Zuggtmoy the Hottie


Dragon Magazine General Discussion


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I don't know if I'm a bit late to discuss this, but I just recently picked up the PDF copy of Dragon 337, and I've enjoyed the article on Zuggtmoy thoroughly... except that it's a guilty sort of enjoyment.

Although from looking at the cover of the issue, I get the feeling I now know what a female naughty-tentacle-hentai-demon looks like (not necessarily a bad thing to know,) I like the overall creepy imagery she presents. Not sure her appearance says 'fungi,' but I like it as an overall image. And I deeply enjoy the idea of The Fecund Mother of All Things Evil Which Rot the World. Taking an aspect of cold impersonal nature and rendering it with a malignant, calculating, cruel,(which I think we often suspect is there in the natural world, even if it is irrational.) and entropic drive is delicious in its possibilities for evoking a mythic/superstitious/horror feel. In fact, the PCs in the game I'm currently running just ventured into the Styes( Yes, those Styes,) and...

The Styes Spoiler below:

Spoiler:
...I'm considering changing it so an aspect of Zuggtmoy, not the Stitcher of Souls, is the fiend running the show, rotting the dying city from the inside out.

Which brings me to my problem.

Zuggtmoy's a hottie.

I'm not wholey comfortable with that.

Now I know it's my game so I can change whatever I want within the reasonable expectations of what my players look for from D&D, so this is more of a critisism than anything else.

But, heck, it's a quandry, anyway. I like the way current Zuggtmoy looks, and I would enjoy sending my PCs up against something like that. But I'm aware of what she looked like in earlier editions, and it's pretty obvious she's been hotcha'd up to appeal to the masses. And if I use the current version of her, I'm perpetuating the sexist stereotype that fantasy females (even incarnations of -decay!-) have to be 'Teh Hot.' I mean, we don't see Jubilex with big Conan pecs glistening with oil-er-slime.

It's the same kind of thing that annoys me with the Fiendish Codex 2, where they replaced the Hag Countess with Glasya. Talk all they want about fiendish coups and the like, the real motivation seemed to be making sure all the girl Archdevils give geeks instant b-... never mind.

I'm going to stop there, or things are going to get tangental.

So... I've given my feedback. I welcome yours. Am I making too big a deal of it? Any advice on putting her in the game without feeling guilty about it?

Scarab Sages

The best way to not feel guilty about something is to rationalize it...same thing i do every month with my visa statement. Now, I'm not entirely up to scratch on my Zuggtmoy lore and don't have access to dragon right now, but I'll do what I can. She is a high level creature, correct? challenge rating in the 30s or so? I take this to mean she can pretty much have any appearence she wants. after all, you don't even need to be a high leveled druid and you can prance around like a bear pretty much 24/7 if you want. And if she can have any appearence she wants, then why not one that embodies attractiveness? Or possibly that attractive veneer is merely an illusion to entice people to her. women with the promise of similar looks and men with the promise of...other things. Like high school all over again, the age old mentiality of the good looking get everything isn't a new thing. It's been around a while. Also, It is possible that as the demon princess of decay (IIRC) she is also interested in the decay of minds as well as matter. if this is the case, then wouldn't she like to see supposed intellectuals and average people succumbing to their baser instincts?

The topic of scantily clad and overly endowed and surrealistically attractive women in fantasy is a debate that's been going on a long time. there are other threads that discuss it, but it basically boils down to what you're comfortable with. I personally don't have a problem showing it at my table, bgut if your players are maybe more prudish or whatnot then maybe you don't need to show it at all. describe her appearence with words and don't emphasize her more scandalous attributes.

And as a sidenote, the proper spelling is Juiblex, not Jubilex, and even I can't rationalize why the demon prince of ooze and slime would have pecs. Now, if the Demon prince of ugliness were good looking, then i'd say we have a problem.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
kessukoofah wrote:
She is a high level creature, correct? challenge rating in the 30s or so? I take this to mean she can pretty much have any appearence she wants. after all, you don't even need to be a high leveled druid and you can prance around like a bear pretty much 24/7 if you want. And if she can have any appearence she wants, then why not one that embodies attractiveness? Or possibly that attractive veneer is merely an illusion to entice people to her. women with the promise of similar looks and men with the promise of...other things. Like high school all over again, the age old mentiality of the good looking get everything isn't a new thing. It's been around a while. It's been around a while. Also, It is possible that as the demon princess of decay (IIRC) she is also interested in the decay of minds as well as matter. if this is the case, then wouldn't she like to see supposed intellectuals and average people succumbing to their baser instincts?

CR 25, but that's close enough, eh? Actually, those are pretty decent points, though I tend to think rationally the promise of jock itch would outweigh what promises her body implies. But... yeah... if you're a demon looking to start and run cults (which she's actually rather infamous for working hard at,) you're looking to sell your ideas, and sexy sells. She might want to worry about stepping on the Queen of Succubi's turf when it comes to the decay of minds to baser desires, though.

kessukoofah wrote:


The topic of scantily clad and overly endowed and surrealistically attractive women in fantasy is a debate that's been going on a long time. there are other threads that discuss it, but it basically boils down to what you're comfortable with. I personally don't have a problem showing it at my table, bgut if your players are maybe more prudish or whatnot then maybe you don't need to show it at all.

To be fair, I'm the last person to suggest anything against surrealistically attractive women. I'm rather fond of them, actually, and I think that high forehead and those antlers of hers are a very fetching look on a girl. And my group certainly aren't prudes. It features two players playing changelings who disguised themselves as prostitutes to sneak into the home of an undead pervert.

I don't shy from sexual themes. It's just that Zuggtmoy's transformation between editions from vaguely anthropomorphic puffball fungus to curvy girl seems to imply certain things about what a villainess's got to be to get places in this D&D business. Which I have to admit, also applies in game, from your previous quote, but then I tend to prefer logical in game reasons to just knowing it's easier to market boobs to gamers.

(Grant you, her old puffball form might not be as intimidating to some players. Personally, I would go with something vaguely like a titanic nightmare Triffid for a Demon Queen of Fungus.)

kessukoofah wrote:


And as a sidenote, the proper spelling is Juiblex, not Jubilex, and even I can't rationalize why the demon prince of ooze and slime would have pecs.

You know, I always get that name wrong, somehow. And Juibly's her eternal rival, if she gets to have puffballs... I mean, breasts, why shouldn't he get pecs? I mean, he provides the oil for them and everything!

Scarab Sages

Drakli wrote:

...[To be fair, I'm the last person to suggest anything against surrealistically attractive women. I'm rather fond of them, actually, and I think that high forehead and those antlers of hers are a very fetching look on a girl. And my group certainly aren't prudes. It features two players playing changelings who disguised themselves as prostitutes to sneak into the home of an undead pervert.

I don't shy from sexual themes. It's just that Zuggtmoy's transformation between editions from vaguely anthropomorphic puffball fungus to curvy girl seems to imply certain things about what a villainess's got to be to get places in this D&D business. Which I have to admit, also applies in game, from your previous quote, but then I tend to prefer logical in game reasons to just knowing it's easier to market boobs to gamers.

I would have to agree with you there. I myself have shown some worry over this trend. Then I chalked it up to "meh. She can look however I want her to. That's one interpretation." (not necessarily just zuggtmoy. that logic applies to anyone). Not really an answer, but I don't really have one. Do you have more examples, or was it just the two?

I also play with the changing form thing a lot in game and my players love it. Having Asmodeus himself appear as a little carrollian girl just to threaten one of the PCs, when he had done nothing wrong or anything to anger him. Priceless.

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