One of the few things I do like about 4E is the fact that you can do all these special moves and still deal damage to your opponent. In 3E, that's rarely the case.
The character who trips an opponent (with Improved Trip), gets to attack the opponent he fells.
The character who disarms an opponent (with Improved Disarm), doesn't. Why?
The character who bull rushes an opponent across the room (with Improved Bull Rush) doesn't do anything but move his foe - maybe only 5 feet. Why doesn't he get to do any damage?
The character who grapples an opponent (with Improved Grapple) has to wait a round (or hope he's got multiple attacks) before he can attempt to start wailing on a foe he's got a hold of. Why can't he deal damage (like most creatures with Improved Grab) as he grabs his opponent?
And so on...
Why aren't we rewarding those characters who have taken these tricks - and are sacrificing dealing much needed damage - why aren't they getting these stunts as "in addition to dealing damage" rather than "instead of dealing damage" abilities?
Many wizards spells combine damage with special effects (ex. Evard's Black Tentacles), why can't the melee characters have any fun?
4Eer's complain that all 3E is a full-attack fest, when it really isn't. The option to do all the cool moves that have been packaged into 4E powers are already present in 3E, but they've been made inferior options to just straight up attacking and dealing damage. If we start letting the melee characters do their special maneuvers and still get their damage in, 3E then vastly one-ups 4E in the area of cool things to do.
And really, all 4E seems to have over 3E is a "cooler combat system", IMHO.
Probably because disarming an opponent - presumably removing his or her best weapon - was considered an investment in the next few rounds.
As for grapple, its likely because most characters lack effective natural weapons, meaning that grapple is mostly a restraining tactic.
Similarly, most of those options were considered powerful enough as they were, since you could keep trying them indefinitely - while Wizard spells, and an awful lot of the "cool moves" in fourth edition are limited use.
Still, if that's what you want to do - take Reflex Training/Gets an immediate free attack when the character succeeds on a special combat move that does not otherwise allow one. That gets you what you want for the price of one Feat, and well worth if for someone who wants to use a lot of special combat maneuvers - and the Feat requirement explains why everyone isn't doing it.
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Special moves in 4E are also all powers - IOW, if you don't have them, you can't make the special move. Not a good idea IMO.
I had suggested this very thing before. Either as a general aspect of the feat, or as a unique function of the Fighter (giving him something over other combat heavy classes).
That way you can say "Well, the Barbarian does more damage, but the Fighter can sunder that guy's weapon while doing his damage", etc.
You could also do this two ways...
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Fighter ability: If you land a successful attack and deal damage, you can immediately roll a CMB check at a -X penalty to attempt a Maneuver.
Improved Feats: If you succeed at your Maneuver, you can make an additional attack roll to damage the target. This does not trigger the Fighter's ability to perform a Maneuver.
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This way, a Fighter with the Improved feats will still want to try doing the Maneuver first to get a better chance at doing it, but can always opt to simply do damage and potentially pull off a Maneuver the rest of the time.
One of the few things I do like about 4E is the fact that you can do all these special moves and still deal damage to your opponent. In 3E, that's rarely the case.
The character who trips an opponent (with Improved Trip), gets to attack the opponent he fells.
The character who disarms an opponent (with Improved Disarm), doesn't. Why?
The character who bull rushes an opponent across the room (with Improved Bull Rush) doesn't do anything but move his foe - maybe only 5 feet. Why doesn't he get to do any damage?
The character who grapples an opponent (with Improved Grapple) has to wait a round (or hope he's got multiple attacks) before he can attempt to start wailing on a foe he's got a hold of. Why can't he deal damage (like most creatures with Improved Grab) as he grabs his opponent?
And so on...
Actually, the Pathfinder rules are even worse than you state!
- Improved Trip doesn't give you a bonus attack any longer
- Even if you have multiple attacks, you can't deal damage with a grapple on your first turn (since it takes a standard action, not an "attack action"). Exception: creatures with Improved Grab/Constrict do damage as normal, I think.
Me thinks, Kaisoku had a good Point:
Just give the Fighter a Classfeature, that lets him use a special move as part of a full attack.
- If he wants to hit with the maneuver, he will use it first.
- If he wants to hit with damage, he will use it with a lower attack bonus.
Special moves in 4E are also all powers - IOW, if you don't have them, you can't make the special move. Not a good idea IMO.
Not entirely; in 4E, anyone can Bull Rush to move someone a space, but the classes have powers that let them effectively push someone a space and he still does damage. (the Rogue's Positioning strike comes to mind, as does Reaving Strike, which allows you trip and do damage in the same action)
In 3E, that would be the difference between, say using a trip attack vs. using Improved trip. I'd just like to see this carried over so that someone who drops a feat on specializing in these types of moves doesn't have to give up their ability to deal damage to do this special move.
And it saddens me that Pathfinder is taking this ability away (from the fighter), instead of adding to it.
Me thinks, Kaisoku had a good Point:
Just give the Fighter a Classfeature, that lets him use a special move as part of a full attack.
- If he wants to hit with the maneuver, he will use it first.
- If he wants to hit with damage, he will use it with a lower attack bonus.
This is probably the best way, short of doing a "number of times per day" like Stunning Fist.