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I read the Blog this morning and saw that some spells had to be cut from the Beta print edition due to space concerns and that those spells would be available as a web enhancement for free here at Paizo. My quetion is this.... Will those spells be part of the final print edition next August? If it's an issue of space, I would be happy to pay an extra 10 or 20 dollars on the final release to be sure to have all the spells from the PHB in that product. Do you guys have a sense of that at this point? Is it likely that there will be spells left on the cutting room floor in the final release? I understand that we are still a year away from the final release being out and if you guys haven't thought about this question yet, no worries. I can wait and see, but it is something I wanted to ask about when it occured to me reading the Blog this morning. Keep up the great work!!
In terms of the print version next August, I'm fairly certain that it's already AT the printers, and so any spells removed can't be added back in yet.
By "next August", he means "August next year" when the final (non-Beta) version is due to come out.
From what I've heard, the final edition should have everything you need to play, including all of the spells from the 3.5 SRD.
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It was also said that all the stuff that was left out would be in a few web enhancement PDF when the Beta is released.
Jason Wrote:
"Due to space concerns, some of the spells and magic items were cut, but will be available in a free web enhancement for the book, due out at the same time the Beta Playtest Edition is released."
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In terms of the print version next August, I'm fairly certain that it's already AT the printers, and so any spells removed can't be added back in yet.By "next August", he means "August next year" when the final (non-Beta) version is due to come out.
From what I've heard, the final edition should have everything you need to play, including all of the spells from the 3.5 SRD.
Well, except the ones invalidated by the new rules.
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In terms of the print version next August, I'm fairly certain that it's already AT the printers, and so any spells removed can't be added back in yet.By "next August", he means "August next year" when the final (non-Beta) version is due to come out.
From what I've heard, the final edition should have everything you need to play, including all of the spells from the 3.5 SRD.
Sorry, when I see "Next August", I think of the August coming up...Next month. :) But yeah, I heard that too, though I imagine some spells will be invalidated by the new rules. I was mostly curious to see the biggest changes/drops.
CEO
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I read the Blog this morning and saw that some spells had to be cut from the Beta print edition due to space concerns and that those spells would be available as a web enhancement for free here at Paizo. My quetion is this.... Will those spells be part of the final print edition next August? If it's an issue of space, I would be happy to pay an extra 10 or 20 dollars on the final release to be sure to have all the spells from the PHB in that product. Do you guys have a sense of that at this point? Is it likely that there will be spells left on the cutting room floor in the final release? I understand that we are still a year away from the final release being out and if you guys haven't thought about this question yet, no worries. I can wait and see, but it is something I wanted to ask about when it occured to me reading the Blog this morning. Keep up the great work!!
The plan is to have all those spells in the final product and even more stuff. We had to keep the page count down a bit because of the low price point for the Beta. We really wanted to encourage folks to playtest, so the price had to be low. But for the final book, we can bump the price up a bit and put in more pages, so Jason will have more room to play with. :)
-Lisa
The plan is to have all those spells in the final product and even more stuff.
Panda-men, steam pistols, and essays on magical economics?! SQUEEE!!!
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Director of Game Design
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Lisa is right here. They were cut from the Beta to keep the page count down (well, as much as one can for a 400 page book), but all of the spells will be in the final next August, unless of course, they are removed for other reasons.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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Hmm, this brings up an interesting point - with Pathfinder pulling subject material from the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and (to some extent) the Monster Manual, will one book be sufficient to contain it? I imagine with the Pathfinder RPG final release in August 2009, we could be looking at a 450+ page book (plus a potential web supplement?).
I guess I'm asking: if we see a significant increase in page count due to Beta feedback, could we be looking at two books?
Whether one or two, I'll be buying...
Hmm, this brings up an interesting point - with Pathfinder pulling subject material from the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and (to some extent) the Monster Manual, will one book be sufficient to contain it? I imagine with the Pathfinder RPG final release in August 2009, we could be looking at a 450+ page book (plus a potential web supplement?).
I guess I'm asking: if we see a significant increase in page count due to Beta feedback, could we be looking at two books?
Whether one or two, I'll be buying...
Hmm, I don't recall where the thread is. At one point I think Vic or James mentioned a page count of 500+ for the hardcover in '09. One monster book. Wear it inside your shirt in case you get shot.
Will beta be in PDF format also and if so what will be the cost? Sorry if this has been asked before.
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Creative Director
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The final Pathfinder RPG will be huge. 500 to 600 pages. Not sure HOW many. But huge indeed. I suspect that it won't contain any monster stats, though, or if it does, it'll be a VERY small number of monsters. Which is kinda a waste of space, I think. Better to have all the rules in that one immense book and then have the monster book be a separate book.
Anyway... how it all shakes out in the end is still a distant future worry! :)
I am happy that the final version will be 'complete' (as in containing all the spells). Web enhancements are great, but having only one book to reference has significant advantages for sessions where I do not use my computer. When using a computer a hyper-text format is the best for me, but I realize that is not feasible for the Pathfinder RPG due to copy protection reasons.
Hmmm, I was wondering, is there any chance of making the playtest forums a little more organized for the beta? I think the Alpha forums were find for hacking out the frame work but a year of playtesting the Beta leading to the final release well... I think it would be nice to have things a little more organized, perhaps templates and a thread for game reports, set threads for various aspects of the game and anything else that might prevent the forums from becoming bogged down. Perhaps even.... though I doubt this would occur, a separate forum site.
Just a thought.
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I think having a single book with the PHB and DMG in one is going to be awesome. I do think it makes the most sense to have the RPG book strictly be the stuff in those two books though without any actual monster stats. Personally, I would like to see a 500-600 page monster book once all is said and done with the Monster Manual and some of Paizo's own creations in there as well (Rune Giants anyone?). In any event, I've got no problem paying for a massive book like that when I know the quality of material that it will contain. You guys at Paizo have this thing down to an art form. I can't wait.
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The final Pathfinder RPG will be huge. 500 to 600 pages. Not sure HOW many. But huge indeed. I suspect that it won't contain any monster stats, though, or if it does, it'll be a VERY small number of monsters. Which is kinda a waste of space, I think. Better to have all the rules in that one immense book and then have the monster book be a separate book.
Anyway... how it all shakes out in the end is still a distant future worry! :)
Huge is good. Immense is aweome. No monsters in IMMENSE book is even better. Separate monster book is best. :)
Anyone have a spell that can fast forward us 1 year?
Hmmm, I was wondering, is there any chance of making the playtest forums a little more organized for the beta? I think the Alpha forums were find for hacking out the frame work but a year of playtesting the Beta leading to the final release well... I think it would be nice to have things a little more organized, perhaps templates and a thread for game reports, set threads for various aspects of the game and anything else that might prevent the forums from becoming bogged down. Perhaps even.... though I doubt this would occur, a separate forum site.
Just a thought.
Seconded.
Signal-to-noise ratio could be greatly enhanced by something similar to a software development bug report. Designers post tickets they want to see tested with specific points to watch for, and people post playtest reports based on those specific tickets.
It's beta now, you can be more precise.
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Creative Director
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I think having a single book with the PHB and DMG in one is going to be awesome. I do think it makes the most sense to have the RPG book strictly be the stuff in those two books though without any actual monster stats. Personally, I would like to see a 500-600 page monster book once all is said and done with the Monster Manual and some of Paizo's own creations in there as well (Rune Giants anyone?). In any event, I've got no problem paying for a massive book like that when I know the quality of material that it will contain. You guys at Paizo have this thing down to an art form. I can't wait.
The core monster book (which would reprint the SRD monsters at the very least) could have more monsters... but Golarion-specific monsters like rune giants would probably NOT be included. There's enough monsters in the SRD and in sources like Tome of Horrors that need to be in the baseline monster book already.
I'd rather collect the Golarion-specific monsters in an entirely different book.
ok, SRD monster book, Golarian monster book. Yup, where do I preorder?
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The final Pathfinder RPG will be huge. 500 to 600 pages. Not sure HOW many. But huge indeed. I suspect that it won't contain any monster stats, though, or if it does, it'll be a VERY small number of monsters. Which is kinda a waste of space, I think. Better to have all the rules in that one immense book and then have the monster book be a separate book.
Anyway... how it all shakes out in the end is still a distant future worry! :)
YES! Best part is, if I put it on the backseat of my car, I don't have 3+ books sliding around all over the place. Plus, when I DM, I only need one book.
Now, to rip the magic items and monsters out of all my players' copies! Mwahaha!
Personally, if you do (hopefully when you do) a monster book I think it's one area where you could cut back. On the number of monsters anyway. I'd rather see each monster get a treatment like they did in Classic Monsters Revisited than just a one page blurb / illustration. Some people might get upset if their favorite odd monster got cut (we all know who we are there) but I think the level of detail would make the monsters included much more fun / useful...
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Creative Director
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Personally, if you do (hopefully when you do) a monster book I think it's one area where you could cut back. On the number of monsters anyway. I'd rather see each monster get a treatment like they did in Classic Monsters Revisited than just a one page blurb / illustration. Some people might get upset if their favorite odd monster got cut (we all know who we are there) but I think the level of detail would make the monsters included much more fun / useful...
For the base monster book, there's NOT going to be much flavor text. It's supposed to be a world-neutral book, after all, and having a large stable of monsters in one book is an absolute must for the design of adventures. Since any monster that ends up in the core monster book doesn't need its stat block reprinted in an adventure... having more monsters in that book means we have more to choose from in adventures and therefore don't have to use up as much room in adventures with stat blocks.
Additional monster books beyond this giant core book (like, perhaps, a Golarion monster book) would not follow this style. I'd probably want to have each monster get a 2-page entry, just like they get in the Pathfinder Bestiary.
But the core monster book is going to be an exercise in "how many monsters can we cram in there and still make it look cool?" We've got plenty of room in Pathfinder or new "Monsters Revisited" books to pad them out with flavor, after all! :)
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But the core monster book is going to be an exercise in "how many monsters can we cram in there and still make it look cool?" We've got plenty of room in Pathfinder or new "Monsters Revisited" books to pad them out with flavor, after all! :)
Is it possible to get a picture of every monster? This was a big problem in the 3.0 MM, and somewhat in later books. Sometimes you just can't picture a Tojanida in your head.
For the base monster book, there's NOT going to be much flavor text. It's supposed to be a world-neutral book, after all, and having a large stable of monsters in one book is an absolute must for the design of adventures. Since any monster that ends up in the core monster book doesn't need its stat block reprinted in an adventure... having more monsters in that book means we have more to choose from in adventures and therefore don't have to use up as much room in adventures with stat blocks.
Additional monster books beyond this giant core book (like, perhaps, a Golarion monster book) would not follow this style. I'd probably want to have each monster get a 2-page entry, just like they get in the Pathfinder Bestiary.
But the core monster book is going to be an exercise in "how many monsters can we cram in there and still make it look cool?" We've got plenty of room in Pathfinder or new "Monsters Revisited" books to pad them out with flavor, after all! :)
It's always fun to vote "yes" when what you want has already been decided as the way to go. So I am: Yes. (Monetary voting to follow.)
Is it possible to get a picture of every monster? This was a big problem in the 3.0 MM, and somewhat in later books. Sometimes you just can't picture a Tojanida in your head.
But the core monster book is going to be an exercise in "how many monsters can we cram in there and still make it look cool?" We've got plenty of room in Pathfinder or new "Monsters Revisited" books to pad them out with flavor, after all! :)
I'll vote on faith this time: Yes to comprehensive pictures.
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Personally, if you do (hopefully when you do) a monster book I think it's one area where you could cut back. On the number of monsters anyway. I'd rather see each monster get a treatment like they did in Classic Monsters Revisited than just a one page blurb / illustration. Some people might get upset if their favorite odd monster got cut (we all know who we are there) but I think the level of detail would make the monsters included much more fun / useful...For the base monster book, there's NOT going to be much flavor text. It's supposed to be a world-neutral book, after all, and having a large stable of monsters in one book is an absolute must for the design of adventures. Since any monster that ends up in the core monster book doesn't need its stat block reprinted in an adventure... having more monsters in that book means we have more to choose from in adventures and therefore don't have to use up as much room in adventures with stat blocks.
Additional monster books beyond this giant core book (like, perhaps, a Golarion monster book) would not follow this style. I'd probably want to have each monster get a 2-page entry, just like they get in the Pathfinder Bestiary.
But the core monster book is going to be an exercise in "how many monsters can we cram in there and still make it look cool?" We've got plenty of room in Pathfinder or new "Monsters Revisited" books to pad them out with flavor, after all! :)
This is the perfect idea IMHO. A huge Monster Book with the SRD, Tome of Horrors and some other generic monsters. Then do Golarion specific monster books (I can already see a Monsters of Golarion II, III, IV, etc.) with a more thorough treatment of the Golarion specific critters. I am salivating just thinking about it. If there is something I NEVER have enough of it is good monster books. Keep'em coming Dr. Jacobs and I will keep taking my medicine with a big grin on my face.
For the base monster book, there's NOT going to be much flavor text. It's supposed to be a world-neutral book, after all, and having a large stable of monsters in one book is an absolute must for the design of adventures. Since any monster that ends up in the core monster book doesn't need its stat block reprinted in an adventure... having more monsters in that book means we have more to choose from in adventures and therefore don't have to use up as much room in adventures with stat blocks.
Additional monster books beyond this giant core book (like, perhaps, a Golarion monster book) would not follow this style. I'd probably want to have each monster get a 2-page entry, just like they get in the Pathfinder Bestiary.
But the core monster book is going to be an exercise in "how many monsters can we cram in there and still make it look cool?" We've got plenty of room in Pathfinder or new "Monsters Revisited" books to pad them out with flavor, after all! :)
I can certainly see the logic in that and it should make adventures / etc. for PF easier to do. I'm still going to miss the detail and inventivness that went into your decriptions of standard monsters in the "revisited" book though. I've spent a lot of time fleshing out monsters and their cultures for my game and my players don't seem to miss the variety of monsters given the variety within each type... still I agree that's probably better for a setting specific works. And then there are those Monsters Revisited possibilities you mention... it's good.
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Creative Director
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Is it possible to get a picture of every monster? This was a big problem in the 3.0 MM, and somewhat in later books. Sometimes you just can't picture a Tojanida in your head.
But the core monster book is going to be an exercise in "how many monsters can we cram in there and still make it look cool?" We've got plenty of room in Pathfinder or new "Monsters Revisited" books to pad them out with flavor, after all! :)
Yes. It's very possible. It's also very expensive. We have tricks, though...
