of gaming is and how will they?

Am I on to something here, or is not that big of a problem?

Sovereign Court

I recommend heading back to bed for a few more zzzzzz's. I am sorry Sebastian has concerned you so. This hobby, and "our game" is here to stay. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful forms of advertising.

Just look to the incredibly huge institutions that began, and were sustained, by word of mouth... Christianity... the Masons.... AA.

Yeah, nobody's dying out. In-person fantasy roleplay games are here to stay.


How to advertise it to non gamers? Aside from the word-of-mouth initiation that got the rest of us there?

1. Tell aspiring actors that roleplay is a great exercise for limbering up their improv ability, and that they can stay in character for hours straight. At least one out of two people entertain delusions of professional acting. ;)

2. Write the movie script that captivates the next generation. Paint roleplaying to be cool. Focus on an elite group of brilliant people unlocking their hidden selves and releasing their demons through roleplay. Rebel Without a Save. Kerouac, eat your heart out. Zen and the Art of Game Balance Maintenance. When writing scripts you expect to appeal to the largest base, always start with glamor.

3. Do what certain Paizo posters have already done... Teachers who play D&D, convince your school to allow you to run a D&D club.


Yes.
Because of that and computers.


I do not mean any of what I say as some sort of ageist POV. That said, I've watched an acquaintance raise his children by putting them in front of the Playstation rather than actively parent. When the kids were younger and watching TV they'd ask a lot of questions, and not only did the father not answer them, nor did the grandfather or the uncle. They were like automatons, teaching the kids that curiosity would be met with silence. I stepped in and answered the questions, but that was just one day.

When these kids were just past tot hood they were already calling out which videogames they wanted and now, a decade later, I met them both again and thought that perhaps they had both developed noticeable autism. They are so socially disconnected that they don't even know how to look you in the eye or conduct a conversation on any level. Perhaps they actually do have mild autism, in which case, I might not have a true point in their case. But I just get the feeling that if they were raised in my house, they'd be up on the soapbox next to me, looking you in the eye without blinking. It would be eerie, but impressive.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think we're expecting kids to ply their imaginations as much these days. I think many of the imaginary visuals once self-summoned are now brought to you like a prison meal in solitary. Visualization propels us through good books or even just those one-off games of imagination we devised in our youth, such as "Okay, my bed is an island and the carpet is a field of lava and we have to walk across the furniture to get to safety."

Xbox? Playstation? You can take your little kid to the poorest part of Africa, find a kid their age, and set them loose among the fray and they won't need a game platform system. They'll happily dive into the hierarchy of youth and settle right into roles of frolicky wonderment with sticks and charging around screaming.

That all said, I've been commissioned to write an Xbox game, so as Trey has reminded me whenever I have a moral quandry, there always seems to be blood on my hands.

Sovereign Court

The Jade wrote:
I do not mean any of what I say as some sort of ageist POV. That said, I've watched an acquaintance raise his children by putting them in front of the Playstation rather than actively parent.

This brings up a whole different problem with a segment of the American population. I say American, because I can't speak intelligently about how British, German, etc. people are raising their kids.

Instant gratification has consumed our culture and unfortunately I don't see this getting a whole lot better. We have to have our entertainment right now and playing RPGs isnt a form of instant gratification.
Q- "But I want to be able to be like Legolas?"
A- "Ok.. well you'll need these four feats and this special ability. So you should be able to do that around 10th level"

On to the issue of advertising..

I never have understood advertising the newest supplement in a book. First of all I appreciate books for more than what is inside. Imagine if you were reading Dickens and at the end of the book is an advertisement for his newest shiniest book that will be published in a few months.
Secondly, I understand advertising to your target audience, but you also have to expand that target audience. Because if all you are doing is advertising to that audience, eventually your audience will shrink and disappear.

Another issue though is the cost of advertising. It doesn't cost you a whole lot to advertise in your own book, just the printing cost of an additional page. However advertising in different magazines, etc can quickly add up financially and may not result in an equal return on investment.

Finally the real question is does tradition advertisement work like it used to. Advertising has evolved over the years, but does it deliver the desired end result still. When you watch a super bowl ad do you think to yourself that you need to buy some Pepsi or do you just chuckle and its soon forgotten.

We are a consumer driven culture and if we want something is it advertising that causes that?

Well now that I've gotten a bit too deep.. I think I'll start preparing for my RotRL game this afternoon.

Trent Slabaugh
Co-Host / Design & Marketing
DigitalDungeonCast.com
Infinet Media & Design


Trent Slabaugh wrote:

This brings up a whole different problem with a segment of the American population. I say American, because I can't speak intelligently about how British, German, etc. people are raising their kids.

Instant gratification has consumed our culture and unfortunately I don't see this getting a whole lot better. We have to have our entertainment right now and playing RPGs isnt a form of instant gratification.
Q- "But I want to be able to be like Legolas?"
A- "Ok.. well you'll need these four feats and this special ability. So you should be able to do that around 10th level"

So very true, Trent.


Trent Slabaugh wrote:


This brings up a whole different problem with a segment of the American population. I say American, because I can't speak intelligently about how British, German, etc. people are raising their kids.

Instant gratification has consumed our culture and unfortunately I don't see this getting a whole lot better. We have to have our entertainment right now and playing RPGs isnt a form of instant gratification.
Q- "But I want to be able to be like Legolas?"
A- "Ok.. well you'll need these four feats and this special ability. So you should be able to do that around 10th level"

I agree 100%.

But... who or what do you believe is to blame?
Or, who or what should carry the MOST blame?
And, better yet, What can we do to mitigate it?

I believe that "instant gratification syndrome" (along with some other things that I shall not go into because it is political and we can start a new thread about it some other time) will help bring this country(USA) down...


DoppleGangster wrote:
Trent Slabaugh wrote:


This brings up a whole different problem with a segment of the American population. I say American, because I can't speak intelligently about how British, German, etc. people are raising their kids.

Instant gratification has consumed our culture and unfortunately I don't see this getting a whole lot better. We have to have our entertainment right now and playing RPGs isnt a form of instant gratification.
Q- "But I want to be able to be like Legolas?"
A- "Ok.. well you'll need these four feats and this special ability. So you should be able to do that around 10th level"

I agree 100%. But it isn't only in entertainment, it is in everything!

But... who or what do you believe is to blame?
Or, who or what should carry the MOST blame?
And, better yet, What can we do to mitigate it?

I wonder if it isn't symptomatic of people just wanting every option and experience as quickly as we can have them. The instant gratification Trent was talking about.

I saw a Blu-ray that could perform functions one needed to pause the film to engage... and windows that could open and show you a city map and where each of the characters was in the city while the movie played.

That flies in the face of what a movie is supposed to do. It's an escape. You're not supposed to be analyzing outside material while trying to sink into the fimmaker's supplied alternate reality. However, if enough people want these widgets, they'll just keep coming. By the time I'm old the movie will just let you virtually step into them and hump or punch everyone. Story will be a thing of the past.

Please see Idiocracy. Some people hated the film, but I think that if viewed as the societal satire it is, it's quite funny.


Trent Slabaugh wrote:
I never have understood advertising the newest supplement in a book. First of all I appreciate books for more than what is inside. Imagine if you were reading Dickens and at the end of the book is an advertisement for his newest shiniest book that will be published in a few months.

This has been standard practice in fiction publishing for decades, hasn't it?


May I dare to say...
Perhaps parenting is the root cause... well, the lack of rather...

Scarab Sages

Well, I think that new gamers are mostly brought into the industry by other gamers. Even gamers meet new people, on occasion.

Teacher running RPG clubs is a good place to start. I intend to do so.

To touch on something Jade mentioned, there is a danger in letting electronics and fancy toys raise your children. As pointed out, they develop no social interaction and natural curiosity is stifled.

I fully believe that as primarily visual creatures, the more often we replace direct visual stimulation with mental images the better our brains develop to handle problem solving. So if you give children television, video games, or fancy toys that do everything, the child is being stimulated, but in an entirely malfunctional way - they are overloading one visceral sense at the expense of cognitive and social development. Sure, they might have great hand-eye coordination, but playing tag can do that too, and playing tag while pretending to be the X-Men, that is just the cats pajamas.

My kids are getting wood blocks and RPGs for toys.

To touch on Dopplegangsters recent post, parenting is the root problem - lazy parenting force-fed technology by an consumer-driven society. Video games aren't the problem, the parents who give their kids video games are the problem.


Trent Slabaugh wrote:

Imagine if you were reading Dickens and at the end of the book is an advertisement for his newest shiniest book that will be published in a few months.

Please tell me you meant this in a tongue-in-cheek manner.

Scarab Sages

Trent Slabaugh wrote:


I never have understood advertising the newest supplement in a book. First of all I appreciate books for more than what is inside. Imagine if you were reading Dickens and at the end of the book is an advertisement for his newest shiniest book that will be published in a few months.

Let me preface by saying I agreed with your post for the most part, and it was well-written.

However, you do know that Dickens was originally published in a monthly magazine?

And before it comes up, no I did not look that up online.


Jal Dorak wrote:


To touch on Dopplegangsters recent post, parenting is the root problem - lazy parenting force-fed technology by an consumer-driven society. Video games aren't the problem, the parents who give their kids video games are the problem.

OMG...

You agreed with me??

*DoppleGangster checks for falling sky*

EDIT: I am being funny... or trying anyway...

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

*shrug* You don't have to take my word for it - Lisa Stevens has even said the industry is in decline. Putting your fingers in your ears and going back to bed isn't going to change the facts, no matter how hard you wish it were so. To think the hobby can't die or is the equivalent of great institutions is naieve. Historical wargamers had a lot of societies, products, and magazines, and yet they are practically extinct. It has happened and it can happen again.

When I was a kid, D&D used to advertise in comics. I'm not sure if it still does. Dragon was my primary source of advertising for other rpgs. I think that these days D&D also targets penny arcade and other websites that are not specifically targeted to tabletop gamers.

In any event, I'm not sure if advertising is going to make a noticeable difference. The question is whether tabletop rpgs are competitive with the other alternatives for a person's leisure time. I wouldn't be surprised if it's word of mouth rather than formal advertising that results in most new players/DMs entering the hobby. However, if you can't recruit people because they'd rather play Magic/WoW/Bella Sara/Bridge/etc, the hobby won't last. I believe I read somewhere that the key demographic for D&D is kids with lots of spare times and few other cost effective entertainment options. These days, kids are heavily scheduled and have a large number of cost effective entertainment options, particularly video games and the internet.

One reason I got into D&D as a kid was because video games at the time were a pale imitation of what I wanted and the rpgs were few and far between. This is no longer true - there are a ton of good rpg video games which are much more immersive and fun than anything available to me as a child. Honestly, I don't think I'd be a D&D player if I had access to today's games and the internet as a child.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

DoppleGangster wrote:

May I dare to say...

Perhaps parenting is the root cause... well, the lack of rather...

Or is it "lazy gamers" in general? Are we making efforts to get new players into the hobby?

(One positive thanks to computer games & 4th Edition is that it might make a useful "bridge" to get new players to try P&P RPG gaming.)


Jal Dorak wrote:


My kids are getting wood blocks and RPGs for toys.

You are a cruel, cruel father. You could at least get them some carving tools so they can make minis out of the wooden blocks! Or are they supposed to figure that out on their own?

Scarab Sages

The wood blocks are for tying to the bottom of their shoes, so they can appear tall enough to get into R-rated movies.


Snorter wrote:
The wood blocks are for tying to the bottom of their shoes, so they can appear tall enough to get into R-rated movies.

And here I've been wearing fake moustaches and sitting on the shoulders of a kid sitting on another's shoulders beneath a big and tall trenchcoat all this time.


Cralius the Dark wrote:
Where's the ad campaign? The commercials?

Right HERE of course!

Sorry, just had to ;)


Sebastian wrote:
This is no longer true - there are a ton of good rpg video games which are much more immersive and fun than anything available to me as a child. Honestly, I don't think I'd be a D&D player if I had access to today's games and the internet as a child.

I agree with your statement inasmuch as the Internet is concerned. When I was a young geek looking for friends, D&D was the great bringer-togetherer.

Now, it's the Internet, and the easiest thing to play on the Internet is... well, you and your Level 70 Night Elf Ranger probably know what it is. ;)

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
veector wrote:
Cralius the Dark wrote:
Where's the ad campaign? The commercials?

Right HERE of course!

Sorry, just had to ;)

Nice. But that's the "newer" one. Isn't there an older one that basically created the bad image of gamers?

Contributor

You know, I keep hearing how the industry is dying and how there aren't any young players getting involved, but the fact is that my brother in-law started gaming about seven years ago and now has a D&D group (no 4th edition for him either) with nine kids his own age in it. I think he's 23 or 24 years old now. I also know that the same people who were playing RPGs when I was in highschool still play them. I know this because I game with them. From my perspective, it looks like there are more people playing tabletop RPGs than ever before.

I'm not saying that my experience is common throughout the country, but I just don't it's a case of people not playing. I think it's far more likely that people aren't buying games for the following reasons:

* They see no reason to keep buying more games when the games they play work just fine for them.

* They buy one game system only and that one game system shall satisfy their gaming needs forever and ever and ever, amen (at least until Wizards puts out a new edition).

* They rely on their DMs to provide the books, so there is only one purchase where once there were four or five people buying at least the PHB/player core book.

* Pirating PDfs. You can be against it all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that people like their PDFs and people increasingly engage in downloading stuff they didn't buy. If that weren't true then how were people checking out the 4th edition rules before they were released? They can then go and print out whatever sections they need for their characters and otherwise game without lugging clunky books everywhere.

I think that if you really want the RPG industry to bounce back, you have to make the old material self destruct. Companies try to do this through edition change, but the fact is that there are a lot of people, many of whom are on this board, who will reject the new edition and will either choose a substitute or an alternate game.

My prediction was that 4th edition was going to revitalize the industry, but after seeing the GSL and how nobody is publishing under it, I think the only one that it's going to revitalize is WotC, and it might not even be doing that for them (in fact, I predict that 4E isn't doing anywhere near 3E numbers).

What tabletop gaming needs is a fad. The problem is that you can't predict fads. They just come and go, and are usually due to the perfect storm of originality, marketing, and striking a chord with kids. In the even of a fad, it will likely be something that doesn't appeal to us gaming traditionalists. Think Pokemon RPG. Such a thing could end up being a good gateway product into D&D (or PRPG), but it will not be immediately beneficial to the hobby. A number of the players acquired will also drop out once the fad has run its course.

All that said, I'm an optimist. I think that the RPG industry will be around decades from now, though it may continue to shrink until it consists of a few companies that supply material, and a bunch of crotchety old codgers playing the game in the nursing homes.


I think this thread points out a way. Leverage the internet.

An idea I have been entertaining lately is to create ‘introduction to RPGs’ and ‘how to game’ videos on YouTube!

For example, something like a multi-part series of videos posted on YouTube teaching ‘how to play Pathfinder' or 'how to play Trinity' would be revolutionary.

If you have the talent this door seems to be standing wide open. Alas, I do not. My movie making aspirations ended about 20 years ago with botched attempts at stop-motion animation with iron figures.

Liberty's Edge

Tensor wrote:

My movie making aspirations ended about 20 years ago with botched attempts at stop-motion animation with iron figures.

That sounds painful.


Heathansson wrote:
Tensor wrote:
My movie making aspirations ended about 20 years ago with botched attempts at stop-motion animation with iron figures.
That sounds painful.

The old wound has never fully healed.

Dark Archive

Eh I think we gotta look at the original quote and the arguments that are being laid out. The original quote is talking about pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons. Now, am I to take "tabletop game industry" to mean JUST DnD/pen n paper? I'm assuming we're including things such as wargaming, CCG's, etc (even though I hate CCG).

If we're strictly talking about pen and paper, it's definitely in decline. Once ya start to talk about their minis games and the CCG's, I'd say that the hobby has grown. Those minis gotta be dirt cheap to make heh.

And I agree with Sebastian heh. You're competing with video games and online MMO games these days. Most kids aren't going to pick up DnD and such anymore. I remember back in '85 quite a few played DnD, heck it was popular with quite a few of us at elementary school, we were all imitating the middle school kids playing it. These days it seems to be mostly adults playing.


Yay, I don't think most kids will read an 100+ page book to learn how to play a game. Hence my video idea.

Liberty's Edge

Here's a story for you:

A couple of days ago, I was on break at the library checking the latest updates on Kevin Burkhalter's Journal Comic and laughing my ass off. There were two young kids on the computer next to me playing some sort of free online RPG (DragonQuest? I think that was the name).

After a few minutes, one of them confronted me, thinking I was laughing at them. I explained, in fact, that I was laughing at Kevin's Journal Comic. I then proceeded to ask them what they were playing, launching into a short discussion on fantasy RPG video games. I mentioned that I played D&D, and one of them asked what it was. I told them, and they seemed interested.

It was kind of interesting to see possible new blood, especially in a small town. There's hope for the future.


I copied this from the YouTube thread:

" Dungeons and Dragons game TV commercial early 1980s ".

Sovereign Court

Jal Dorak wrote:
However, you do know that Dickens was originally published in a monthly magazine?

Yes I'm aware that nearly all of Dickens works were released in monthly magazines, however my exposure to Dickens was not in that format but rather in hardback book form.

And I know the book industry has been doing adverts in books for years, a practice that I don't like but its the commercialization of the print industry and that can not be avoided.

I'm a huge bibiliophile and have some cherished books in my collection. Most of them don't have a monetary value, but rather a sentimental value.

One thing that concerns me the most is the lack of reading that takes place. And I'm generalizing here so don't flame me, this is opinion, but for the most part the average American doesn't read books. Magazines, Newspapers definitely but book readers aren't common. However I am a strong believer in that you haven't read a book within the past 30 days then you probably don't have anything I would consider worthwhile to say.

So advertising the next book in the series in the book is probably a waste of time, because if I read the book and liked the book, the internet is a wonderful tool to look up what else the person has written. And if I don't read books, an advertisement in a book isn't going to entice me to read books, you follow?

Sorry if I've offended anyone.. I'm passionate about books :)

Just some of my thoughts
Trent
Infinet Media & Design

Scarab Sages

doppelganger wrote:
Jal Dorak wrote:


My kids are getting wood blocks and RPGs for toys.
You are a cruel, cruel father. You could at least get them some carving tools so they can make minis out of the wooden blocks! Or are they supposed to figure that out on their own?

They get miniatures when they are old enough not to choke on them. And once they understand that you can play RPGs without* them.

If I give them carving tools, they'll just stab each-other with them, or use them to carve bigger knives out of wood and stab with those. Wood blocks are dangerous for kids! I changed my mind, my kids get nothing! ;)

*Says the guy with thousands of dollars worth of minis...but I don't need them, honest.

Sovereign Court

Jal Dorak wrote:


My kids are getting wood blocks and RPGs for toys.

I do think that education starts at home and your children learn the traits they have. If you ignore them and sit them in front of the PS/Xbox/Nintendo/Computer then you get a type of response.

If you read to them, play games with them, they they have a deeper appreciation for these things. At least until they turn 16 and everything you say and do "stinks".

2 cents more
Trent

Liberty's Edge

re: topic.

die? no, i dont think it'll ever "die".

be relegated to an industry of boutique publishers with a small, hardcore following? probably...

Sovereign Court

Sebastian wrote:
To think the hobby can't die or is the equivalent of great institutions is naieve.

The fantasy roleplay game is part of our collective unconscious now. Our game holds the window open, Sebastian. And the temporal world has no sway to close this window. I do not disagree the hobby has been in decline, after 911 many gamestores and other companies closed their doors because, understandably, people weren't in the mood for games in those days.

I speak of the immortality of our game in terms of its essence, not its headcount in numbers, because the theatrics of roleplay existed before human language came to be, and would exist after cities fall and societies crumble, as perhaps the first means to re-establish communication once again. A thread of the immortal is present every time two or more gather, and our game does not wholly belong to this earth—the game holds sway over spirit which is all times and all places. The archetypes of our game have been recorded for thousands of years! My friend, it is not I who is naieve.


Trent Slabaugh wrote:


So advertising the next book in the series in the book is probably a waste of time, because if I read the book and liked the book, the internet is a wonderful tool to look up what else the person has written. And if I don't read books, an advertisement in a book isn't going to entice me to read books, you follow?

I'm not sure I really like advertising in books per se but I definitly use lists near the start of a book to see what else an authour has done. I find this especially invaluable in the case where a book is part f a series.

Scarab Sages

Found this advert for the boardgame on youtube; it definitely sounds more kick-ass when described in German.

Dark Archive

Pax Veritas wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
To think the hobby can't die or is the equivalent of great institutions is naieve.
The archetypes of our game have been recorded for thousands of years! My friend, it is not I who is naieve.

Eh I think you're getting a little far afield with that line of thinking. It's great and all don't get me wrong, but I definitely think the game is dying out or changing into things which I don't care for.

We're talking about the death of the game where a group of 4 or more lads (let's be honest typically that's the case) sit around, kicking down doors and looting while quaffing large quantities of their choice of drink.

I'm not sure if it's the lack of advertising that's killing the game. It's all a matter of other options being open. Fantasy gamers have much easier accessible means to satiate their orc killing urges, what with Xbox and such.


I don't see that happening, but I do see a continued move toward e-publishing. I happened to be looking at Star Wars-Threats of the Galaxy in Barnes yesterday. It's a really nice book, but almost 40 bucks-and for something very slim. Even on Ama it would be over 25 with shipping. To me and a lot of other people, that's just too expensive. I would likely pay for the content if it were offered as a much cheaper PDF.


Tensor wrote:

I copied this from the YouTube thread:

" Dungeons and Dragons game TV commercial early 1980s ".

There are some seriously funny videos linked to that one! I had no idea...


Jal Dorak wrote:

Well,

To touch on Dopplegangsters recent post, parenting is the root problem - lazy parenting force-fed technology by an consumer-driven society. Video games aren't the problem, the parents who give their kids video games are the problem.

I work at our local Wal-Mart; where I see bad-parenting all the time. Case In Point: I make it a practice when a video game warning comes up and asks "Is the customer 17?" I'm looking at an eight-to-12-year-old moppet with a grandmother/father in tow. I point out the "Blood, Violence, Language, Adult Themes" warning on the back. Half the time- that's enough.

Responsible Parent: "Come on honey, let's go pick out another game."
Brat-in-training: "But I played it over at Joey's house, his mom didn't mind."
Responsible Parent: "That reminds me, I haven't talked to Sylvia lately..."

Other times...
Irresponsible Parent: "That's okay, (s)he's too young to know what it means anyway."

Right...


ok, here is my plan....NASCAR.

you put anything on the hood of a race car, and it will sell like hot cakes.

i listen to the NASCAR station on serius, (mostly just tounge in check, and there is no role playing station) its amazing. "i wont drink red bull because junior doesnt drive for red bull, he drives for amp, oh, and i made my son join the national guard too."

every driver has a following. so, you put dungeons and dragons on the hood of a race car, and you will have 100,000,000 people looking at it every single weekend. you put a hot driver in the seat, like a kyle bush, or dale ernhardt junior, you wont be able to print enough books.

all it will cost is 60 million dollars a year, and some amount of pride.


Darrin Drader wrote:
You know, I keep hearing how the industry is dying and how there aren't any young players getting involved, but the fact is that my brother in-law started gaming about seven years ago and now has a D&D group (no 4th edition for him either) with nine kids his own age in it. I think he's 23 or 24 years old now. I also know that the same people who were playing RPGs when I was in highschool still play them. I know this because I game with them. From my perspective, it looks like there are more people playing tabletop RPGs than ever before.

Me, again. My first experience with D&D was first edition at a Sci-Fi con in Louisville, Ky (102 miles away) back in the late 70's.

After that, I joined a (semi) local SF group in Lexington, Ky (36 miles away) for about 10 years.

Then I got married and my gaming attendance dwindled and died.

Four years later- I got divorced, and the dark clouds lifted...

(lest anyone think I'm saying marriage is the death of role play, no way! Several of my old Lexington group are married and still get together and game, nearly every Saturday night! It just didn't work out that way for me...)

I was talking to one of my co-workers about gaming and found he and three other co-workers already had a group and were looking for a 4th player...
That was ten years ago.

Our main DM has gotten married and is available less and less... so I started another group by being DM for two co-workers about six months ago. I'm getting one of the players from my Thursday Night 3.5 group joining my Wednesday Night Pathfinder group (as soon as he can make up his mind which dual-classes he wants!).

My point is... as long as there are players, and word of mouth, the games will continue. After all people still play skittles, a table game found at craft fairs.

Whether the industry will thrive- that remains to be seen.


donnald johnson wrote:

ok, here is my plan....NASCAR.

you put anything on the hood of a race car, and it will sell like hot cakes.

i listen to the NASCAR station on serius, (mostly just tounge in check, and there is no role playing station) its amazing. "i wont drink red bull because junior doesnt drive for red bull, he drives for amp, oh, and i made my son join the national guard too."

every driver has a following. so, you put dungeons and dragons on the hood of a race car, and you will have 100,000,000 people looking at it every single weekend. you put a hot driver in the seat, like a kyle bush, or dale ernhardt junior, you wont be able to print enough books.

all it will cost is 60 million dollars a year, and some amount of pride.

Oh, like when it became public knowledge that Vin Diesel plays D&D?


Tensor wrote:

I copied this from the YouTube thread:

" Dungeons and Dragons game TV commercial early 1980s ".

So... cool (despite that wholesome, overacting family)

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

The Jade wrote:
Snorter wrote:
The wood blocks are for tying to the bottom of their shoes, so they can appear tall enough to get into R-rated movies.
And here I've been wearing fake moustaches and sitting on the shoulders of a kid sitting on another's shoulders beneath a big and tall trenchcoat all this time.

As the kid at the bottom, I must say, I've built a lot of strength in my shoulders and thighs. I've also learnt to lift with my legs and not with my back.

What movie are we seeing today, boss?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You know I don't quite get the violence in media turning children into bratty forces of evil argument. I'm 30 years old. I manage a business. I have a Bachelors in Arts and I'm a year away from becoming a CPA. Disney movies weren't shown in my home while I was growing up. My mother took me to see Nightmare on Elm Street 3 at the theaters when I was ten or eleven. When asked "what is my favorite movie" by my first grade catholic school teacher I enthusiastically replied "The Godfather." Strangely enough, the only thing that ever phased my parents is when I discovered Dungeons and Dragons in the 7th grade. After I explained away the crazed satanic influences the game supposedly induced, my parents who always respected my opinions, even as a kid, let it be. My younger brother, growing up in the rise of the video game generation plunged his thumb calloused hands into every violent, bloody game on the market. Worse yet, my brother read every one of the 80s conan novels complete with sex, slasher violence, and half naked women splashed on the covers by the 2nd grade. His third grade book report on Conan the Relentless raised some eyebrows. My parents were proud he was reading such involved books. We had no curfews growing up. Despite all of this we were both straight A students. We are both successful. More importantly we always respected our parents. I dated a girl in high school who grew up on a diet of Disney movies. The first disney movie I ever witnessed was Beauty and the Beast when I was 16. Absolutely horrific if you ask me....if dancing silverware isn't the sign of the beast, I don't know what is. She was sheltered from anything rated R. She was sheltered from anything that smacked of adult content. When she finally graduated high school, she was so poorly adjusted to how the real world functioned, she failed out of college and returned home.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

IMO, the best way to advertise is to make products that reach the kids today. Pathfinder novels or comic books won't; Pathfinder manga will. Pathfinder website won't; Pathfinder myspace/facebook will.

I always wondered why WotC decided to go MMO, a Wii game would work much better. They don't have to maintain servers, nintendo can take care of that (or however it works with the Wii), and they can get nearly the same functionality with it.

Liberty's Edge

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Tensor wrote:

I copied this from the YouTube thread:

" Dungeons and Dragons game TV commercial early 1980s ".

Was this one ever shown on TV?

Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition TV Ad

Behind the Scenes

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