Dimension Door and then Stop


Combat & Magic


I didn’t see any revision for the Dimension Door spell, so I’m assuming Pathfinder intends to leave it as is.

There’s a minor change that needs to be made to that spell. There’s a phrase “After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn.” that really needs to not be there. Why is this stipulation here? No other teleportation effect in the entire game has this stipulation, so why Dimension Door?

Dimension Hop? No.
Dimension Swap? No.
Dimension Slide? No.
Dimension Shuffle? No.
Shadow Stride? No.
Shadow Blink? No.
Shadow Jaunt? No.
Teleport? No.
Greater Teleport? No.
Teleportation Circle? No.

So unless there is something gamebreaking about allowing you to do stuff that you would otherwise have the actions to do anyway after using this spell that’s perfectly fine with every other teleportation effect in the entire game, then this caveat needs to be taken out.


I fear you're comparing apples with oranges. With the exception of the Teleport spell line, which is imho a whole different class of spells, none of the other examples are in scope for the Pathfinder RPG and most are not even spells.
That said, I also think it wouldn't be gamebreaking to change Dimension Door.

Edit: Except Greater Dimension Door(SC) I can't think of a spell that can teleport(as in X feet, not miles) more than two creatures at once.


Tholas wrote:
Edit: Except Greater Dimension Door(SC) I can't think of a spell that can teleport(as in X feet, not miles) more than two creatures at once.

Perhaps this is what you meant, but Dimension Door also allows multiple creatures at once.

As for the OP's objection, I feel Dimension Door is well balanced with the proscription from acting after casting the spell. The other spells mentioned (besides the teleport line) are not Core (though the psionic versions of most are in the SRD), and not the best for comparison.

However you're quite right about the disparity with the other Dimension spells - they likely should have the same penalty (except Swap wouldn't make sense of course).


Majuba wrote:
Tholas wrote:
Edit: Except Greater Dimension Door(SC) I can't think of a spell that can teleport(as in X feet, not miles) more than two creatures at once.

Perhaps this is what you meant, but Dimension Door also allows multiple creatures at once.

Of course, I was thinking about non-SRD spells.

Majuba wrote:


The other spells mentioned (besides the teleport line) are not Core (though the psionic versions of most are in the SRD), and not the best for comparison.

Agreed:

Shadow Stride, Blink and Jaunt are self only maneuvers out of ToB.
Dimension Swap, Slide are psionic powers. Slide is self only, Shuffle swaps two creatures.
Dimension Hop(PH2) is an `one touched person` only spell.
Dimension Shuffle(PH2) finally fits the bill. But it's one level higher, really short range and the creatures affected don't need to touch each other.

Scarab Sages

There is also Shuffle from Shining South - it allows a short-range teleport (I think it's 5'/2CL) as a move action. It sounds like the OP wants to use Dim Door for this kind of activity.

Out of interest... what else would you do even if you could perform some other action after using Dimension Door? Unless you're going to quicken it (making it an 8th level spell slot!) then you've used your standard action to cast the spell already. I suppose you could try to use Dim Door as your standard action, then do a move (or move equivalent) once you arrive... but I'm just wondering what application you're trying to fit Dim Door into, I guess.

I suspect that line is in the description to reduce its utility as a tactical spell.

Oh, there is also another spell called Knight's Move from Spell Compendium that is intended for tactical use. It's a swift action, Cleric 3 Paladin 2, and you have to end your "move" flanking an enemy. It's actually a very cool spell... the cleric in our party uses it frequently.

Anyhow, I am fine with Dim Door providing that limitation.


The following is my opinion and conjecture, not "actual knowledge" read or gleaned from any official source.

Dim Door had the action limitation because Haste used to give you an actual action (rather than just an extra attack). DD+ haste would allow for some relatively fun tricks to be had.

DD and full attack, or DD+move+attack and such.

Since you can only move now after casting the spell anyway, unless you burn an 8th level spell slot, I can't see any actual purpose to keeping the action limitation on there.

Is the spell broken as is? Not really.
But unless someone can come up with some sort of broken issue with DD+movement or whatnot, I see no reason it shouldn't be changed.

-S

Liberty's Edge

Plus, of course, its current formulation really hoses monks.


It hoses Monks, Warlocks, Incarnum-users, Psychic characters, and anyone else that has an ability that says "As the spell Dimension Door."

A round represents six seconds of time. Your turn represents your use of those six seconds. If I were to take a full round's worth of actions, then Quicken Spell Dimension Door, then there's no break in between the actions of my turn this round and my actions in the next round. If I used my Quicken Spell Dimension Door (or Quicken Spell-Like Ability, or Quicken Power) at the beginning of my turn, then what we have is a guy who teleports and then twiddles his thumbs for about six seconds and then suddenly springs to life again.

Why? Why these six seconds as opposed to the previous example? Because it's in the rules.

Well, I don't want to play a game where the only explanation of why something happens as it does is "Because that's what the rules say" or "For the sake of game mechanics". So if there were an in-game reason why one six seconds is different than another, that's fine. But if, as has been said above, this caveat is a carryover from 2e when the rules for spell interactions were different, then this phrase needs to not be there.

Scarab Sages

OK, as soon as someone breaks out the "what am I doing for the rest of the six seconds?!" question, it's gone beyond having any acceptable answer. It's an abstraction. Just like when you're first level, and you get to swing a sword one time - what do I do with the other 5.9 seconds? That is rationalized by saying that you are constantly moving around, etc, and can effectively get a single strike in somewhere along the six second span of a round.

Why can't you just rationalize it the same way with Dim Door? And as long as everyone is using the same rules for Dim Door (and, to be honest, with all those other classes saying "as dim door" that really makes me think they knew exactly what were the limitations of the spell when they kept using it over and over, and fully intended it to work as it is written), then nobody is getting more hosed than anyone else.

Make up your own answer as to "why" - but no matter what the reason is, it still boils down to "that's how the rules are written" and anything else is just a rationalization.


hmarcbower wrote:

OK, as soon as someone breaks out the "what am I doing for the rest of the six seconds?!" question, it's gone beyond having any acceptable answer. It's an abstraction. Just like when you're first level, and you get to swing a sword one time - what do I do with the other 5.9 seconds? That is rationalized by saying that you are constantly moving around, etc, and can effectively get a single strike in somewhere along the six second span of a round.

Why can't you just rationalize it the same way with Dim Door? And as long as everyone is using the same rules for Dim Door (and, to be honest, with all those other classes saying "as dim door" that really makes me think they knew exactly what were the limitations of the spell when they kept using it over and over, and fully intended it to work as it is written), then nobody is getting more hosed than anyone else.

Make up your own answer as to "why" - but no matter what the reason is, it still boils down to "that's how the rules are written" and anything else is just a rationalization.

Swing a sword = Standard action. Fill in the remainder (a Move action) with whatever move action you want. Because you've swung the sword first rather than later doesn't mean you can't do anything for the rest of the round.

Why can't I just rationalize it the same way with Dim Door? Because I don't see why I need to. Why doesn't every Teleportation effect (PHB or later) have this same stipulation? What is so gamebreaking about acting after this teleportation effect that is perfectly acceptable everywhere else? And if there isn't anything gamebreaking about it (or even a game hiccup), then why shouldn't it be changed?

It's an abstraction. Well, casting Fireball at someone and Quicken Dim Dooring out of there is an abstraction we can have in the game, but Quicken Dim Dooring in the middle of the enemy camp and then casting Fireball at all the sleeping (helpless) bodies can't be done? Especially when I (a couple of levels or so later) can do the same thing with Teleport, and whether the abstraction is of 'porting in and nuking everyone or nuking everyone and then 'porting out, it's still allowed. Why not Dim Door?

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