...so they could add as much product to the Realms "brand" makes certain amount of sense from their perspective.As always, you make a good point (no issues with your post). New thought: Do we really need to appreciate the perspective of people who think in the terms you've listed ("gotta add more product to that brand")?
Thanks. Just trying to inject a little educated guesswork into the conspiricy theories, emotional reactions, and hyperbole floating around. ;-P
Appreciate? Well, that's rather irrelevant to WotC, judging from their actions since 4e was announced. I think that the only "customer feedback" they'd notice would be their bottom line.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Appreciate? Well, that's rather irrelevant to WotC, judging from their actions since 4e was announced. I think that the only "customer feedback" they'd notice would be their bottom line.
Dragon Magic was an example of this IIRC. Marketing realized that "Dragon" and "Magic" are their two biggest selling keywords. They just crammed a bunch of stull into Dragon Magic and put out a book.
Much to my surprise, it was a good book if you had bought the various Complete books.
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Is there some precedent that could allow 3PPs to produce non-spellplague timeline realms materials?
I'm no expert, but judging by what Paizo can and can't use in Golarion, I'd say the answer is no.
For instance, it's okay to use something that was derived from real-world mythology. Tiamat is an example of this, being derived from a Babylonian deity (or maybe it was Sumerian, I don't remember exact details offhand). Thus, you can use the name Tiamat. Ditto the names of major devils, like Asmodeus. This sort of stuff is fair game for anyone - it's not something that a particular author invented.
What you can't do is directly make use of something that someone else did create. Using the Planescape setting is out. Creating an adventure set in a extraplanar city called Sigil, which is ruled by the mysterious Lady of Pain, etc, isn't going to fly either, even if you never say it's Planescape, because everyone will realize it is.
Probably the best anyone can do is create modules that will fit in a generic setting that matches the themes of the Realms, and avoids using any custom Realms-only stuff. You might be able to get away with a town that has a temple to the "God of the Sun" if you never state anything more than that, and otherwise make it a completely generic religion. Yes, FR players will know it's easily replaced by Lathander - but then, anyone running core could just as easily drop in Pelor instead.
There's not WotC conspiracy here beyond the fact that their target demographic has shifted decisively to the 12-18 crowd. In that, they are following along with pretty much the entire entertainment industry over the past few years.
15-year-old gamers aren't interested in keeping track of continuity dating back to before they were born...so they nuked the Realms and are starting over from scratch. They know they're going to lose most of their existing fans, but that is a calculated decision. Across our entire society, the prevailing current marketing thought is that it's acceptable to lose ten 40-year-old customers if you gain five teenaged ones.
It's a strange phenomenon...as increasing life expectancies make the average age of our society older and older, marketing has been targeting consistently younger and younger audiences.
Our generation spoils our kids to a degree than no other generation ever has before...we spend far more on our kids' entertainment than we do on our own.
I still believe that kids are not going to be willing to spend $40 per book on a paper game setting in this post-literate age, and that the 4e Realms will crash and burn.
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""""""the prevailing current marketing thought is that it's acceptable to lose ten 40-year-old customers if you gain five teenaged ones."""""
Moar like loose ten 40 year old customers if you gain 20 teenaged ones,
the fringe benefits of those teenagers b***&ing less and buying more are just an added bonus really.
You really believe that the marketing departments are trying to lose money? No, they are trying to make it. Moral of the story old fuddy duddies who are comfortable with the stuff they have don't buy as much as you all seem to think you do.
Logos
Yeah that policy has really worked out great for Gw.
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There's not WotC conspiracy here beyond the fact that their target demographic has shifted decisively to the 12-18 crowd. In that, they are following along with pretty much the entire entertainment industry over the past few years.
15-year-old gamers aren't interested in keeping track of continuity dating back to before they were born...so they nuked the Realms and are starting over from scratch. They know they're going to lose most of their existing fans, but that is a calculated decision. Across our entire society, the prevailing current marketing thought is that it's acceptable to lose ten 40-year-old customers if you gain five teenaged ones.
It's a strange phenomenon...as increasing life expectancies make the average age of our society older and older, marketing has been targeting consistently younger and younger audiences.
Our generation spoils our kids to a degree than no other generation ever has before...we spend far more on our kids' entertainment than we do on our own.
I still believe that kids are not going to be willing to spend $40 per book on a paper game setting in this post-literate age, and that the 4e Realms will crash and burn.
"4gotten Realmz" won't crash because it will be made into a video game shortly (I don't have any proof, but more than likely).
So what does everyone think? Will 4e Realms be a huge success?
Have we underestimated WotC's marketing department? Despite all the trends that would seem to be working against paper & pencil games, have they returned the days when anything with a D&D logo on it was an automatic moneymaker?
Are most existing Realms fans OK with this total reboot of the setting?
I guess I must really be an old fart. And there's never been a time when American culture was so hostile to the very concept of old farts.
"I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me. It'll happen to you too." -- Grandpa Simpson
So what does everyone think? Will 4e Realms be a huge success?
Have we underestimated WotC's marketing department? Despite all the trends that would seem to be working against paper & pencil games, have they returned the days when anything with a D&D logo on it was an automatic moneymaker?
Are most existing Realms fans OK with this total reboot of the setting?
I guess I must really be an old fart. And there's never been a time when American culture was so hostile to the very concept of old farts.
"I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me. It'll happen to you too." -- Grandpa Simpson
I think it'll be a success. Maybe not as big as it could have been, but it's hard to really figure these things out. Right now though, I think anything released for 4E is going to sell pretty well, since the market is completely absent any material for it. Would 4E FR succeed several years from now, once there are many other settings/books out for it? Too hard to judge.
Cheers! :)
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So what does everyone think? Will 4e Realms be a huge success?
Have we underestimated WotC's marketing department? Despite all the trends that would seem to be working against paper & pencil games, have they returned the days when anything with a D&D logo on it was an automatic moneymaker?
Are most existing Realms fans OK with this total reboot of the setting?
I guess I must really be an old fart. And there's never been a time when American culture was so hostile to the very concept of old farts.
"I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me. It'll happen to you too." -- Grandpa Simpson
#1) probably
#2) maybe, maybe not
#3) no, i am not happy with the changes
WotC pretty much lost me as a customer through their marketing campaign, i don't like being told that i've been screwing around for thirty years not having fun. what they're doing to the 4e realms is just another nail in the coffin...
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#1) probably#2) maybe, maybe not
#3) no, i am not happy with the changes
WotC pretty much lost me as a customer through their marketing campaign, i don't like being told that i've been screwing around for thirty years not having fun. what they're doing to the 4e realms is just another nail in the coffin...
D'Oh! I had a nice post, but gone it is. Needless to say I mostly agree with Derek's points, except I am more willing to bet that WotC will find more ground with new players than he is. In other words, I think it will do as well as WotC is expecting.
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Can you spoiler-post the entry here? Can not log into Gleemax from work.-Read this then http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1073327
-Some people in Canada got the 4E FRCG yesterday.
18DELTA
WotC boards were down for "Extended unscheduled maintenance" last time I looked.
There are a couple of threads on it at EnWorld, if that's any good for you. Someone posted the complete list of deities. The non-human ones have pretty much all been reduced to sidekick status except for Moradin.
Can you imagine having Garl Glittergold as your "assistant"? You'd need a strong sense of humour and a lot of patience.
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There's not WotC conspiracy here beyond the fact that their target demographic has shifted decisively to the 12-18 crowd. In that, they are following along with pretty much the entire entertainment industry over the past few years.
15-year-old gamers aren't interested in keeping track of continuity dating back to before they were born...so they nuked the Realms and are starting over from scratch. They know they're going to lose most of their existing fans, but that is a calculated decision. Across our entire society, the prevailing current marketing thought is that it's acceptable to lose ten 40-year-old customers if you gain five teenaged ones.
It's a strange phenomenon...as increasing life expectancies make the average age of our society older and older, marketing has been targeting consistently younger and younger audiences.
Our generation spoils our kids to a degree than no other generation ever has before...we spend far more on our kids' entertainment than we do on our own.
I still believe that kids are not going to be willing to spend $40 per book on a paper game setting in this post-literate age, and that the 4e Realms will crash and burn.
Let's hope so. The product line becoming a dismal failure is the only message that WotC will listen too. They seem to have lost touch with the fact that the customer is always right.
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the fringe benefits of those teenagers b%&!#ing less and buying more are just an added bonus really.
If the teenagers these days are making more money than us 40 year olds, I'm gonna start mugging them...
And if you know anything about marketing, ad execs *want* their customers talking about their product. As the movie guys say (with their manufactured 'controversies' about actors in rehab or whatever), 'there is no such thing as bad publicity.'
The complainers are the ones who cared enough to have an opinion and didn't just mutter 'boring' and decide never to buy another product. The people you describe as b%&!#ing are the ones who start up fansites devoted to the game and buy *every single product* and become the AR collector (or the compleatist, as they used to call us, which I like better). It's not actually evil to want something to be *better.* To ask for some ketchup on those fries or to suggest that splashing some tomato sauce and cheese on that flat piece of bread might make it tastier and then hey, you've invented pizza! It's how the world works. We see something, and we think, 'this isn't bad, but it could be better with X...' We tinker. We tailor. We tweak. Some people don't, and are content with whatever is handed to them, but mayo on white bread gets a little old after awhile and the rest of us like to spice things up and season them to taste.
If you're only in it for the short-term, fine, appeal to people who will come and go, buy a single product and then move on. But if you want a long-term product line, you need to cater to the *devoted* fans, not just the one-time buyers. And some of those devoted fans, like, say, Mike Mearls or Monte Cook, go on to work for the company!
But, since WotC has stated that they are making only a few books for each setting, and then not supporting them further, they have clearly decided that they aren't going for the long-term sales strategy.
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"4gotten Realmz" won't crash because it will be made into a video game shortly (I don't have any proof, but more than likely).
One of the great sadnesses of my time is that Dungeons & Dragons Online was so hollow. After years of EverQuest and Dark Ages and whatever, I would have loved to see a version of online D&D that captured the magic.
It's the grand-daddy of the genre, and I'm sure that EQ wouldn't have had classes like the Paladin, Druid, Ranger, Bard and Monk without D&D as a base. (Particularly not ones as similar thematically to the D&D versions of those classes!) It seemed like a license to print money.
Then again, I thought that an online Star Wars game would also be a license to print money, and that got even more spectacularly pooched.
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If you're only in it for the short-term, fine, appeal to people who will come and go, buy a single product and then move on. But if you want a long-term product line, you need to cater to the *devoted* fans, not just the one-time buyers. And some of those devoted fans, like, say, Mike Mearls or Monte Cook, go on to work for the company!
I believe Lisa Stevens has mentioned this was essentially her sales pitch to Lucasfilm about the Star Wars licencing. They were doubtful, but the end result was huge $$$ from mature collectors.
Needless to say, I spent a hefty chunk on WotC in my day. After the announcement of 4th Edition, I kept buying 3rd Edition stuff and also started buying Paizo. Now I don't buy from WotC (except for select minis from Paizo.com when a new set comes out) and spend more on Paizo per month than I ever did on WotC. I'll phrase my spending like this - WotC current release schedule would leave me with money in my pocket if I spent what I used to on their stuff. Whoops.
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Moral of the story old fuddy duddies who are comfortable with the stuff they have don't buy as much as you all seem to think you do.
We all know PAIZO is more in touch with the gaming community than wotc. The PAIZO equation breaks through all the Machiavellian crap you seem to believe in, Logos. They've come up with a monthly subscription to p&p d&d! I know for a fact I outspend any other demographic!
All: Let's not believe the hype. The theory of generational history teaches that a generation is often mischaracterized by the loudest 20% of their population, pulling 20% from the left and from the right to form the "perceived" 80% of the generation. All of that aside, I refuse to feel like a "fuddy duddie" - I most certainly am not. I refuse to be hostile to the younger generation - they are some of the most awesome people I've met. I refuse to be made to feel second-class (how dare anyone talk about marketing as though they can just forget us!), and OUR GENERATION WILL NOT BE 4GOTTEN!
3.5 NEVER DIES! (Don't Be 4Gotten)
Speak loudly with your consumer dollar.
If the teenagers these days are making more money than us 40 year olds, I'm gonna start mugging them...
It's not that they're *making* more, it's that they have more to spend. Mortgages, utility bills, car payments, insurance premiums, grocery bills, fuel costs, taxes, credit card bills, and medical expenses are all pretty much foreign concepts to them. Roughly 100% of the money they get, they can and do spend on entertainment. Plus, there's no shortage of parents willing to fork over any amount of money necessary to stop their kids from pestering them (this is nothing new, of course).
It's clear that the Realms is now being considered in the same way the World of Greyhawk was in 3.x. It's the default prefab setting for the new edition, which means it has to be stripped of everything that doesn't conform to the core game, and its philosophy.
It's kind of like when an old country highway gets converted into part of an interstate. All the old charming roadside attractions...the bar & grill, the old country trading post, the World's Biggest Ball of Twine... get barricaded off and left to die so the highway can conform to the national standard of nothing but grassy margins, billboards, and designated exits every 3 miles.
That means, of course, that if 4e itself is a financial success, the 4e Realms can be a success without having to attract many existing Realms fans. It just needs to attract those gamers who bought 4e and now want a prefab setting to put their games in.
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But when did "our" game go from being our game to being a shifting commodity as ubiquitous as flashy Brittney Spears Headlines? I mean, is this the point at which d&d "sold out?"
For those who understand, is this the R.E.M. produces "Monster" moment?
Is this the end of underground and the beginning of mainstream?
Is the formerly shunned counter-culture, now become the counter-mainstream-counter-culture???
What the hell?
Does anyone know how much of the realms was wotc's IP, and how much could still be developed under OGL? I've enjoyed Candlekeeps additional stories, content, and adventure material. Is there some precedent that could allow 3PPs to produce non-spellplague timeline realms materials?
All of the Realms is closed content. Some materials that originated in the FR (spells, magic items, monsters, etc.) that migrated into the core game might be open, but the setting itself is completely closed IP.
That applies to commercial products, but since WotC took over the game they have allowed people to create non-profit fan sites and "netbooks" dealing with the Realms, as long as they aren't used for financial gain. I myself made a 3e site detailing Ixinos, the Amazon Island (briefly mentioned in the old "Gold & Glory" supplement). I also participated in the Arylon Project, which back in the waning days of 2e detailed a new city in the Realms with "Living City" style contributions from various people, and with the blessing of Ed Greenwood and Steve Schend.
With WotC saying they're about to come out with new guidelines for fan sites, I have no idea what will become of that policy.
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I myself made a 3e site detailing Ixinos, the Amazon Island (briefly mentioned in the old "Gold & Glory" supplement). I also participated in the Arylon Project, which back in the waning days of 2e detailed a new city in the Realms with "Living City" style contributions from various people, and with the blessing of Ed Greenwood and Steve Schend.
I'm familiar with Arylon, though I never liked the location chosen for it (but the stuff was good)...
Is your site on Ixinos still up? If so, you have a link you can share?
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
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It's the default prefab setting for the new edition, which means it has to be stripped of everything that doesn't conform to the core game, and its philosophy.
@Charles Evans 25 - I should have referenced Andrew's quote (above) when making my R.E.M. sells-out comment (also above). My point, poorly made, was to ask when did our beloved game become something that would be "stripped" to "conform"???
That of course, led me down the path of thinking how when underground bands, like R.E.M. went mainstream - a lot of what was happening was the music industry was altering their musical sound to conform to more traditional pop sounding music (and thus potentially more profitable $$$). In the same way, when I hear Andrew say our beloved setting was stripped down to become the new pre-fab edition or whatever, I was horrified that what was once so open to the muse and creative expressions now falls in a category of "conforming" for the purpose of more money ($ales).
Is your site on Ixinos still up? If so, you have a link you can share?
Here it is. I really should update it a bit. The character stat blocks are still early 3.0 format, and suffer from the lack of rules clarity around that time. Also, some of the prehistory of Ixinos is now contradicted by more recent official canon (e.g., there wouldn't have been a large temple to Isis in Jhaamdath during its final years.)
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For those who understand, is this the R.E.M. produces "Monster" moment?
sorry, i consider the REM "sell-out" moment to be the second they left I.R.S. for warner bros.
and the analogue for me is when TSR put l. williams in charge.
sure, there was a brief respite in the early WotC days, but, well, that didn't last long...
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i consider the REM "sell-out" moment to be the second they left I.R.S. for warner bros.
I wish they hadn't 'sold out' and gotten commercial airtime, because I could have gone my entire life without hearing Losing My Religion (or having to play Orange Crush, which I loathe with the passion of a thousand burning nuns, on Rock Band to unlock new content).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Wow, this has wandered off...
*hands Pax some of my zoloft.*
3.5 is dead. OGL is still growing, but that's semantics.
The problems I have with 4gotten realms are legion, but what happens to it now, like *sigh* Eberron I fear, are beyond me.
Paizo is listening to their fanbase, and trying to grow that fanbase. They're securing their future by
1) Producing top of the line production value products.
2) Making sure that an OGL engine survives.
3) Learning from their (and WotC's and everyone else's) mistakes.
4) Making more modest promises (Season 0 and its features vs. DDI) that they can deliver.
5) Making generic products (Item cards, map packs, flip mats are all universal).
6) Giving perks both minor (Pathfinder Superscriber) and major (PDFs for subscribers!)
7) Likely 100 other things we don't know about.
What they're doing better than nearly anyone else though, is communicating.
The reason they commandeered the FR as the "default" 4e setting rather than create a new one is that FR has 20 years of marketing history behind it... 20 years of best-selling novels and game products, even if those are now all irrelevant. It's a household name among gamers. Even if the new FR material bears little resemblance to what came before. (Kind of like coming up with a pay-for-download music service and calling it "Napster.")
WotC knows *some* existing FR fans will stick with the setting. Maybe a minority of them, but more than they'd get with a brand-new setting without a "storied history." Those who see the FR as a set of "crunchy tools" in which to run a game will have an easier time switching over than those who see it as a source of "fluffy stories" to enjoy.
The "return of Abeir" element is a (hamfisted) way to introduce new 4e elements that are completely foreign to the past Realms, while still maintaining some continuity via the remaining "Toril" areas (mainly Waterdeep and The North). The 100-year-jump was a way to clear out most of the high-level NPC's who might overshadow the mighty 1st-level superhero PC's in the hyper-munchkinized environment of 4e. The exceptions being those characters who are still useful as trade dress or for selling novels (Drizzt, Elminster).
Paizo is listening to their fanbase, and trying to grow that fanbase. They're securing their future by
1) Producing top of the line production value products.
2) Making sure that an OGL engine survives.
3) Learning from their (and WotC's and everyone else's) mistakes.
4) Making more modest promises (Season 0 and its features vs. DDI) that they can deliver.
5) Making generic products (Item cards, map packs, flip mats are all universal).
6) Giving perks both minor (Pathfinder Superscriber) and major (PDFs for subscribers!)
7) Likely 100 other things we don't know about.What they're doing better than nearly anyone else though, is communicating.
Quoted For Truth :)
All I can add to Matthew's list is that Paizo proves - every single day - that a business can be run successfully without losing touch with the 'human' element.
To put it another way - I know that there is an account number of some kind attached to my name in Paizo's databases. But Paizo has never made me feel like just 'that number'. Not once. That kind of behavior doesn't buy loyalty...it earns it.
Okay - let's wander back to the Realms now! ;)
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
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Paizo is listening to their fanbase, and trying to grow that fanbase. They're securing their future by
1) Producing top of the line production value products.
2) Making sure that an OGL engine survives.
3) Learning from their (and WotC's and everyone else's) mistakes.
4) Making more modest promises (Season 0 and its features vs. DDI) that they can deliver.
5) Making generic products (Item cards, map packs, flip mats are all universal).
6) Giving perks both minor (Pathfinder Superscriber) and major (PDFs for subscribers!)
7) Likely 100 other things we don't know about.What they're doing better than nearly anyone else though, is communicating.
Esteemed friend. I agree with all of your excellent points about PAIZO. I accept your Zoloft, but wonder whether you'd recommend the some for Logos? As for 3.5, you know by now I am considering all things d20, third edition, etc., 3.5. Most materials that we can still find available are compatible with the "revised" third edition rules a la 3.5. In the description of Pathfinder RPG, 3.5 is mentioned as something to build on, to make use of your vast 3.5 collection, and it is mentioned that PRPG makes 3.5 even easier in some ways. If that's not a profound statement that 3.5 has not died, I don't know what is. (But I am willing, for argument's sake, to concede that we may be talking semantics as you mention). Also, I believe in the works of Monte Cook and others who have built so much around the 3.5 system, and I believe in the backward compatibility option (#1) of doing very little to just on-the-fly-adjust 3.5 matierials for use with Pathfinder RPG.
I consider, for example, Latin, to be a dead language because nobody speaks it anymore - not, because other languages have evolved or been derived from latin. Roughly speaking, 3.5 is still in play at Gen Con!!! 3.5 is still in play on Monday nights at my house, and all across the world vis a vis most d20 settings built on the revised third edition. As such, I hold still that 3.5 never dies...
As such, I hold still that 3.5 never dies...
it just fades away.
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i consider the REM "sell-out" moment to be the second they left I.R.S. for warner bros.I wish they hadn't 'sold out' and gotten commercial airtime, because I could have gone my entire life without hearing Losing My Religion (or having to play Orange Crush, which I loathe with the passion of a thousand burning nuns, on Rock Band to unlock new content).
whereas, had they not sold out, you probably wouldn't mind playing "radio free europe" to unlock new concerts (great song, imo)
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@Houstonderek - Yeah, although I haven't played the rock star video games... you make an excellent point that accessibility across the globe increased after a band sold-out. I wonder if we'll see dnd beasties on cereal boxes now, ... minis as Captain Crunch prizes at the bottom of the box? ... maybe there will be Larue Halloween costumes, and metallic and plastic beholder lunch boxes?
Somewhere in Japan, a whole generation of kids can grow up with Kobold plush toys...
In the case of dungeons and dragons & the forgotten realms, I handn't anticipated that such a hobby would also fall victim to this sort of "sell-out" greed. I, perhaps naiively thought it would always somehow be goverened and distributed by those who cared more about the integrity of the story, the game's history, its traditions, and the "underground" feel in the sense of its purity.
Perhaps this is the inevitable evolution, and entropic destruction of the Realms that I just hadn't anticipated. Not destroyed legitimately by some fantastic story, but rather a contrived spellplague that seems the strong-handed will of a new hollywood or Vegas agent. Kind of like the way the Colonel ruined Elvis' career...
We all know PAIZO is more in touch with the gaming community than wotc. The PAIZO equation breaks through all the Machiavellian crap you seem to believe in, Logos. They've come up with a monthly subscription to p&p d&d! I know for a fact I outspend any other demographic!All: Let's not believe the hype. The theory of generational history teaches that a generation is often mischaracterized by the loudest 20% of their population, pulling 20% from the left and from the right to form the "perceived" 80% of the generation. All of that aside, I refuse to feel like a "fuddy duddie" - I most certainly am not. I refuse to be hostile to the younger generation - they are some of the most awesome people I've met. I refuse to be made to feel second-class (how dare anyone talk about marketing as though they can just forget us!), and OUR GENERATION WILL NOT BE 4GOTTEN!
3.5 NEVER DIES! (Don't Be 4Gotten)
Speak loudly with your consumer dollar.we, actually we don't all know paizo is more in touch with the gaming community than wotc. Paizo seems pretty determined now to find a niche market rather than attempt to grow with the gaming community (wherever it may go).
They have come up with a subscription for dungeon and dragon magazine oh noes, They have come up with a subscription for internet services oh noes. This is not pnp rpg's. You are exagerating and confusing what is actually happening with what you feel like is happening. You know how I know its not like that, Cause I'm running the damn game and I'm not paying them no monthly fee to do it.
You know for someone who doesn't feel like a fuddy duddy and refuses to be hostile to the younger gen , you are doing an A-Class job of f#**ing it up you, cause this, this is hostility, (How Dare!, I refuse!, I know! ) This is the land of the fuddy duddy, welcome!
Ultimately it comes down to consumer dollars, its whats going to decide this fight, and whereas your flagship effort is macking on something like 10% of the whole pie, 4th is...
Love the way you pull figures out ... the air ... as if they're somehow in any way valid there. Still, even hypothetically assuming for a moment they are what you're saying there is with 4e WotC have just hacked off one tenth of their customer base. Hardly a desirable thing to happen.
I'm sure Paizo will be quite happy to take that much from WotC, of course they may take more.
Think about this for a moment, with the release of 4e and it's mishandling of many aspects of that release, WotC have effectively created an aspiring rival that even the most devout WotC supporters accept is snaffling significant chunks of WotC cheese.
And we're meant to believe this is a success for them??